Are we talking about all the E36 M3 getting shot down in US airspace lately?

No information to add, other than to note that if I was into hot air ballooning, I'd be very nervous right now! 

In reply to Turboeric :

In reply to Turboeric :

New market for IFF transponders.

In case anyone is interested in what the Chinese think (this is a Chinese state media website, so be wary if you are on a government computer):

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202302/1285375.shtml

Some highlights (classic Whataboutism):

The US has illegally flown its high-altitude balloons over Chinese airspace more than 10 times without permission since the beginning of last year and China had acted professionally in handling these incursions,

Yes, I am sure they would allow a US spy balloon to just wander over their country...

The US' frequent use of its armed forces to shoot down so-called unidentified objects only exposed its paranoia and hysteria, which also reflected its vulnerability, Chinese experts said.

Yes, much better to let these "weather balloons" collect as much info as they can...

The Chinese civilian unmanned airship flying into US airspace is an accident caused by force majeure, but the US' frequent firing of advanced missiles to shoot down unidentified flying objects is an excessive use of force, Wang said.

Yes, civilian... shall we go over the equipment that was found on it...

..."excessive use of force"?  Really?  Concerned about balloon abuse?

...then its mostly a lot more Whataboutism (made popular by the Soviets).  Which is interesting, because why would they be talking about spying, when this is a simple weather balloon?

If the Chinese wanted to prove us wrong they'd simply release all the details on the balloons and even alert us to others we may not know about. 

If they were smart, they'd do that even if they were spy balloons "hey see this sophisticated looking camera that looks like it could clearly image a military installation from 40k'? It's just a GoPro! Hahaha innocent weather ballooning for innocent TikTok!" 

In reply to 759NRNG :

I mean it's not like the Chinese intended for Covid to come over the Pacific.

Listening to the news radio today I heard that the British are saying they'd do everything they can to prevent Chinese balloons from flying over Britain.  Then I thought wait the balloons would have to go over North American first.  Nice PR move knowing that you won't have to back it up.

dculberson said:

Something like 110,000 Sidewinders have been made, and only a single digit percentage of them have been used. I think we can shoot them at balloons for a long, long time.

The prototype first flew in 1953 (AIM-9s are really old) I think some of them have aged out.

Stampie said:

Listening to the news radio today I heard that the British are saying they'd do everything they can to prevent Chinese balloons from flying over Britain.  Then I thought wait the balloons would have to go over North American first.  Nice PR move knowing that you won't have to back it up.

Only if you assume they have to be launched from the Chinese mainland.  Seems like it'd pretty simple to launch one off a cargo ship in the middle of the ocean.

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

Ok I guess I could accept that China has a fleet of balloon carriers all over the world or maybe just KISS principle it and launch from China into the jet stream and let it go around the world back to China.  

Stampie said:

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

Ok I guess I could accept that China has a fleet of balloon carriers all over the world or maybe just KISS principle it and launch from China into the jet stream and let it go around the world back to China.  

I doubt they need it to go back to China, could easily uplink to a satellite.  The ship would be useful if you wanted to spy on somewhere that the jet stream doesn't go, or that it goes through a hail of air-to-air missiles before it gets there.

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

Go back to China would be more of a maintaince thing in my mind.  Sorry I'm a fixer so I always think of what the easiest way to fix it if E36 M3 goes wrong.  But back to the KISS thing.  Launch from China.  Let the winds take them where they go with some directional control.  They fly around the world back to China.  If everything is good let it continue around again.  If module 2A452 that monitors freq 501mhz has failed then land it, repair, and then send back up. 

Or they could have ships travel all the way around the world to launch balloons.

Actually thinking more maybe they wouldn't need to get back to China.  Launch balloon from China.  Let it go around the world as long as it's useful.  Lose module 2A452 then who cares because it's still getting intel on the other 100 modules.  Once the balloon outlives it's usefulness then drop the payload over the ocean and the balloon goes somewhere that no one knows what it was.  Honestly the whole thing cost $50k.  berkeley it dump it and launch a replacement.

Stampie said:

Actually thinking more maybe they wouldn't need to get back to China.  Launch balloon from China.  Let it go around the world as long as it's useful.  Lose module 2A452 then who cares because it's still getting intel on the other 100 modules.  Once the balloon outlives it's usefulness then drop the payload over the ocean and the balloon goes somewhere that no one knows what it was.  Honestly the whole thing cost $50k.  berkeley it dump it and launch a replacement.

Yeah, it seems likely that they're disposable.  One trip across wherever, then chop the cable and drop it in the ocean where no one will find it.

Regarding the balloon shot down over YT Canada evidence is pointing to the balloon being launched by the noted spy agency the Northern Illinois Bottlecap Balloon Brigade. They had contact with the balloon on Friday while over Alaska with nit projected to enter Canada's airspace. They have declared it missing in action as of Saturday. My understanding is the US Ambassador to Canada may be called into Foreign Affairs as soon as tomorrow to answer questions as to this violation of Canada's airspace.

https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/aircraft-propulsion/hobby-clubs-missing-balloon-feared-shot-down-usaf

Easy analysis of the legality of shooting this down: https://youtu.be/P43wVDiZs8k

TL;DR - the U.S. is totally within its rights to shoot this down. It may be "bad form" and irksome if this was an inoccuous incident. It's very likely this was a mistake because baloons are notoriously poor methods of spying.

It's sort of like the equivalent of cutting limbs off a neighbor's tree that have grown over your fence line. 

Appleseed said:

The Air Force/Space Force/ FBI/CIA/NSA/NRO have learned all they can from them. Encrypted code, frequencies, origins, etc. With nothing more to gain, they can be dispatched with extreme prejudice.

One of the difficult things to suss out is, once you see somebody doing something, if it is more beneficial to stop them, or play dumb and see what else they are up to.

(say, I heard that the water purifier on Midway Island is down)

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

Stampie said:

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

Ok I guess I could accept that China has a fleet of balloon carriers all over the world or maybe just KISS principle it and launch from China into the jet stream and let it go around the world back to China.  

I doubt they need it to go back to China, could easily uplink to a satellite.  The ship would be useful if you wanted to spy on somewhere that the jet stream doesn't go, or that it goes through a hail of air-to-air missiles before it gets there.

It would be very interesting to sniff around to find out what EM emissions, if any, it has.  Maybe record them for analysis.

I am assuming that a (finger quote) "LAser" communications system might be impeded by the balloon in the way.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

Appleseed said:

The Air Force/Space Force/ FBI/CIA/NSA/NRO have learned all they can from them. Encrypted code, frequencies, origins, etc. With nothing more to gain, they can be dispatched with extreme prejudice.

One of the difficult things to suss out is, once you see somebody doing something, if it is more beneficial to stop them, or play dumb and see what else they are up to.

(say, I heard that the water purifier on Midway Island is down)

I am sure US intelligence would have highly preferred if it was never spotted by civilians and where able to track it, analyze it and shoot it down without anyone knowing.

This of course is assuming they don't have one already.  Knowing something is one thing, but them knowing you know something can make that info far less useful.

(The water purifier at AF is down you say?)

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

Stampie said:

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

Ok I guess I could accept that China has a fleet of balloon carriers all over the world or maybe just KISS principle it and launch from China into the jet stream and let it go around the world back to China.  

I doubt they need it to go back to China, could easily uplink to a satellite.  The ship would be useful if you wanted to spy on somewhere that the jet stream doesn't go, or that it goes through a hail of air-to-air missiles before it gets there.

It would be very interesting to sniff around to find out what EM emissions, if any, it has.  Maybe record them for analysis.

I am assuming that a (finger quote) "LAser" communications system might be impeded by the balloon in the way.

Nah, the balloon likely only blocks line of sight for 30 degrees or so around straight up, there's plenty of sky available to pick up a satellite at an angle between that and the horizon.

I don't know why they'd want to use laser communications, a directional radio antenna seems a lot easier and just as secure once you've got proper encryption on it.  The balloon isn't stealthy, so emissions control doesn't seem to be all that important.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

I see what you did there.

Some more info on this:

On the heels of the Chinese spy balloon hysteria, US fighter jets were launched to intercept and shoot down three other flying objects. It turns out they were all likely hobbyist pico balloons, there are literally dozens of them floating around the globe all the time, and they are 100% legal. One of the balloons was from the Northern Illinois Bottlecap Balloon Brigade (100% true name), who tried to tell the government what the objects were—to no avail. The US is now directing a review of procedures and developing “sharper rules” before shooting things down. Oops.

This is all scary and stupid in almost equal measure, that said the important thing I've never considered is that I'm not mature enough at 33 for a news story to contain the phrase "Wang said" without giving me the giggles.

New pic of the "weather ballon" from a U2: