Apparently SpaceX is an OSHA-free chaos zone with a silly goal

Mr_Asa said:

Having been in the military, I never got a briefing that outlined not to do that.

Having been in the USAF...

The air force doesn't believe in seat belts? :)

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

Mr_Asa said:

Having been in the military, I never got a briefing that outlined not to do that.

Having been in the USAF...

The air force doesn't believe in seat belts? :)

 

I never remember being told I had to wear one cause thats already something you're supposed to do

alfadriver said:

bobzilla said:

 

That other thread is about a repeat offender, high on drugs making more poor choices. It has about as much to do with this as my butt and the moon.

Totally disagree,  you are JUST limiting your point to the specific story in the article.  If there is a core of negligence in a company that ends up killing their workers when they had no idea of that risk, there is relationship between the negligent drug using driver and the managers who are risking their employees.  Negligence is negligence.  

No, I didn't read the article.  But how many people are justifying the accident because of SpaceX is doing space travel which is high risk/high reward?  You even pointed out that space travel is high risk/high reward.  But that is completely irrelevant to the accident other than it's SpaceX and not Alfadriver Engineering Consultation.  

It's not as if space travel managers have not made really bad decisions that they should not have.  And it cost people's lives.  The poor choice in sending up the Challenger had the same effect on what the drug using driver guy did- it was a preventable choice that ended up killing innocent people. 

Forgive me that I have extrapolated some concern over SpaceX, given the launch that destroyed the launch tower (which could have easily killed the a passenger in that van), the claim that Elon's feelings prevents people from wearing neon colored safety clothing, and the rather easily stopped death of a person who climbed on a pile of stuff.  Others have extrapolated that space travel is dangerous, so we should expect this, so IMHO, extrapolating a concern of a pattern like this is fair.

I ver much don't understand why suggesting that Elon is not exactly working with a full deck is such a horrible thing, either.  He's not Nicola Tesla, nor is he Thomas Edison.  He's not done any of the actual tech- he's thrown his money as things and thankfully other people are super enthusiastic about EVs and space travel.

I'm done now, you can keep thinking this is all ok.  Go and worship at the feet of Musk.  He loves that.

So you didn't read the article and now you're throwing out insults because people did? Awesome. 

I bet if we look into this death involving a known OSHA violation we will find Mr Musk was behind it: 3M Knew Process Was Dangerous Before Fatal Accident, OSHA Says

The bad safety practices at one company do not excuse the bad safety practices at another.

In reply to Beer Baron :

I THINK he was joking 

Ran across a relevant article on the feasibility of space colonization that came out not long ago:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-we-even-have-babies-in-space-why-were-not-ready-for-life-off-planet/

The issue of reproduction is a big one that would mean any space colonies would be dependent on resupplies of people from Earth until it's solved, and the radiation space colonists would be exposed to could greatly reduce their usefulness as a "living gene bank."

I remember that there was an experiment in growing chicken embryos in space, and among the eggs that spent the most time in space terrible deformities resulted like the embryos simply not growing heads.

alfadriver said:

bobzilla said:

 

That other thread is about a repeat offender, high on drugs making more poor choices. It has about as much to do with this as my butt and the moon.

Totally disagree,  you are JUST limiting your point to the specific story in the article.  If there is a core of negligence in a company that ends up killing their workers when they had no idea of that risk, there is relationship between the negligent drug using driver and the managers who are risking their employees.  Negligence is negligence.  

No, I didn't read the article.  But how many people are justifying the accident because of SpaceX is doing space travel which is high risk/high reward?  You even pointed out that space travel is high risk/high reward.  But that is completely irrelevant to the accident other than it's SpaceX and not Alfadriver Engineering Consultation.  

It's not as if space travel managers have not made really bad decisions that they should not have.  And it cost people's lives.  The poor choice in sending up the Challenger had the same effect on what the drug using driver guy did- it was a preventable choice that ended up killing innocent people. 

Forgive me that I have extrapolated some concern over SpaceX, given the launch that destroyed the launch tower (which could have easily killed the a passenger in that van), the claim that Elon's feelings prevents people from wearing neon colored safety clothing, and the rather easily stopped death of a person who climbed on a pile of stuff.  Others have extrapolated that space travel is dangerous, so we should expect this, so IMHO, extrapolating a concern of a pattern like this is fair.

I ver much don't understand why suggesting that Elon is not exactly working with a full deck is such a horrible thing, either.  He's not Nicola Tesla, nor is he Thomas Edison.  He's not done any of the actual tech- he's thrown his money as things and thankfully other people are super enthusiastic about EVs and space travel.

I'm done now, you can keep thinking this is all ok.  Go and worship at the feet of Musk.  He loves that.

For me, there's an extra level of complication in my assessment as I judge people like Musk in a similar way to how I judge an edgy joke.

I'm more tolerant of an eccentric person or a joke that some will find offensive if they or it are really great.

If you tell a joke that isn't very funny or thought provoking and yet it hurts some people's feelings, I'd like to see the joke retired.

If on the other hand the joke makes an important point or contains a significant message but it also includes language that will offend some, my preference would be to let it stay out there.

For me its the same with people...if you're getting E36 M3 done, I'll tolerate you're being edgy.

I love that SpaceX exists.

Elon is a very flawed person, and personally responsible for significantly fostering and increasing hate against LGBTQIA+ folx in general, and trans folx especially. He's got real blood on his hands from that, nevermind a single work related accident.

In reply to ralleah :

This may be getting a bit off-topic but it's hard to ignore that Elon has become a lot more Henry Ford-like over the last few days in the worst way possible.

Worst of all, Elon seems to rapidly pick up new prejudices based on whoever recently got on his bad side. His transphobia/homophobia seems to have started after a falling out with a trans kid he has. He started to become very "anti-woke" after people started to criticize him for that (some pandemic-related issues played a role as well). His antisemitism seems to have started after the ADL published a study showing that hate speech had greatly increased on Twitter, causing them to lose a bunch of advertisers. When Elon gets into a beef with someone, he doesn't just hate that person's actions or even the specific person, he starts to hate everything about that person.

Meh.

I volunteered for the one way trip to Mars.

TL/DR anyways.

I'd leave tomorrow.

In reply to preach :

I'd probably get accidentally sent to Urnanus.

GameboyRMH said:

In reply to ralleah :

This may be getting a bit off-topic but it's hard to ignore that Elon has become a lot more Henry Ford-like over the last few days in the worst way possible.

Worst of all, Elon seems to rapidly pick up new prejudices based on whoever recently got on his bad side. His transphobia/homophobia seems to have started after a falling out with a trans kid he has. He started to become very "anti-woke" after people started to criticize him for that (some pandemic-related issues played a role as well). His antisemitism seems to have started after the ADL published a study showing that hate speech had greatly increased on Twitter, causing them to lose a bunch of advertisers. When Elon gets into a beef with someone, he doesn't just hate that person's actions or even the specific person, he starts to hate everything about that person.

This is BS. I also don't want to defend the guy because I don't much care for him, and there are plenty of reasons to not like him, but I don't appreciate your amateur analysis that calls him every current bad buzzword.

In reply to Opti :

It's much easier to hate rich people than to address the failings in your own life. 

In reply to bobzilla :

Even easier when you're just regurgitating hate from propagandists

RevRico said:

In reply to bobzilla :

Even easier when you're just regurgitating hate from propagandists

It's really easy to get swept up into the propo when it fits your leanings. It's really hard to look at it with a critical eye. 

In reply to Opti :

What about his analysis is wrong, though?

Hell, remember when he just randomly accused that cave diver of being a pedophile because the diver criticized his sub design?  The man lashes out and he seems to do it against people that criticize him or his products.

Mr_Asa said:

In reply to Opti :

What about his analysis is wrong, though?

Hell, remember when he just randomly accused that cave diver of being a pedophile because the diver criticized his sub design?  The man lashes out and he seems to do it against people that criticize him or his products.

that's human nature. People do that at every income level in every society. Is it right? Not really. It is just how some people handle negative criticism. I've worked with/for my fair share (and then some) of people like that. I mean, I used to be that way as well. It took time and effort to overcome that and not be that person.

Mr_Asa said:

In reply to Opti :

What about his analysis is wrong, though?

Hell, remember when he just randomly accused that cave diver of being a pedophile because the diver criticized his sub design?  The man lashes out and he seems to do it against people that criticize him or his products.

Yah, and I called my neighbor a dumbass yesterday. You are referencing him lashing out at a  single person.

The earlier "analysis" was accusing him of hating Jews, gays, and trans people. There is a big difference from lashing out at a single person and accusing someone of being bigoted against whole groups of people.

Quit making me defend that butthole. There are plenty of great reasons to criticize the man, without resorting to all the buzzword -phobias and -isms.

Opti said:

Mr_Asa said:

In reply to Opti :

What about his analysis is wrong, though?

Hell, remember when he just randomly accused that cave diver of being a pedophile because the diver criticized his sub design?  The man lashes out and he seems to do it against people that criticize him or his products.

Yah, and I called my neighbor a dumbassyesterday. You are referencing him lashing out at a  single person.

The earlier "analysis" was accusing him of hating Jews, gays, and trans people. There is a big difference from lashing out at a single person and accusing someone of being bigoted against whole groups of people.

Quit making me defend that butthole. There are plenty of great reasons to criticize the man, without resorting to all the buzzword -phobias and -isms.

My friend, I think you may not have been following what Musk has been saying lately on social media (and believe me, I applaud that. I only see it through osmosis while I'm looking at other stuff.)

He is... not being the guy Mr Rogers believed he could be.

In reply to Mr_Asa :

You are mistaken I have been following it. Unfortunately anything the man says makes it into the news cycle, so if you pay attention you see it 

I still don't think it's a fair criticism to call him a transphobe, homophobe, or antisemite. Id love to have this debate but I can't without wading very far into politics/culture war

In reply to Opti :

Fair enough. 

I don't think anyone would argue that Henry Ford wasn't antisemitic, yet I don't see how calling a post that basically reiterates the Great Replacement Theory "the actual truth" through an extremely famous Twitter account guaranteed to get international media attention is meaningfully less awful in effect than publishing an edition of The International Jew. And that tweet was just the worst part of a pattern of activity that shows that it wasn't some odd mistake.

On one hand Musk's not using Tesla showrooms to distribute his messaging, but on the other even one of his tweets had more reach than Ford ever could've dreamed of achieving with the media options available in his time.

Opti said:

Mr_Asa said:

In reply to Opti :

What about his analysis is wrong, though?

Hell, remember when he just randomly accused that cave diver of being a pedophile because the diver criticized his sub design?  The man lashes out and he seems to do it against people that criticize him or his products.

Yah, and I called my neighbor a dumbass yesterday. You are referencing him lashing out at a  single person.

The earlier "analysis" was accusing him of hating Jews, gays, and trans people. There is a big difference from lashing out at a single person and accusing someone of being bigoted against whole groups of people.

Quit making me defend that butthole. There are plenty of great reasons to criticize the man, without resorting to all the buzzword -phobias and -isms.

I am a trans woman. He's a transphobic misogynistic enabler of lies and falsehoods about us that directly lead to further violence against all trans folx. He's a known and proven bigot.

Why did YOU feel it necessary to step in and "defend that butthole"? Genuinely asking.

*sigh* well I'm clearly out. Have fun with this until its shut down.