The gray states they are legal for individuals, trusts and corporations. It is a myth that they are widely outlawed. It is only in the most liberal states for the most part that don't allow them. The biggest thing is the cost, many suppressors can cost more than the guns they are going on, and the completion of Form 4 and coughing up $200 just so that you can wait for 9+ months for a federal paper pusher to approve it.
http://www.silencerco.com/ownership/
Kenny_McCormic wrote:stanger_missle wrote: What about "managed recoil" shells? Are they a gimmick or do they actually make a difference? This thread is relevant to my interests.Never tried em, if you genuinely cant handle a 12 gauge, and most people can if they hold it correctly, you might look into it. Personally I figure in such a situation recoil and noise is of minimal concern.
My wife is 5'1", a light weight and she can shoulder fire her 12 gauge with no problems using full power loads. At this point unless you have something medically wrong with you is when I would suggest "man up".
I had a Remington 870 with 18 inch barrel for years. Traded it and got a new 870 express magnum 18 inch. The bluing lasted all of 1 hunting trip. Got wet and rusted over night in a tent. I will never buy another Remington. Picked up a Rock Island M5 for $120. It is a copy of a hi standard. Smoothest action I have ever used. I keep my 686-6+ by the bed for HD. If you cant handle a 12 gauge get a youth model 20 gauge.
I really wish it was in the budget to beef up the old arsenal. Which at this point is down to the old turkey shoot Savage single shot 12 gauge with rifle sights jb welded to it. Something that holds more than one shot is really appealing.
Do a search for a double barrel 16 gauge. 16s are cheap because they aren't made anymore, but ammo is still plentiful.
Saw the barrel at 18", load two shells, and if you can't kill or repel them with those two shots, just lay down and let them steal your E36 M3.
In reply to Nick_Comstock:
There are quite a few great deals to be had on old shotguns. They won't shoot modern mag loads but they will do great for cheap. Also as xd found out the finish on many modern shotguns can be crap. Another good bugget gun is an old Savage/Stevens pump like they used in Vietnam. Civilian versions are dirt cheap and very rugged. Some of the new budget guns I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot poll if the purpose is defense even in the slightest. I have seen some old classics go for $150 or less and they are 10x the quality.
Also, good freakin luck when you have your day in court for rightfully killing somebody with a suppressor equipped firearm.
mndsm wrote:Grizz wrote: 500 or 870I hadn't heard that part.... Interesting.mndsm wrote: Mossberg is a great home defense shotgun. There's the Taurus judge, but that's a handgun and takes 410 shells.From what I've heard, the judge is kinda poopy quality.
there doesn't seem to be any middle ground … folk either love the Judge or hate it
The judge is great if you have a rattlesnake issue, it's far from ideal against a two legged threat.
Does it really matter? Is it going to become a subject for debate with the person on the other end?
If I was convinced a burglar was in the house, I would just chamber the round...the sound is pretty much the universal call sign to a burglar to depart for easier pickings. If still in doubt, a round through the nearest chunk of drywall (cheaper repair than a door) and I am sure that the individual in question would be looking for a way out.
The problem with shooting the SOB is that you are left with a big old mess in the living room. I don't know about your old lady, but mine has a fit if she sees a water stain from a glass, brain matter on the living room wall wall is bound to piss her off to no end. So, unless one of these implements actually does a clean job of vaporizing the perp, it ain't gonna matter.
You know, our Vice President who wants to be President, recommends that we have a double barrel shotgun for home defense. He also recommends that if there is a burglar, you go out on the porch and fire off two shots in the air to scare them away. There's a reason he's Vice President, you know.
Dr. Hess wrote: There's a reason he's Vice President, you know.
His sweet Trans Am, right?
Dr. Hess wrote: You know, our Vice President who wants to be President, recommends that we have a double barrel shotgun for home defense. He also recommends that if there is a burglar, you go out on the porch and fire off two shots in the air to scare them away. There's a reason he's Vice President, you know.
Nothing wrong with a double barrel shotgun for home defense. A good one of those is a good deal more reliable than a pump or auto.
Also. I thought that was how the vp celebrated his birthday, not scare off burglars.
No, he said he told his wife to go out on porch with her two shot shotgun and fire two shots up in the air to scare off potential burglars. Your good at google-fu, Iggy, find us a linky.
I have nothing against a double barrel shotgun for home defense.
In reply to NOHOME:
My wife has cleaned crime scenes before so it's nothing new for her.
As for warning shots they are illegal. If you are pulling your weapon you must be in fear for your life and those around you or you are breaking the law. That is how you get arrested for brandishing and reckless endangerment along with other things. If you pull that trigger you are doing so to end a threat you perceive as life threatening. NOT to scare someone away. If they are armed or coming at you the. You are in fear of your life and it is a justified shoot. You give them a warning shot you get arrested for the previously mentioned and possible injury reckless discharge etc.
Uncle Joe advocating illegal behavior
http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/20/us/us-biden-shotguns-social-media/
Dr. Hess wrote: No, he said he told his wife to go out on porch with her two shot shotgun and fire two shots up in the air to scare off potential burglars.
that is funnay
rebelgtp wrote: Uncle Joe advocating illegal behavior http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/20/us/us-biden-shotguns-social-media/
I agree with the Shotgun vs.. Ar-15 for home defense but the rest is just insane.
thanks for the laugh. He's like the male version of sarah palin.
In reply to Fueled by Caffeine:
Yeah home defense is all about close quarters and a shotgun is a close quarters weapon where as an AR is medium to long range, granted yes they are at time used as close quarters. I would still rather have a pump over a double barrel.
rebelgtp wrote: In reply to NOHOME: My wife has cleaned crime scenes before so it's nothing new for her.
You married Amy Adams?
alright.. Back on Topic. I vote Rem 870 as I worked at their main factory in Ilion for one summer during engineering school as a barrel manufacturing intern. They are good solid guns and the folks who make them in NY are great people. I enjoyed being part of the plants weekly Skeet and Trap Leagues. I hate golf and this was a great way to hang out of the guys without playing golf.. did I mention I hate golf.
It is really sad to see the company move that factory. Remington has been passed from greedy holding company to greedy holding company over the years and that company has been squeezed dry. When I was there(about 10 years ago), they were being very silly with their investments into the facility. They moved to cheaper material that did not react with their GFM cold forges well. I spent a lot of time measuring hockey stick shaped barrels.
Also that factory is structurally ancient, from a production and flow perspective. Old factories were built vertically instead of horizontaly. Vertical movement is wasteful. They did heat treat and blueing/parkezing on site, but those areas were buried in the facility and not close to the production lines. So the process was highly dependant on batching and therefore superwasteful. There were piles of inventory everywhere. For example, you'd turn the barrel blanks and then send them to the GFM forge.. Then they'd have to go for stress relieve heat treat a 10-15 trip by forklift to the other side of the factory. Plus then queueing time at heat treat, then back to the other side of the plant for turning, chambering, straigtening, etc.. etc... Then back for heat treat... Lots of wasted movement in that place... A relic of manufacturing....
Sorry for the rant, but the engineering and MBA side of me says the move to the south is a good thing, especially if they leave the ancient machinery in NY. The human side of me says it's not so great.. (Yes.. I did just imply MBA's and Engineers are not humans).
Also Ithaca.. Those are some great pump guns.
And the above info is right, the only difference between a lower end 870 and a better one is the number of finishing steps and the length of time in the bluing tanks..
Another note. Remington's R&D labs were full of Brownings... take that for what you will.
Fueled by Caffeine wrote: I enjoyed being part of the plants weekly Skeet and Trap Leagues. I hate golf and this was a great way to hang out of the guys without playing golf.. did I mention I hate golf.
I have always said to make golf more entertaining they should add a shotgun to the bag and allow you to shoot your opponents ball out of the air. 
rebelgtp wrote: In reply to NOHOME: My wife has cleaned crime scenes before so it's nothing new for her. As for warning shots they are illegal. If you are pulling your weapon you must be in fear for your life and those around you or you are breaking the law. That is how you get arrested for brandishing and reckless endangerment along with other things. If you pull that trigger you are doing so to end a threat you perceive as life threatening. NOT to scare someone away. If they are armed or coming at you the. You are in fear of your life and it is a justified shoot. You give them a warning shot you get arrested for the previously mentioned and possible injury reckless discharge etc.
What you just described is the classic shootout at the OK corral. So what you are saying is that the gun stuff in the USA is even more berkleyed than the rest of the world thinks it is? And trust me, as a US citizen living abroad, I get an earful of what furriners think of the situation. Me,I don't care one way or the other; lived in worse places. How about flash-bangs? Can I toss those around legally?
In reply to NOHOME:
Actually no it is not the "shootout at the OK corral" it is how the law works. If you are drawing to frighten/intimidate, firing warning shots, shooting to wound etc you are not in fear for your life and you have no LEGAL right to have drawn or fired your weapon. It is the exact opposite of the OK corral analogy that you have given. Basically you must be in a life threatening situation that you did not create yourself (no picking a fight) to be justified in using your weapon. The legal justification for drawing and using your weapon is to end an immediate threat to your life or well-being, that also means no shooting through doors, windows etc. They have to be physically capable of killing or injuring you. Some states vary in the exact details however most follow that basic idea.
In reply to NOHOME:
A gun is a lethal weapon. Don't pull it unless you're prepared to do something lethal with it.
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