Berkley you Costas...

Sorry if its a repost but... http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/12/06/bob-costas-cant-shoot-straight-when-it-comes-to-guns/?intcmp=obnetwork

Bob Costas doubled down on gun control Wednesday night on "The O’Reilly Factor" and  Tuesday on MSNBC. Despite all the commotion generated by his rant on guns during halftime on NBC’s "Sunday Night Football,” he just couldn’t leave well enough alone. He called for restrictions on concealed handgun permit holders and reduced gun ownership in cities. Some Democratic lawmakers followed Costas’ lead and called for more gun control this week.  Unfortunately, Costas’ statements were filled with errors on topics ranging from "body armor" to “automatic weapons” to the gun laws in Colorado to the views of police to the behavior of permit holders.  During appearances on both shows Costas worried about the “Wild West, Dirty Harry mentality” of America’s 8 million concealed handgun permit holders.  Regarding the Aurora, Colorado shooting he attacked: “people who actually believe that if a number of people were armed at the theater in Aurora, they would have been able to take down this nut job in body armor and military style artillery.” But Costas never asked why the killer picked the Cinemark’s Century 16 Theater in Aurora, Colorado on July 20th to commit mass murder. ...

There's more to it, but I'm on my phone.... Dumb E36 M3

Violent thugs who get paid millions to play a game remind Costas that we mustn't have the ability to protect ourselves against the violent thugs who don't.

Life is good when you live in a multi-million dollar mansion on a hill with a gated drive and body guards. Drop his little bitch ass off in Oakland and see how quickly he changes his mind.

Bob Costas is a Bob Costas

Someone needs to explain to him the difference in a black vest with a lot of pockets and a bullet-resistant vest. The nut job in CO didn't have any body armor

poopshovel wrote: Life is good when you live in a multi-million dollar mansion on a hill with a gated drive and body guards. Drop his little bitch ass off in Oakland and see how quickly he changes his mind.

Better idea, West Detroit. Livernois and Davison ave will do.

Kenny_McCormic wrote:

poopshovel wrote: Life is good when you live in a multi-million dollar mansion on a hill with a gated drive and body guards. Drop his little bitch ass off in Oakland and see how quickly he changes his mind.

Better idea, West Detroit. Livernois and Davison ave will do.

Or in Memphis

The problem with the gun debate (well, any debate, really) is that no one ever really hears from the majority of clear-headed, reasonable and well-informed masses. Instead, we hear two messages: No guns, ever vs. All guns, all the time. Costas may be well-meaning, but he's certainly misinformed and has several facts wrong. Likewise, I wish to every God in the pantheon of all that is good and holy that Ted Nugent would SHUT THE BERKELEY UP!

The problem is that you can't make a case for anyone's ability to possess a firearm without getting lumped in with the Nugents, and you can't discuss a case for restrictions on use and ownership without getting lumped in with the Costases. So, basically, it's the same as every other debate in this country right now. A few loud a-holes get all the attention while the quiet majority goes about our business.

Personally, I like guns. I like guns a lot. And while I feel that a gun is merely a tool, I also believe that it is a tool that, if misused, can have extremely serious repercussions. It's also a tool capable of doing great harm—intentional or otherwise—from a great distance. Yes, knives are scary. But I'm not nearly as afraid of a guy with a knife 40 yards away as I am a guy with a gun 40 yards away.

And, at the end of the day, I don't know the answer. I do believe that gun violence and access to firearms is something that a civilized society should discuss rationally, though. I guess if I had my way I'd push for more education. Let's encourage a culture that understands firearms and their use and can make a reasonable decision about what they want their involvement to be. I don't want a society that fears guns, not do a want a society that fetishizes them (NRA, I'm looking at you here).

But, chances are we'll just get more screaming.

jg

JG Pasterjak wrote: Likewise, I wish to every God in the pantheon of all that is good and holt that Ted Nugent would SHUT THE BERKELEY UP! Personally, I like guns. I like guns a lot. I do believe that gun violence and access to firearms is something that a civilized society should discuss rationally, though. I guess if I had my way I'd push for more education. But, chances are we'll just get more screaming. jg

Agreed
Agreed
Agreed
Agreed

If all the stuff that is in the OP's post is true, berkeley Bob Costas. He is throwing the typical anti-gun junk of an uninformed person.

I have no problem with having a permit and requiring people to have training before hand. There are WAAAAAY too many people that own firearms and do not even know the 4 gun safety rules (I am looking at you "avid hunter" guy). There are alot of accidental shootings that could be prevented with this.

Okay, if I was a security guy at a concert, both of the last two posts would have gotten a two-finger point and some stink eye.

One of the things I like about this forum is it's one of the few places healthy and reasonable discussion and debate still exists between parties that disagree. Please see that it stays that way.

jg

fast_eddie_72 wrote: (edit) Fine. Whatever. You guys have fun. Nothing political here.

Not trying to big dog you, bro. Just trying to keep the discussion from devolving.

You actually raise two great examples (guns and same-sex marriage) where politics has all but ruined the discussion and prevented any meaningful debate.

So long as these "issues" threads remain civil they'll stick around. We have no problem with spirited discussions so long as we all remain pals.

jg

JG: I understand your point, but you're missing the point, which is: berkeley Bob Costas.

The concept that guns are responsible for gun violence is the same concept that spoons are responsible for obesity, cars are responsible for my speeding tickets, and doughnuts are responsible for fat cops with glazed eyes.

I remember when I was living in Nashville a while back and there was a story of a guy chased another guy across an abandoned lot in a bad part of town and beat him to death with a brick. Now by Costa's logic as presented here, we should have stricter brick control.

Humans are violent creatures, the world is a violent place. Until the culture of the country is against these behaviors unequivocally, and we focus on the route cause of violence from desperation, only then will we see a decline in violence of any sort.

Even then there will still be violence by sociopaths and the disturbed but you will see a reduction.

Education... yep, that's important. I'm going to attempt to draw a parallel.

You know when you're a kid, and your Dad teaches you how to change the oil and set the timing? If that doesn't happen, can you teach yourself effectively? I'd bet for 99% of us it was passed down from dad / gramps / friends, and very few folks learned by reading books.

When you're a kid, and your dad takes you to shoot a 22 - the same thing happens. If you don't get that opportunity, its not something you can just go out and teach yourself in the back yard. So what's a guy to do?

JG Pasterjak wrote: The problem with the gun debate (well, any debate, really) is that no one ever really hears from the majority of clear-headed, reasonable and well-informed masses. Instead, we hear two messages: No guns, ever vs. All guns, all the time. Costas may be well-meaning, but he's certainly misinformed and has several facts wrong. Likewise, I wish to every God in the pantheon of all that is good and holy that Ted Nugent would SHUT THE BERKELEY UP! The problem is that you can't make a case for anyone's ability to possess a firearm without getting lumped in with the Nugents, and you can't discuss a case for restrictions on use and ownership without getting lumped in with the Costases. So, basically, it's the same as every other debate in this country right now. A few loud a-holes get all the attention while the quiet majority goes about our business. Personally, I like guns. I like guns a lot. And while I feel that a gun is merely a tool, I also believe that it is a tool that, if misused, can have extremely serious repercussions. It's also a tool capable of doing great harm—intentional or otherwise—from a great distance. Yes, knives are scary. But I'm not nearly as afraid of a guy with a knife 40 yards away as I am a guy with a gun 40 yards away. And, at the end of the day, I don't know the answer. I do believe that gun violence and access to firearms is something that a civilized society should discuss rationally, though. I guess if I had my way I'd push for more education. Let's encourage a culture that understands firearms and their use and can make a reasonable decision about what they want their involvement to be. I don't want a society that fears guns, not do a want a society that fetishizes them (NRA, I'm looking at you here). But, chances are we'll just get more screaming. jg

And yeah, seriously, agreed on all counts. More education would be awesome. People who don't know how and when to use guns shouldn't own them, politicians who don't know berkeley all about guns (was it barbara boxer?) shouldn't be able to classify and ban "assault weapons" based on how scary the ones in a catalogue look, and Bob Costas should shut the berkeley up, hop in his goddamned limo, roll up in his "non economically diverse" neighborhood, sit on his couch, pet his wig, and munch on a big ass bag of dicks.

People who are mentally unstable also shouldn't be allowed to own guns...or drive a car...or vote...or run for congress. See where I'm going here?

My stance on the whole thing is the same as my stance on most of these politicized things; Act like you've got some goddamned sense. You should be able to defend yourself against an attacker or an oppressive...erm...somethingeruther. An AR is an effective tool for these scenarios. A nuke is a little over the top.

FWIW, Costa's son went to Clemson when I was a senior. I met him working the President's Box.

We use his name correctly.

mikeatrpi wrote: Education... yep, that's important. I'm going to attempt to draw a parallel. You know when you're a kid, and your Dad teaches you how to change the oil and set the timing? If that doesn't happen, can you teach yourself effectively? I'd bet for 99% of us it was passed down from dad / gramps / friends, and very few folks learned by reading books. When you're a kid, and your dad takes you to shoot a 22 - the same thing happens. If you don't get that opportunity, its not something you can just go out and teach yourself in the back yard. So what's a guy to do?

Good question, and one I'm not sure I know the answer to. I think threads like this one (for the most part) are baby steps toward the process, though. We need to learn to discuss issues and not politicize them.

Stepping back, we realize that guns are a hot-button issue, surrounded by lots of strong emotions. The gun threads on this board have—for the most part—been apolitical. Sure there have been a few comments and snipes thrown out, but largely the discussion has been civil and informed.

And that, I think, is the approach that folks on both extreme sides of the debate would be wise to pay attention to. There's real discussion going on out there, and if pundits would shut up long enough to hear it they may learn something.

jg

In reply to mikeatrpi:

Find a friend who shoots. No gun luvin' buddies? I'm sure there are gun forums that might teach you in person. Shooting ranges might be another place.

Point is, you are rational enough to ask about training. That's cool. There are lots of gun owners who would be happy to teach you.

I like berkeleying Bob Costas personally. The GGA thread shows great examples why. Wait what are we talking about?

fast_eddie_72 wrote: Why has grassrootsmotorsports.com turned into an NRA site? Gee. If only the internet had sites devoted to political debate, or guns. I really wish one of our gay members would start a thread asking for advice on planning their wedding.

Um I feel like some members that are in LBGT community have asked advice on this board and most members have been more then supportive.

But I am surprised that this thread is being allowed to survive cause it sure seems fairly political to me.

mikeatrpi wrote: Education... yep, that's important. I'm going to attempt to draw a parallel. You know when you're a kid, and your Dad teaches you how to change the oil and set the timing? If that doesn't happen, can you teach yourself effectively? I'd bet for 99% of us it was passed down from dad / gramps / friends, and very few folks learned by reading books. When you're a kid, and your dad takes you to shoot a 22 - the same thing happens. If you don't get that opportunity, its not something you can just go out and teach yourself in the back yard. So what's a guy to do?

I had never shot a weapon other than a BB gun as a kid until boot camp. No one in my family was interested in guns or shooting(or any outdoor activity for that matter). I was trained to shoot and later trained to coach people to shoot while in the Marine Corps. Because of proper training, I know how to handle a weapon properly. Unfortunately, other than gun shop employees, I rarely see people handle weapons the way I am comfortable with. I frown upon people just buying a weapon and trying to teach themselves for fear of being "uncool".

Long story short, there are weapon training classes at every range I have ever been to. I do not know the price, but I am sure whatever it is, it's worth it.

In grade school 3rd or 4th grade, way back when, we had a gun safety class. Lived on a farm and pretty much every family had at least a shotgun somewhere around the house.

fast_eddie_72 wrote: In reply to Anti-stance: Guys, I'm really trying to let this go. Now shut the berkeley up. I'll go back and delete my posts. But quit pickin' at it. I'm man enough to walk away. Stop being pricks.

Whoa, man! Easy with the name calling. I can delete posts too. Lets keep it civil.