Just curious if anyone has done anything like that so I can maybe talk to you about some ideas I've had and things I've whipped up here in the garage.
Just curious if anyone has done anything like that so I can maybe talk to you about some ideas I've had and things I've whipped up here in the garage.
Hey now... no politics!
... but seriously, I believe one of the GRM people developed some camera equipment, and someone else on here created some sort of medical tool. As far as mechanics tools... don't know. You might be best getting a patent first, then maybe shopping it to a tool manufacturer.
shhh... I do happen to work for a tool manufacturer. I can ask around a bit (I am not in the office of course so it may be a bit more difficult). Can you give a general idea of it's use and expense / difficulty to produce?
We do it fairly often.
In reply to aircooled :
That's one of the problems, I think both of the ideas I have may be too simple to patent. Simple enough that if I were to describe it pretty much anyone with CAD could whip one up in 10 minutes (outside of loading the program.) A version of the more complex one seems to be on OTC's website, so that may be out. Despite that, I could see people buying them as an easily disposable tool at harbor freight.
I can 3D print the simpler one in 45 minutes, injection molding would be way under the cost per Lego brick. Ideally you'd sell them in a pack of 4-6 with different sizes. I could also see a higher end version of them being made out of hardened steel or whatnot to prevent throwing them out.
I have a couple patents for decades ago that really did not make me money.....
all a patent does is give you the right to sue the offender on your dime ! So think of that first :)
Will your item still be wanted in a year or 2 when the patent goes thru ( if it does)
The item we made was a neat clip to mount your car phone and a holder , but when we did the prior art search there were many things that are close to my idea from 80 years before ,
And the Chinese and Indians will not care about your patent and will copy it ,
What would I do ? Spend my money making the item and selling it , Think of a catchy name and Trademark it and anything close to it ,
Go to https://patents.google.com , do a search and see what Classifications your product is , then search that Classification and see what else is like your product and will be prior art.
Look up Prior Art , it is something already known and you cannot patent anything already known . so no reinventing the wheel !
I hope this helps.....
Mr_Asa said:In reply to aircooled :
...I could see people buying them as an easily disposable tool at harbor freight...
Ahem.... in that case I might be able to find out if your guess is true.
I will ask around. I really don't know how you would talk about it if you can't describe it, or how you would protect yourself if you do describe it, maybe someone else does.
Simple plastic stuff can be knocked off by anyone with a 3D printer. But that's okay, part of what you're selling is quality and convenience. We have a bunch of printed products that have free equivalents (of widely varying quality) available on Thingverse, but we still sell them as fast as we can poop them out. People pay for the debuggged model, for the quality of the print and for convenience. Also, 3D printers are not as widespread as you might think.
If it's a really good idea, it will get knocked off. So it's up to you to implement it better than anyone else.
In reply to Trent (Generally supportive dude) :
Neat! Thanks!
Keith Tanner said:We have a bunch of printed products that have free equivalents (of widely varying quality) available on Thingverse, but we still sell them as fast as we can poop them out. People pay for the debuggged model, for the quality of the print and for convenience. Also, 3D printers are not as widespread as you might think.
Bingo, and that's how you set yourself apart.
I used to work for Indian people that shipped tools from here to factories in China to be copied. We would sell them until a lawsuit was threatened, then dump the excess inventory on one of those guys that sells pallet loads of crap at a massive discount out of a warehouse.
Example: I shipped an oscillating multi-tool from a well known orange brand to the factory in China. Three samples, each of a different design came back. One was in Chicago Electric colours, one was in Power Fist colours and one was in the colours we usually used.
This taught me that you want to get your product to market and sell as much of it as fast as you can before China copies and undercuts you.
ShawnG said:This taught me that you want to get your product to market and sell as much of it as fast as you can before China copies and undercuts you.
Yep make some money while you can , the market moves too fast ..................
and they were all copies of a German Fein oscillating multi-tool , I wonder if there were any patents on the Fein tool , or if they had run out .
And then there are "Parallel lives" I have had many ideas that I never made that someone else also thought about and made the same thing , or close to it.....
Good Luck and I hope you make zillions.....
In reply to californiamilleghia :
The Fein tool had been around for at least 5 years at that point, probably longer.
Bosch was upset with us over some self-feeding spade bits we had that looked remarkably like theirs as well.
Thankfully the combination miter saw / table saw unit turned out to be a dismal failure. That thing was incredibly unsafe.
I developed a garage/welding tool, made and sold a version myself as a trial run, then had them injection molded.
I sold those on Amazon (and other places) and eventually sold the whole deal to another company.
So the best thing to do is 1. Be first to market. 2. Get a good name and trademark it. 3. Market it quickly and effectively 4. Move on to the next idea
My first version was 'stolen' by Americans :)
Someone in China makes a version and is on Amazon using my trademarked name in their advertising. They (amazon) won't do anything or even respond.
I didn't patent or even try...patents are for the big boys now or for vanity in some cases...a lawyer will take your money for sure.
But I don't think it was patentable anyway.
I sought some advice on practical machinist and valued it:
This entire game is about distribution.
If you are going to sell something that makes you 10 cents net on the sale, you need to make and sell a E36 M3 ton of them very quickly; as in faster than the China competition can get their version out the door. Patents will not protect you. You need to be in and out of the game with your money in the bank before China can get to the dock,
The first time you do this, you are going to get massacred. Probably out a lot of $$$. The good news is that you will also learn a lesson that might lead you to success on a second venture. This is a lot like learning to box, you are going to get beat to death before your learn the art.
NOHOME said:This entire game is about distribution.
If you are going to sell something that makes you 10 cents net on the sale, you need to make and sell a E36 M3 ton of them very quickly; as in faster than the China competition can get their version out the door. Patents will not protect you. You need to be in and out of the game with your money in the bank before China can get to the dock,
The first time you do this, you are going to get massacred. Probably out a lot of $$$. The good news is that you will also learn a lesson that might lead you to success on a second venture. This is a lot like learning to box, you are going to get beat to death before your learn the art.
100% agree.....
Also talk is cheap "Buy American" comes off your tongue very quick .......BUT......
If the none American part is even 10-20% cheaper you will lose 50% or more of your sales......
As said above , its a good lesson and you will learn many things you never thought of which will help in your next product ,
Good Luck , ask questions here and to anyone making stuff
We had an issue at work and were asked for ideas to fix it, my then boss and I drew an incredibly complex tool that we knew would work but would be a major pain in the Butt to use and make. The company made 100 of the tools which worked as intended until the manufacturer of the product realized they had an issue and changed how it was made. The funny thing is that you can buy that tool on Amazon direct from China. It was an internal tool and I've heard of 0 other companies developing similar so yeah, China will copy whatever you come up with.
Forgot to mention, a design patent CAN be useful if it protects what you make by dint of what it LOOKS like. They are easier to get and MUCH cheaper than a utility patent. Like $2500 rather than $25,000
IMO and professional experience the time, $ and mental energy spent to secure a patent is not worth it to the average Joe or Jane. Normally Joe/Jane wants to a) see their idea proven in the market, b) make some money off it, c) feel proud of what they accomplished in a & b.
As others have mentioned - a patent isn't useful unless you have the war chest to defend it. Most average people do not have the war chest. And there are many sad stories of people who have wasted what assets they did have only to watch it all still get infringed.
Get it to market, sell some, flip the product to a bigger player, enjoy the $'s you made off the flip.
Keith Tanner said:Simple plastic stuff can be knocked off by anyone with a 3D printer. But that's okay, part of what you're selling is quality and convenience. We have a bunch of printed products that have free equivalents (of widely varying quality) available on Thingverse, but we still sell them as fast as we can poop them out. People pay for the debuggged model, for the quality of the print and for convenience. Also, 3D printers are not as widespread as you might think.
If it's a really good idea, it will get knocked off. So it's up to you to implement it better than anyone else.
All of this right here.
I usually find myself making a tool or designing something when I am unsatisfied with what is out there. If I can buy it off the shelf, I will not bother printing. Material quality, robustness, tolerance, etc. are all far superior in an inj. molded or otherwise fabricated product. Plus the hassle and whatnot of a 3D printer. It isn't quite like the Xerox machine many people envision.
And yeah, someone else will knock it off, patent or not. Your best protection is the quality of your product. The undercutting battle is a race to the bottom.
Not just China stealing ideas & products. Americans will do it too. Big corporation people know the little guy can't afford lawyers so while they won't steal from other big corporations they have no problem stealing from the one man shop cottage industry type situation. It's happened to me in the past and will probably happen again.
I'm wandering around and looking at what others have done in the past. Unfortunately it looks like I may have found this in some obscure corner of McMaster Carr, but fortunately theirs are high end and all metal, as well as being the only place I've seen anything like it so there may be a place for a cheap version out there.
Still looking into it
I agree about first to market. Get in, make your sales and see what happens.
I have a few patents through different jobs and I don't know (don't think) any of them ever helped the company do anything but claim a bigger IP portfolio. I also had a job once where I had to evaluate businesses to purchase for my company. The first thing I did was review the patents and see if I had a way to make something do the same thing without infringing.
I designed an automotive tool called the Turnkey Tool circa 2001. It was a good idea at the time but the delay from design to distribution was a real drain on the inventor. It was also tough timing because traditional keys in the ignition and turning them was about to give way to the push button.
NYN
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