BIFL - Buy It for Life

ProDarwin said:

But... how do determine these things without actually taking the product apart?  Trying not to rant and rave about our consumer society here, but I feel that urge.  The soap box is right... there...

I work in an industry where while consumers use our products, they aren't responsible for buying & maintaining them.  The owners/operators have great interest in BIFL because it lowers their cost of ownership and lowers risk in the future.

Consumers in general don't care about this, and as a result, its really rare to see stuff made for life.  There are plenty of things all of us buy that are designed to be disposable.  Even in the case that a product is better engineered for a longer lifespan, supported for a longer period, etc. that information is rarely communicated well to the consumer   I'm trying to think of a single store where I can ask "can I repair this item?"  and the answer is "Yes".   Or better yet "How long will the manufacturer support parts/service for this item?" and the answer is not *blank stare*.

It's up to you to do your research. Thanks to the internet, there are enthusiast sites for EVERYTHING. Stuff gets taken apart on YouTube constantly. Heck, if you just look at the thing you can evaluate if it's intended to be disassembled or not, or if there are design flaws.

You can get some idea of future support from past support. KitchenAid sells repair parts for their old mixers. They'll probably support their new ones. Of course nobody can guarantee future support - even mighty Sears has a lifespan. But you can give yourself pretty good odds.

I don't necessarily subscribe to the "things were so much better back in the day" mindset. There was crap back then as well. But it's all broken, so only the strong have survived. China knows how to cast metal as well as the US ever did, it's up to the consumers to be willing to pay enough for the better quality products. Just like all the broken made-in-US old stuff in the landfills.

So, while we are on the subject...

Anyone know of a 10' x 10' (ish) autox popup canopy that's built to last and serviceable?

My employer makes aviation and tactical equipment for government and commercial customers.  It is primarily a large sewing shop.  The majority of the sewing machines are 50+ years old Singers and they keep on trucking.  

As for personal BIFL, I guess I hadn't considered purchases as "for life", but I have some things I intend to keep forever:
Kitchen-aid mixer (wedding present, and we use the fire out of it)
'96 Ranger I bought after high school.  Can't sell it for what I want, so I may as well keep it.  My kids want to drive it anyways.
Mossberg 500:  hands down my favorite gun to shoot

I'm not sure about the Craftsman toolset I got about 10 years ago.  Already been through one 3/8" ratchet, which my dad broke (broke a tooth on the drive gear) taking a spark plug out of a kart engine...there is no way we over tightened it.  

scardeal said:

In reply to volvoclearinghouse :

Out of curiosity, is the pair that's prematurely wearing out on you made in the US or China?  Do you know which model you got?  

Sorry for the delay in response.  it was the U.S-made pair.  I specifically wanted those, figuring they'd be better quality.  I forget the model, but they're good sturdy boots- steel toed, all leather, cover the ankle.  

The insoles are all imported- no way around that.  

ProDarwin said:

So, while we are on the subject...

Anyone know of a 10' x 10' (ish) autox popup canopy that's built to last and serviceable?

EZ-UP has a commercial line that's got much better hinges, etc on them. We have a couple, they're dramatically better made than the usual WalMart $89 ones. Their top of the line has octagonal struts so it's more likely to survive the typical high wind demise of so many pop-ups. Made in the USA, and an order of magnitude more expensive than the minimum level WalMart version.

I try to buy genuinely good small appliances.  Not just for longevity's sake, but also because they are typically more effective at doing whatever they are supposed to do.

Examples:

vacuum:  Miele C2

blender:  Vitamix 1723

Both have minimal displays, buttons, knobs, etc.  Both also have parts availability.  The blender has been going strong for 3 years, and the vacuum I just picked up this year.

I also have a pair of Red Wing Beckmans that have been worn daily for 3 years.  They're out for a resolve now.  So, $120 refurb cost per 3 years isn't too bad I guess for a pair of boots that I really like.

S&W  Revolver pick your flavor, properly cared for should last 10 lifetimes.

I have an Elgin wrist watch from 1929 that still works like a charm and I could wear daily if it was wise for me to wear a watch daily.

Wedding band.. generally made to a pretty stout form and of metal and still designed to last a lifetime, provided your vows do.

My current stable of cars falls into the BIFL category.

Tools are my main thing. Good tools are worth the price.

In reply to volvoclearinghouse :

My made in USA Redwings will be 4 years old in a couple weeks and are pretty well shagged at this point - soles worn and coming apart, leather ripped and torn, eyelet missing, ect. Really, I've needed a new pair for at least a year but for what I paid I figure I'll get my money's worth! I haven't been kind to them and they're worn daily, so I'd say they've performed well. Will definitely replace with another pair.

As for the BIFL mentality, I always think of major purchases in terms of a matrix between cost and durability/utility/regularity of use, and everything has a different optimal point on that spectrum. Rarely do my needs dictate BIFL type purchases. In fact, guns and certain tools are about the only examples I can think of.

Speaking of which, can anyone recommend a BIFL 3/8" ratchet? My 11 year old Craftsman is about due for replacement and that's something I use enough to justify buying high quality.

Does anyone buy "tester" products to determine how much you'll actually use an item, how you'll break it, and then go out and buy a higher quality version? 

I had a pair of Timberland Earthkeeper loafers. Loved them, wore them often. After 5 years of wearing them nearly constantly, they got stolen in Vegas. (Yea I know right, Vegas. Pft.) They were still wearing pretty good at that point (having been resoled).

I tried a cheaper pair to see just how much I liked loafers. They are worn out after two years. Can't be resoled. 

Now I've got my eyes on a pair of Allen Edmonds from Shoebank.com. 

I have a few BIFL tools. Mostly big stuff that was old when I got it, the air compressor, lathe, mill, etc. Socket sets, pliers and wrenches last pretty much forever, I lose them more than I break them. I consider screwdrivers to be disposable and treat them as such.

I have 30+ of clocks that are pretty much forever items. They range from 60 to 100+ years old now and there is no reason they won't double that. As long as the house doesn't burn down, they will go to the kids and grandkids when I die. 

Sanford will probably last forever. Even if I don't keep it, someone will want to make it their own. I can't imagine it ending up in the scrap yard. The Samurai may survive. They have a pretty loyal following. The rest of the vehicles are probably destined for the scrap yard. They are just cars.

Consumer electronics are pretty much disposable. If they are repairable, it usually costs as much to repair as it does to replace. I get good service out of most of them. My last phone lived until it was so obsolete it was unusable, about 5 years. The current one will probably do the same. The current TV is 10 years old but on it's last legs. Buttons are dying and it has a Air Soft bullseye in the screen. I won't fix it, I'll just replace it. The receiver will last forever though, it hasn't been turned on in over a year. 

Smart watches may not last forever, but I do like having one. Mine is a Asus ZenWatch. My business is run from my cell phone and it goes off constantly. Being able to glance at my watch and see if a call or email is an immediate concern or one that can wait is worth having to charge it every night. Before I would have to dig out my phone to check, now a glance and a tap takes care of it. When this one dies, it will be replaced. 

Shoes are another story. Two years is all I ever got out of a pair. Even Redwings never lasted more than two years. I'm just hard on shoes. It doesn't matter how they are made, I destroy them. A good quality pair does last longer, but BIFL they aren't. 

pheller said:

Does anyone buy "tester" products to determine how much you'll actually use an item, how you'll break it, and then go out and buy a higher quality version? 

 

I had a pair of Timberland Earthkeeper loafers. Loved them, wore them often. After 5 years of wearing them nearly constantly, they got stolen in Vegas. (Yea I know right, Vegas. Pft.) They were still wearing pretty good at that point (having been resoled).

I tried a cheaper pair to see just how much I liked loafers. They are worn out after two years. Can't be resoled. 

Now I've got my eyes on a pair of Allen Edmonds from Shoebank.com. 

What size are you? I have a pair of AE loafers I'm not in love with. 

In reply to Furious_E :

Work boots are a consumable, especially if you wear them on a regular basis. Not saying don't get good ones but people that expect them to last forever generally don't ply a trade.

My previous employer would give us $100 dollars a year for boots. I bought 100ish dollar ones the first couple years I worked there. They generally started hurting my feet in five or six months which sucked. I started just buying Redwings and making up the difference because they were so much more comfortable. 

Anyway if the top is in ok shape you can resole them through Redwing or Vibram. I have a set that's been redone once it seems to have worked pretty well.

As far as BIFL goes: I have a pair of Finex cast iron skillets and my watches. Everything else is life limited but I try only stuff that'll last an incremental number of times longer than the cheaper one relative to it's price. That keeps the crap in the house to a minimum.

My 16th birthday present from my parents was splitting the cost of a new bike, a 1999 Marin Eldridge Grade. I'm about to turn 37, and that frame is currently built up to be my bike commuter when the weather is cooperative. If I've held on to it for 20 years so far, I don't see it going away ever.

I bought a BIFL weightlifting belt.  Then I lost it :(

About 1.5 years ago I separated from my wife.  I had to re-furnish some of the house.  I have done my best to get everything I possibly can second-hand.  Its nice that it is cheaper & easier to repair than brand-new garbage level furniture you could aquire from Ikea, Target, etc.

I also got a cast iron pan, stainless steel spatula, and a stainless food funnel.  There is no reason any of those should not out-last me.

Read through the list, some pretty interesting items.

BIFL generally falls into a few categories

• Simple old tech with no moving parts (Hammers, cast iron pans)  Honestly a Chinesium pan would probably last just as long as a Lodge or Estate Sale find but is nowhere near as cool, and priced out over years of ownership it doesnt matter
• Mechanical tools.  Hand tools, watches, drill presses, etc.   Even when the motor failed on my 60 year old drill press I could easily source DIY parts to keep it spinning.
• Well documented items that can be DIY'd and service parts are available.

I do wonder what we will see at car shows in 50 years, there are items for 10 year old cars that are NLA.  Will show cars of this era be just static display?  Running but just barely with tons of warning lights as various systems fail?  Will there be a cottage industry to revive cars from the start of the computerized era?   What do I do if I need to code a new ECU on my Mercedes and the "phone home" validation system is shut down?  Seems when electronics really caught on in the 80s and 90s, that was still DIY.  No CANBUS, no Coding, and even the circuitry could be DIY repaired if you had the patience and skills. 

I often wonder if there would be a market for some sort of flexible stand-alone Body Control Module that could be configured to run a whole car similar to an Allen Bradley PLC just optimized for the automotive market.  If you think about it, all cars area really quite similar at a basic functional level.  You could even have things like a generic remotely plumbed ABS pump that is set up to work with a bunch of different inputs and outputs, plug in a few variables and it can do the rest, I/O for windows, locks, sunroof, power seats, etc.  Standalone engine and trans computers already exist so thats just a matter of integrating with a generic BCM, dashes could be all flat panel displays set to mimmick the OEM with a trim ring.  

Obviously thats a gross oversimplification but it would be a fun project.  

After 10 years of cohabitation, my wife and I are starting to replace the random assortment of furniture we've acquired with stuff we actually, you know, want. We've been having a lot of "buy it for life" discussions about dining furniture recently - I really don't want to buy a particle board and veneer table, for instance. We finally agreed on some chairs that we both like and I tracked down a set last weekend. These are at least 50 years old, and minus the 70s tastic upholstery, look brand new still. 

In reply to Jere :

Zune! I still use mine, the screen has a few lines of dead pixels now and sometimes it reboots unexpectedly but it's still pretty great.

Tools for sure. I good tool will either last a lifetime or have a lifetime warranty.

I'm just leasing the wife, but I signed a lifetime contract.

CRKT "pocket" knife that I've had since pre-deployment. Eventually I'll wear the edge down over many years of sharpening but it'll be in my pocket until then. I've used it on cars, helicopters, and various types of electronics as well as general run of the mill pocket knife stuff. The only place it doesn't go is where I get in trouble for having it.

It's hard to go wrong with a good set of rough side out combat boots with a Vibram sole. It took about 4 years (10 months on naval non-skid) but I managed to walk/run the soles of my first pair smooth with cracks across the entirety of each. Steel toe, to boot (heh), and once I got some quality insoles in them, they were fine on my feet for 14+hrs a day.

My GTI is a Buy It For As Long As I Can Keep It Running (BIFALAICKIR?). It's 12yrs old and I haven't seen a new car on the road that I would rather have. It has just the right amount of tech in it, for my taste, no bright lights in the cockpit at night, has an actual engine, and looks nice to me inside and out.

A good belt. I bought a Levi leather belt in high school that I've have since and I wear it daily. Good leather is a treasure. The wallet I bought in high school was finally retired after about 14 years in very rough shape, it was not quality leather.

A good watch is on my list but, I'm finicky about wanting something Made in the USA that doesn't cost more than my paycheck.

Everything is BIFL, I'm too poor to buy things with the intent of replacing them.  (Consumables excepted of course - BIFL doesn't apply to tires or toilet paper, but the same principles apply: good is better than cheap in the long run)

Hey, I remember this thread!

That hammer I posted about is still hammering things, and will still hammer things 10 lifetimes from now. I also have a bunch of other hand tools that I've had since I first started wrenching, like my old Craftsman screwdriver set that I bought at Sears and a SK 3/8" ratchet set along with a separate SK flex head ratchet that I've put through the ringer over the years. I just bought a big Husky toolbox that I think will last my lifetime at least; it seems to be built well enough.

Other non-tool items that fall under BIFL:
-My old video games. I have some really early stuff, like my Atari 2600, that is over 40 years old now and still works great. Some of the games I literally found outside and they still work! My other, slightly newer stuff like my NES, SNES, and Genesis just need cleaning and the occasional light repair/modification to work indefinitely.

-Records and Stereo Equipment! I have a ton of vinyl that's older than I am, and my turntable and speakers are about my age (almost 38) and they show no signs of stopping.

-My guitars, basses, and drums. I don't see myself getting rid of any of that stuff. As long as the maintenance is kept up, they should work forever.

I will admit I have not one but two Dualit Toasters because I love their "Buy it for life" ethos. Totally repairable, intentionally simple for fewer failure points. 

3 years ago I got tired of spending $100 every six months on work boots and I paid $350 for some hand made red wing heritage boots. They are still going strong. They paid for themselves within a year and a half.

bmw88rider said:

I was going to say firearms. I have a handful of rifles that have been in the family for 70 years. My friends always get pissed when we go out to the 200-500 yd range and I'm nailing it with a 70 Y/O rifle and they can barely hit the target with their fancy all attachments brand new one. 

Above and beyond that tools. I still have some of the measuring tools from my great grandfather used as a machinist. 

"Beware the man who only has one gun. He assuredly knows how to use it/"

Greg Smith said:

bmw88rider said:

I was going to say firearms. I have a handful of rifles that have been in the family for 70 years. My friends always get pissed when we go out to the 200-500 yd range and I'm nailing it with a 70 Y/O rifle and they can barely hit the target with their fancy all attachments brand new one. 

Above and beyond that tools. I still have some of the measuring tools from my great grandfather used as a machinist. 

"Beware the man who only has one gun. He assuredly knows how to use it/"

Lol, in beer league hockey as a general rule, the best players are the ones using the oldest and most beat up equipment. You see a guy with skates that are falling apart and a z-bubble stick from 1998? Yeah, he's going to deke you out of your jock strap.