Yeah we go through over a pound of produce a day. No way to buy months worth of that. But I agree on cheese, frozen stuff, dried goods, etc. it's nice to have a lot of food on hand!
Yeah we go through over a pound of produce a day. No way to buy months worth of that. But I agree on cheese, frozen stuff, dried goods, etc. it's nice to have a lot of food on hand!
Along with my 401k, I also have an Acorns account that I throw a couple hundred in each month. It adds up over time.
Andy Neuman said:This whole thread makes me think, how much do I really need in an "emergency fund." What emergency could there be where I really need it to be accessible today?
Currently I have a similar conundrum of having cash sitting doing nothing. I have great credit and can access a lot within two weeks so why am I sitting on cash. Other than knowing some upcoming house projects to spend money on why do I have more than $5k sitting still.
That was exactly why we opened the brokerage account. For transparency, I also have an IRA (rolled over from an employer), a Roth that I max out every year, and a 401K from the place I just left, so I have long term savings covered..
We hit ~5 months of expenses in savings, and got a whopping $1.28 in interest.... Wow.
We came to your exact realization that we have 50k in credit available (we automatically pay the cards off every month, no interest payments), so how big of an emergency would it have to be to need access to that 5 months expenses tomorrow? We literally couldn't think of one.
So now I just try to keep 6-10k in the checking/savings account to cover the normal household flow, the rest gets dumped into the brokerage account.
I lived thru the high interest days - 5% payout. Almost a $1 interest quarterly on my $77 balance.
I ordered a new Schwinn bicycle and spent my savings. You should see the quarterly interest when I saved $5,000 up.
WonkoTheSane said:Andy Neuman said:This whole thread makes me think, how much do I really need in an "emergency fund." What emergency could there be where I really need it to be accessible today?
Currently I have a similar conundrum of having cash sitting doing nothing. I have great credit and can access a lot within two weeks so why am I sitting on cash. Other than knowing some upcoming house projects to spend money on why do I have more than $5k sitting still.
That was exactly why we opened the brokerage account. For transparency, I also have an IRA (rolled over from an employer), a Roth that I max out every year, and a 401K from the place I just left, so I have long term savings covered..
We hit ~5 months of expenses in savings, and got a whopping $1.28 in interest.... Wow.
We came to your exact realization that we have 50k in credit available (we automatically pay the cards off every month, no interest payments), so how big of an emergency would it have to be to need access to that 5 months expenses tomorrow? We literally couldn't think of one.
So now I just try to keep 6-10k in the checking/savings account to cover the normal household flow, the rest gets dumped into the brokerage account.
I only have maybe $1k in savings and keep $2-3k in my checking account. I like that even though it's only March 4th, I've already paid the April mortgage and car payment. We have a decent rewards card that we use for everything outside of two utilities and the mortgage that won't accept it. So I typically make a $2-3k payment on that at the end of each month, depending on if we need house stuff and dog/cat food.
Downside to a brokerage account would be what's happening with the market right now. I just put $12k into a ROTH and of course, the market dips right after.
pheller said:Downside to a brokerage account would be what's happening with the market right now. I just put $12k into a ROTH and of course, the market dips right after.
Yeah, that is a negative with how fluid things are right now.
In reply to pheller :
True, but in the long term it usually recovers. The point to a brokerage account is that you have a (hopefully skilled) broker who can read the market. In the last two years I've had exactly one monthly reported loss in value on my holdings, and it was less than half of 1% of the total value. Even while the market is taking a nose dive, a good broker knows when to hold and fold.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to pheller :
The point to a brokerage account is that you have a (hopefully skilled) broker who can read the market.
No. No no no.
There is LOTS of reading on this, but the short answer is: A broker is highly unlikely to beat the market.
https://www.businessinsider.com/personal-finance/investment-pros-cant-beat-the-stock-market-2020-7
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/18/stock-picking-has-a-terrible-track-record-and-its-getting-worse.html
https://www.yahoo.com/video/dont-pay-investment-adviser-beat-144400899.html
The results for this are endless.
This is also a fun watch:
Datsun310Guy said:I lived thru the high interest days - 5% payout. Almost a $1 interest quarterly on my $77 balance.
I ordered a new Schwinn bicycle and spent my savings. You should see the quarterly interest when I saved $5,000 up.
That's awesome. I recently re-discovered my old savings passbook from the early 80's. I think 5% interest was pretty standard for a number of years. I recall that during the Carter years, CD rates were into the upper teens. Pretty crazy when you consider what they are now. Might see them again, I suppose.
ProDarwin said:Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to pheller :
The point to a brokerage account is that you have a (hopefully skilled) broker who can read the market.
No. No no no
.......
That's why my broker's name is VIGAX for my brokerage account.
In reply to ProDarwin :
I cringed too when Curtis73 said that a skilled broker can read the market.
I don't invest from a financial prospective, I invest from a statistical prospective and it's clear, you're far better off just buying and holding ultra low load index funds than paying someone to try to time the market and pick sectors.
The consensus of the half dozen well preformed studies I've read over the years suggest that buy n hold beats timing and picking somewhere in the 92% to 95% of the time range.
Also, the really disastrous outcomes result when somebody tries to outsmart the market.
Curtis73, you're an awesome guy that's right 99% of the time but I believe you're in the 1% time right now.
In reply to ProDarwin :
Short of posting my last two years of statements... Um.... (or were you not refuting that part?)
I'm not saying they beat the market, I'm saying they spend 40 hours a week living and breathing the market unless they fall into one of those categories of vultures you mention. If they're a random financial person who takes your commission money without doing any work, then of course they fit that villainized profile you point out.
I never mentioned anything about buying and selling stock or beating the market. It is kind of funny that you posted that particular John Oliver clip. My broker actually was at my wedding... and my grandfather's funeral... and my grandmother's... and my sister's wedding. Not typical, I know, just coincidental that Oliver specifically mentioned that.
I agree with what you posted, but it's pretty inaccurate to state that the entire corps of investment-types are 100% awful ideas. Most of them, yes. Glorified salespeople. But to assume that every broker just collects commissions and then doesn't do anything to grow your wealth is pretty inaccurate.
In reply to RX Reven' :
I will admit to having a genuinely good broker in a sea of modern bullE36 M3 "advisors," and if that puts me in the minority, I'll take it. I just don't have the same apocalyptic view. Majority of them bad? Maybe. All of them? Absolutely not.
dculberson said:Yeah we go through over a pound of produce a day. No way to buy months worth of that. But I agree on cheese, frozen stuff, dried goods, etc. it's nice to have a lot of food on hand!
We have 2 kids, both under 10, and they blow through a 5 pound bag of carrots in a week, and that's just carrots, not including oranges, apples, broccoli, peppers, brussel sprouts, etc.
I once had a grocery store cashier ask me if I was buying food for a horse.
Yes, we do stock up in shelf stable stuff, too. Both for taking advantage of sales and for food security in case of a...problem. We have 60 cans of beans in the pantry right now, for example.
The only book I can recall reading in pursuit of a B.S. in Finance:
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
I don't think they're evil, I just think they believe they're more skillful than they actually are.
To just break even with index funds they have to outperform the market enough to cover their salaries, expenses, and the additional taxes (often expensive short term capital gains) incurred by their trading.
The consensus of many well designed and unbiased studies suggests that the large majority can't.
I'm a straight math guy and I think I'm better off buying and holding ultra load index funds.
Here's what the S&P 500 has returned in recent years:
It's possible that your broker has done better but that's no proof that he/she is so smart that they can "consistently" beat the market by so much that they can cover their costs.
If you're happy, that fine, it's just that as a math guy, I'm going for the 92% to 95% probability of doing better on my own.
Have a great weekend my friend.
In reply to 1988RedT2 :
...you're welcome 
pheller said:Downside to a brokerage account would be what's happening with the market right now. I just put $12k into a ROTH and of course, the market dips right after.
I'm sitting on the sideline with some money right now - in a Vanguard money market account. Ready to move it into an index fund.
...but I'm curious. If I see a big down day in the current roller coaster... And I want to buy near the end of a "down day" I'm not sure that I could if I tried. My fear is I'd order the transaction and they'd initiate it at noon the next day after the bounce. Or the end of the next day.
How does that work in index funds at Vanguard? Truly curious. This is not money I intend to need to touch for fifteen years but it'd still be nice to feel like I can control the entry point like you can with a stock using a limit order.
I know in general that market timing is not a strategy worth trying, but it would still feel good to buy some index fund at the time of my choosing.
In reply to RX Reven' :
So you're saying when my broker retires, I'm screwed
I already knew that. :) Although it will mean he and I have more time to go fishing.
volvoclearinghouse said:they blow through a 5 pound bag of carrots in a week
When I was juicing carrots I would blow through 3# a day x 7 days a week. I would go twice a week and I didn't buy too many cause some are sweeter than other carrots and I didn't a pile of crappy carrots.
The cashier would give me a weird look too 12-15# at a time. Then I got into the 5# Costco bags of carrots.
OHSCrifle said:pheller said:Downside to a brokerage account would be what's happening with the market right now. I just put $12k into a ROTH and of course, the market dips right after.
I'm sitting on the sideline with some money right now - in a Vanguard money market account. Ready to move it into an index fund.
...but I'm curious. If I see a big down day in the current roller coaster... And I want to buy near the end of a "down day" I'm not sure that I could if I tried. My fear is I'd order the transaction and they'd initiate it at noon the next day after the bounce. Or the end of the next day.
How does that work in index funds at Vanguard? Truly curious. This is not money I intend to need to touch for fifteen years but it'd still be nice to feel like I can control the entry point like you can with a stock using a limit order.
I know in general that market timing is not a strategy worth trying, but it would still feel good to buy some index fund at the time of my choosing.
Index funds usually trade at the closing price for the day.
Its easy to get hung up on that, but its better to get in than it is to wait forever on the sidelines for the right moment.
That said, if I have to sink a big chunk into the market, I often spread the order out over a number of days or weeks to average it out and reduce the risk of hitting a spike.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to ProDarwin :
I'm not saying they beat the market, I'm saying they spend 40 hours a week living and breathing the market unless they fall into one of those categories of vultures you mention. If they're a random financial person who takes your commission money without doing any work, then of course they fit that villainized profile you point out.
I never mentioned anything about buying and selling stock or beating the market.
Apologies, maybe I read too much into your statement. If they aren't outperforming the market, what exactly are they doing? "a good broker knows when to hold and fold" sounds like you are suggesting that to me.
A good financial advisor would recommend a balance of index funds based on your risk tolerance and predicted time of withdrawal. They may also offer advice on what types of accounts to use to maximize tax sheltering, liquidity, etc. You could pay them $ to also execute all of this for you. But none of this is related to "reading the market".
ProDarwin said:OHSCrifle said:pheller said:Downside to a brokerage account would be what's happening with the market right now. I just put $12k into a ROTH and of course, the market dips right after.
I'm sitting on the sideline with some money right now - in a Vanguard money market account. Ready to move it into an index fund.
...but I'm curious. If I see a big down day in the current roller coaster... And I want to buy near the end of a "down day" I'm not sure that I could if I tried. My fear is I'd order the transaction and they'd initiate it at noon the next day after the bounce. Or the end of the next day.
How does that work in index funds at Vanguard? Truly curious. This is not money I intend to need to touch for fifteen years but it'd still be nice to feel like I can control the entry point like you can with a stock using a limit order.
I know in general that market timing is not a strategy worth trying, but it would still feel good to buy some index fund at the time of my choosing.
Index funds usually trade at the closing price for the day.
Its easy to get hung up on that, but its better to get in than it is to wait forever on the sidelines for the right moment.
That said, if I have to sink a big chunk into the market, I often spread the order out over a number of days or weeks to average it out and reduce the risk of hitting a spike.
Good call. Thanks
I'm going to preface this by saying, not a canoe, and not an affiliate link.
This is cryptocurrency related, but not utilizing things like BTC or ETH. I'd look at the FAQ that they have at the bottom of the page.
I do have my own money in this and have for the last year with no issues. The volitity in the crypto market is real, but for this instance it isn't affected by that. Basically I have XX amount of dollars in GUSD (gemini dollar), and for those dollars, I earn 8.05% interest. I can exchange that money any time I want, and in fact had to do so this week, it transferred to my regular banking account in 1 business day (they said 3, but it was faster in this case).
I had an Ally account in the past where I was earning 4.5%, but that has dropped as the market has gone down. Found this and moved my ally money over here and have been pleased with the results.
I do hold some other crypto and have put it over here as well, it earns interest too, but is subject to the crypto market and earns a much smaller percentage, but at least it's doing something instead of sitting in an account somewhere and not earning interest.
I also hold a good amount of stocks and index funds, so this is another form of diversification for me, and just like other forms of investing has risks (and you do get tax forms at the end of the year). But it's working for me, and figured others might be interested.
You'll need to log in to post.
