In reply to z31maniac :
You are correct, not everyone walks around scared. But that's not what I said. The people who carry and the people who want to take guns away are both minorities. My point was that those two minorities probably have more in common with each other than either would admit.
oldopelguy said:I personally carry for exactly the same reason all sorts of people want to take guns away from others. We are all scared.
The only difference between anti gun people and people who carry is that the first group thinks someone else will be able to rescue them from the bad people and the second group doesn't.
You can carry a spare tire or you can carry a AAA membership card and either way probably get where you are going. The difference is how long are you willing to sit on the side of the road?
And I don't carry because I am not scared and don't believe the world is as dangerous as our instant-information, sensationalist media makes it out to be.
But as a mountain biker and recently reading about a mountain lion killing a guy and mauling another in Washington state, I'll admit the thought has entered my mind.
I carry a spare tire and a AAA card.
So let me get this straight - you've been robbed at knifepoint, but question why anyone else wants to carry a gun. How do you resolve that the situation might happen again? Will you always be the victim to anyone with a knife the next time? Or is the ultimate safe space a knife-free zone a la Britain?
For me, I've had a white, middle-class, boring subdivision life (and on a military installation for several years). I've had one person in my family raped/killed in a violent home invasion because she was unarmed at home alone, three different women in my family raped, one gang-raped twice. All of these crimes happened because the victim (my family member) was overpowered by a bigger attacker. No drugs, crime-ridden areas, nothing. All victimized by people that are not from their neighborhood and culture/class.
I now have three daughters. I have firearms to protect my family from those types of predators. No, I'm not with them all the time, but I'll be damned if I will let someone with a knife make me hand over my daughter. What do you do to protect your family?
As far as rights go, no American citizen has to prove a need to exercise their 2nd Amendment right. It's an enumerated right, and I am not required to justify myself to anyone, especially the government.
FIYAPOWA said:So let me get this straight - you've been robbed at knifepoint, but question why anyone else wants to carry a gun. How do you resolve that the situation might happen again? Will you always be the victim to anyone with a knife the next time? Or is the ultimate safe space a knife-free zone a la Britain?
For me, I've had a white, middle-class, boring subdivision life (and on a military installation for several years). I've had one person in my family raped/killed in a violent home invasion because she was unarmed at home alone, three different women in my family raped, one gang-raped twice. All of these crimes happened because the victim (my family member) was overpowered by a bigger attacker. No drugs, crime-ridden areas, nothing. All victimized by people that are not from their neighborhood and culture/class.
I now have three daughters. I have firearms to protect my family from those types of predators. No, I'm not with them all the time, but I'll be damned if I will let someone with a knife make me hand over my daughter. What do you do to protect your family?
As far as rights go, no American citizen has to prove a need to exercise their 2nd Amendment right. It's an enumerated right, and I am not required to justify myself to anyone, especially the government.
I'm very sorry that has happened to your family. That's horrific.
Perhaps I didn't properly enunciate the point I was trying to make. Even though I've had that happen to me, I don't feel the need to carry. And as Ian pointed out, America isn't the South Sudan where walking out your front door will get you killed like the media makes us try to believe. Unlike your very horrific experience, many have never had anything like that happen. And they are still so terrified of life, they feel the need to carry.
What I did a poor job of explaining is that even though I've been in that position, I still don't feel the need to carry.
z31maniac said:Antihero said:z31maniac said:Antihero said:z31maniac said:Antihero said:Breaking and entering even after being told there is someone in the residence is far far from petty.
Gun conversations go about the same as flat earth conversations, if you are vehemently against something it goes beyond a logical response and into an emotional response. Emotional responses are usually illogical and you cant solve an illogical problem with a logical answer.
I own guns because i live in the woods. Lack of guns isnt going to make me any safer. My AR is a 10mm, a bear worth caliber that is in carbine form. A carbine is very easy to shot in general and the AR system is very user friendly, i have taught people how to shoot with that very rifle.
My Junior High has several gun shows in it and has for as long as i can remember, i literally almost bought a gun infront of my old locker. There has never been a school shooting here.
The main reason why these discussions never go well is because you usually have someone that is very anti gun who is not very informed about guns attacking people who own guns. No one has ever ever ever changed their minds while people are yelling and insulting them.
You're moving the goal posts instead of answering my query, my particular question was about people carrying. You can re-read this page and the previous one.
I specifically asked what are people doing that they don't feel safe without a weapon. And I ask this as someone who grew up working in very rough neighborhoods and being robbed.
No im not, you asked "What are you guys doing that you dont feel safe without a pistol or rifle nearby?" you didnt specify carrying and it isnt implied unless you think most people have a rifle slung over their back. Goal posts were not moved and i answered it from my experience.
To answer your new question : walking in the woods. I carry when im walking in the woods.
Since its only fair, answer this for me : Why do you feel that you dont need to have a gun?
I like it! That's not a question I've ever been asked before.
I guess the only answer I can give is that I don't feel the "need" to carry. As I mentioned, I grew up working in very violent, and dangerous areas. QT gave us hazard pay because of the crime rates.
Sure, can something crazy happen anywhere? No doubt. But the likelyhood? It's incredibly low, incredibly low. I know the "better to not need it and have it" it's just not something that scares me. I've been in plenty of scary situations, a 1911 would not have helped me in any of them.Ok, so you are making a judgment based on personal experience and how this stimuli made you feel.
Heres 2 more questions for you:
Do you think that your life experience is shared by the vast majority of people?
What do you think the logical response would be if someone was in a situation that they felt the need for a gun but didnt have it would be?
Just like everyone makes judgments based on their personal experience. Not being an ass, I do like that you're asking pointed questions so we can see the other persons point of view. It's great, and so rarely happens on the internet.
I know that my life experience isn't shared by most people. Most people have never had a knife held at their throat while being told to empty the register. I completely understand that. My point is, I've been through these situations, when I was 16-17 I worked in areas that adults carrying a pistol would be afraid to go NOW. That doesn't make me any better than anyone else, I've just been in it and it doesn't scare me.That's a good question. I don't have an answer. Because it's not black and white. My girlfriend had her phone and purse stolen in a Walmart parking lot, at noon broad daylight, 2 months ago. The kid tapped her on the shoulder and by the time she turned around he grabbed her stuff and jumped into a truck. She didn't even get a chance to pull her mace. That's how these things often happen in the real world.
You arent being an ass, you are answering my questions well. No worries
You are right, people base their decisions off of their personal experience. Some peoples personal experience has led them to want a gun and thats a valid life choice as much as yours is.
You are also right that the world is not all black and white. Our society seems bound and determined to ran people into one of 2 camps always. Democrat or Republican. Conservative or Liberal. Left or Right when the reality is you have lots of options and most people are not on either extreme.
You are right too about thats how things often happen in the world. Bad things will always happen sometimes, it berkeleying sucks but somewhere there is an asshat looking to do asshat things. We wont ever live in a Star Trek like utopia where no one needs money and all things are happy and shiny.
The thing that the gun debate boils down to is this. Owning a gun in america is a right, its not an add on, its not a goal to seek, and its not a reward. Its a right. Its also not mandatory, if you dont want to own a gun that is your right too.
I am pro gun, make no mistake there. If you were to ask me why i own a gun i could say that it is because of my personal experience but the real reason is that i feel that i owe it to my loved ones to stay alive to the best of my ability. Its the reason i wear a seatbelt, watch my health, and dont do stupid dangerous things. I also feel that even in extreme circumstances i should to the best of my ability protect my loved ones from harm.
In reply to z31maniac :
I'm curious why you assume that anyone that carry's is doing so because of fear. Of all the people that I know that carry, and there are a lot of them, none do so out of fear. They do so with the knowledge that they and only they are in control of their own protection, be it from 2 or 4 legged predators. I've been chased by a pack of wild dogs as a child. I saw the fear and anger in my parents face. I know that those packs were thinned down dramatically because of the people of the county took care of them. There was no gov't faction to handle it. We went for evening walks and carried because of that .Not from fear, but from preperation.
So, why do you assume its only from fear? Or are you projecting?
oldopelguy said:In reply to z31maniac :
You are correct, not everyone walks around scared. But that's not what I said. The people who carry and the people who want to take guns away are both minorities. My point was that those two minorities probably have more in common with each other than either would admit.
If you look at your post, and Ian quoted it, you exactly said "We are all scared"
So you did say it.
I think me playing devil's advocate is making some think I'm anti-gun. Couldn't be further from the truth.
Antihero said:z31maniac said:Antihero said:z31maniac said:Antihero said:z31maniac said:Antihero said:Breaking and entering even after being told there is someone in the residence is far far from petty.
Gun conversations go about the same as flat earth conversations, if you are vehemently against something it goes beyond a logical response and into an emotional response. Emotional responses are usually illogical and you cant solve an illogical problem with a logical answer.
I own guns because i live in the woods. Lack of guns isnt going to make me any safer. My AR is a 10mm, a bear worth caliber that is in carbine form. A carbine is very easy to shot in general and the AR system is very user friendly, i have taught people how to shoot with that very rifle.
My Junior High has several gun shows in it and has for as long as i can remember, i literally almost bought a gun infront of my old locker. There has never been a school shooting here.
The main reason why these discussions never go well is because you usually have someone that is very anti gun who is not very informed about guns attacking people who own guns. No one has ever ever ever changed their minds while people are yelling and insulting them.
You're moving the goal posts instead of answering my query, my particular question was about people carrying. You can re-read this page and the previous one.
I specifically asked what are people doing that they don't feel safe without a weapon. And I ask this as someone who grew up working in very rough neighborhoods and being robbed.
No im not, you asked "What are you guys doing that you dont feel safe without a pistol or rifle nearby?" you didnt specify carrying and it isnt implied unless you think most people have a rifle slung over their back. Goal posts were not moved and i answered it from my experience.
To answer your new question : walking in the woods. I carry when im walking in the woods.
Since its only fair, answer this for me : Why do you feel that you dont need to have a gun?
I like it! That's not a question I've ever been asked before.
I guess the only answer I can give is that I don't feel the "need" to carry. As I mentioned, I grew up working in very violent, and dangerous areas. QT gave us hazard pay because of the crime rates.
Sure, can something crazy happen anywhere? No doubt. But the likelyhood? It's incredibly low, incredibly low. I know the "better to not need it and have it" it's just not something that scares me. I've been in plenty of scary situations, a 1911 would not have helped me in any of them.Ok, so you are making a judgment based on personal experience and how this stimuli made you feel.
Heres 2 more questions for you:
Do you think that your life experience is shared by the vast majority of people?
What do you think the logical response would be if someone was in a situation that they felt the need for a gun but didnt have it would be?
Just like everyone makes judgments based on their personal experience. Not being an ass, I do like that you're asking pointed questions so we can see the other persons point of view. It's great, and so rarely happens on the internet.
I know that my life experience isn't shared by most people. Most people have never had a knife held at their throat while being told to empty the register. I completely understand that. My point is, I've been through these situations, when I was 16-17 I worked in areas that adults carrying a pistol would be afraid to go NOW. That doesn't make me any better than anyone else, I've just been in it and it doesn't scare me.That's a good question. I don't have an answer. Because it's not black and white. My girlfriend had her phone and purse stolen in a Walmart parking lot, at noon broad daylight, 2 months ago. The kid tapped her on the shoulder and by the time she turned around he grabbed her stuff and jumped into a truck. She didn't even get a chance to pull her mace. That's how these things often happen in the real world.
You arent being an ass, you are answering my questions well. No worries
You are right, people base their decisions off of their personal experience. Some peoples personal experience has led them to want a gun and thats a valid life choice as much as yours is.
You are also right that the world is not all black and white. Our society seems bound and determined to ran people into one of 2 camps always. Democrat or Republican. Conservative or Liberal. Left or Right when the reality is you have lots of options and most people are not on either extreme.
You are right too about thats how things often happen in the world. Bad things will always happen sometimes, it berkeleying sucks but somewhere there is an asshat looking to do asshat things. We wont ever live in a Star Trek like utopia where no one needs money and all things are happy and shiny.
The thing that the gun debate boils down to is this. Owning a gun in america is a right, its not an add on, its not a goal to seek, and its not a reward. Its a right. Its also not mandatory, if you dont want to own a gun that is your right too.
I am pro gun, make no mistake there. If you were to ask me why i own a gun i could say that it is because of my personal experience but the real reason is that i feel that i owe it to my loved ones to stay alive to the best of my ability. Its the reason i wear a seatbelt, watch my health, and dont do stupid dangerous things. I also feel that even in extreme circumstances i should to the best of my ability protect my loved ones from harm.
Man, I would like to buy you a beer (if you imbibe), it's great to hear a dissenting viewpoint in a polite way!
I'm also pro-gun. As mentioned earlier, if someone showed up at my house to do harm, bullets and a big pit bull will be waiting.
I agree completely on life experiences shaping your views and how you want to handle your life. I guess I view my experiences differently than others might view their own, and their is nothing wrong with that.
Bob the REAL oil guy. said:In reply to z31maniac :
I'm curious why you assume that anyone that carry's is doing so because of fear. Of all the people that I know that carry, and there are a lot of them, none do so out of fear. They do so with the knowledge that they and only they are in control of their own protection, be it from 2 or 4 legged predators. I've been chased by a pack of wild dogs as a child. I saw the fear and anger in my parents face. I know that those packs were thinned down dramatically because of the people of the county took care of them. There was no gov't faction to handle it. We went for evening walks and carried because of that .Not from fear, but from preperation.
So, why do you assume its only from fear? Or are you projecting?
Projecting? That's funny.
Let's use your example of wild dogs. If you aren't afraid of them, why carry a gun to protect yourself against them?
I'm not married to this discussion one way or the other. I will admit to owning a couple of guns, and my wife also carries. She was the victim of a home invasion around 10 years ago when i was out of town, and it could have ended much worse if a neighbor had not intervened and stopped it.
My real question is this however. Would any of the proposed gun laws do anything at all to prevent these shootings? It is a question that no one seems to be asking legitimately, as each side is so passionate about the outcome. I say no, as most do not use the guns in question. This is a problem that does not have a simple solution, and right now we are in a perfect storm for the continued shootings.
Of course I'm sort of old now, but back in my day, many of the guys always had guns in their cars or trucks, and it was common knowledge. It also wasn't banned. No one shot up the school nor was it even a thought to do so. Why is it a problem now, why do kids feel the need to this? There are so many layers to this issue. Simply saying an assault rifle ban will do anything to fix I think sells finding a real solution short.
In my post the "we" referenced that I am part of the group that carries, not we including everyone. Sorry for not making that clear.
Also, I am much more likely to think negatively of someone for filling a page with quotes than I am for their internet espoused viewed on guns.
racerdave600 said:I'm not married to this discussion one way or the other. I will admit to owning a couple of guns, and my wife also carries. She was the victim of a home invasion around 10 years ago when i was out of town, and it could have ended much worse if a neighbor had not intervened and stopped it.
My real question is this however. Would any of the proposed gun laws do anything at all to prevent these shootings? It is a question that no one seems to be asking legitimately, as each side is so passionate about the outcome. I say no, as most do not use the guns in question. This is a problem that does not have a simple solution, and right now we are in a perfect storm for the continued shootings.
Of course I'm sort of old now, but back in my day, many of the guys always had guns in their cars or trucks, and it was common knowledge. It also wasn't banned. No one shot up the school nor was it even a thought to do so. Why is it a problem now, why do kids feel the need to this? There are so many layers to this issue. Simply saying an assault rifle ban will do anything to fix I think sells finding a real solution short.
Eventually, yes they would. We'd not see an immediate change though.
racerdave600 said:I'm not married to this discussion one way or the other. I will admit to owning a couple of guns, and my wife also carries. She was the victim of a home invasion around 10 years ago when i was out of town, and it could have ended much worse if a neighbor had not intervened and stopped it.
My real question is this however. Would any of the proposed gun laws do anything at all to prevent these shootings? It is a question that no one seems to be asking legitimately, as each side is so passionate about the outcome. I say no, as most do not use the guns in question. This is a problem that does not have a simple solution, and right now we are in a perfect storm for the continued shootings.
Of course I'm sort of old now, but back in my day, many of the guys always had guns in their cars or trucks, and it was common knowledge. It also wasn't banned. No one shot up the school nor was it even a thought to do so. Why is it a problem now, why do kids feel the need to this? There are so many layers to this issue. Simply saying an assault rifle ban will do anything to fix I think sells finding a real solution short.
I can tell you I do get worried about that. Good or bad, I don't have to travel for work anymore, so my better half is never at the house without me. But the thought of it. Whew, my BP is raging.
oldopelguy said:In my post the "we" referenced that I am part of the group that carries, not we including everyone. Sorry for not making that clear.
Also, I am much more likely to think negatively of someone for filling a page with quotes than I am for their internet espoused viewed on guns.
My apologies for misinterpreting the point you were trying to make.
In reply to z31maniac :
Not scared of them. Aware that there is danger to me and my wife and our dogs. I'm merely prepared for what comes at us. Why not be prepared? What's the option? hide in my house because I can't go outside? Not my style.
In reply to z31maniac :
The 2nd Amendment regards fighting against Tyranny of the US government, and foreign invaders.
Well since we have a military that no one could touch (not even bringing in the next 19 largest military spenders our are Allies), so that's not really a threat. Then when you go against Tyranny of the US government.........what's your AR and 1911 going to do against drones? Tanks? Fighter aircraft?
*The military would never turn their guns on the people*
So why again?
I'm just trying to play the devil's advocate. And when I take this stance, I have never received an answer beyond "it's our right."
You are right, but you are also wrong for the same reason. The military will most likely not turn their guns on citizens. Because the citizens have guns. No, the citizens would not win against the military and tanks. But there would be fighting and dying, on both sides. Which neither want. Play the same scenario without armed civilians. No fighting. No dying. No resistance. Just round the up. No fuss, no muss, and much more probable, especially in a desperate situation. Tell an army to engage armed citizens- probably not going to happen. Tell them to round unarmed people up- much more likely to get cooperation.
In reply to mtn :
Which is what I said way back on page one or two. Would better gun regulation stop shootings? No. Would they help? Probably. And I agree a new assault weapon bad would solve little and would not be a good use of political resources. Whatever decision will take time - many years - to see results and an angry mob also tends to be an impatient one.
I didn't really grow up in a gun household, but my father is a military historian, so I've read about them since I was old enough to read. I view guns more as a hobby. Not really any different than my cars or music gear. But like how my cars and guitars can serve other purposes beyond my simple enjoyment, guns have an additional purpose as well.
Unfortunately, as the political camps tend to be on the far sides of the debate, those in the middle hoping to find some sort of compromise end up staring at the backs of both parties when they aren't shouting over us.
I want to say again, it genuinely makes me happy to be able to discuss stuff like this, with differing viewpoints and without resorting to Ad Hominems,etc
I wish general society could me a bit more open like we all are.
mtn said:racerdave600 said:I'm not married to this discussion one way or the other. I will admit to owning a couple of guns, and my wife also carries. She was the victim of a home invasion around 10 years ago when i was out of town, and it could have ended much worse if a neighbor had not intervened and stopped it.
My real question is this however. Would any of the proposed gun laws do anything at all to prevent these shootings? It is a question that no one seems to be asking legitimately, as each side is so passionate about the outcome. I say no, as most do not use the guns in question. This is a problem that does not have a simple solution, and right now we are in a perfect storm for the continued shootings.
Of course I'm sort of old now, but back in my day, many of the guys always had guns in their cars or trucks, and it was common knowledge. It also wasn't banned. No one shot up the school nor was it even a thought to do so. Why is it a problem now, why do kids feel the need to this? There are so many layers to this issue. Simply saying an assault rifle ban will do anything to fix I think sells finding a real solution short.
Eventually, yes they would. We'd not see an immediate change though.
If so, how? If the measures being proposed are not of the weapons being used, how would any of these proposals help this situation? Not trying to stir this up, just curious as to how you think they would help. I don't disagree we probably need to have discussions on some limitations, and for what i am more in favor of, stricter laws on purchasing and licensing requirements. I am personally not for banning guns, but for keeping up with the ones we have. But even so, you can go buy a gun illegally, quickly and easily should you want one. Most of these shooting involve hand guns and other main stream guns however.
z31maniac said:
I wish general society could me a bit more open like we all are.
It would get boring.
z31maniac said:Antihero said:z31maniac said:Antihero said:z31maniac said:Antihero said:z31maniac said:Antihero said:Breaking and entering even after being told there is someone in the residence is far far from petty.
Gun conversations go about the same as flat earth conversations, if you are vehemently against something it goes beyond a logical response and into an emotional response. Emotional responses are usually illogical and you cant solve an illogical problem with a logical answer.
I own guns because i live in the woods. Lack of guns isnt going to make me any safer. My AR is a 10mm, a bear worth caliber that is in carbine form. A carbine is very easy to shot in general and the AR system is very user friendly, i have taught people how to shoot with that very rifle.
My Junior High has several gun shows in it and has for as long as i can remember, i literally almost bought a gun infront of my old locker. There has never been a school shooting here.
The main reason why these discussions never go well is because you usually have someone that is very anti gun who is not very informed about guns attacking people who own guns. No one has ever ever ever changed their minds while people are yelling and insulting them.
You're moving the goal posts instead of answering my query, my particular question was about people carrying. You can re-read this page and the previous one.
I specifically asked what are people doing that they don't feel safe without a weapon. And I ask this as someone who grew up working in very rough neighborhoods and being robbed.
No im not, you asked "What are you guys doing that you dont feel safe without a pistol or rifle nearby?" you didnt specify carrying and it isnt implied unless you think most people have a rifle slung over their back. Goal posts were not moved and i answered it from my experience.
To answer your new question : walking in the woods. I carry when im walking in the woods.
Since its only fair, answer this for me : Why do you feel that you dont need to have a gun?
I like it! That's not a question I've ever been asked before.
I guess the only answer I can give is that I don't feel the "need" to carry. As I mentioned, I grew up working in very violent, and dangerous areas. QT gave us hazard pay because of the crime rates.
Sure, can something crazy happen anywhere? No doubt. But the likelyhood? It's incredibly low, incredibly low. I know the "better to not need it and have it" it's just not something that scares me. I've been in plenty of scary situations, a 1911 would not have helped me in any of them.Ok, so you are making a judgment based on personal experience and how this stimuli made you feel.
Heres 2 more questions for you:
Do you think that your life experience is shared by the vast majority of people?
What do you think the logical response would be if someone was in a situation that they felt the need for a gun but didnt have it would be?
Just like everyone makes judgments based on their personal experience. Not being an ass, I do like that you're asking pointed questions so we can see the other persons point of view. It's great, and so rarely happens on the internet.
I know that my life experience isn't shared by most people. Most people have never had a knife held at their throat while being told to empty the register. I completely understand that. My point is, I've been through these situations, when I was 16-17 I worked in areas that adults carrying a pistol would be afraid to go NOW. That doesn't make me any better than anyone else, I've just been in it and it doesn't scare me.That's a good question. I don't have an answer. Because it's not black and white. My girlfriend had her phone and purse stolen in a Walmart parking lot, at noon broad daylight, 2 months ago. The kid tapped her on the shoulder and by the time she turned around he grabbed her stuff and jumped into a truck. She didn't even get a chance to pull her mace. That's how these things often happen in the real world.
You arent being an ass, you are answering my questions well. No worries
You are right, people base their decisions off of their personal experience. Some peoples personal experience has led them to want a gun and thats a valid life choice as much as yours is.
You are also right that the world is not all black and white. Our society seems bound and determined to ran people into one of 2 camps always. Democrat or Republican. Conservative or Liberal. Left or Right when the reality is you have lots of options and most people are not on either extreme.
You are right too about thats how things often happen in the world. Bad things will always happen sometimes, it berkeleying sucks but somewhere there is an asshat looking to do asshat things. We wont ever live in a Star Trek like utopia where no one needs money and all things are happy and shiny.
The thing that the gun debate boils down to is this. Owning a gun in america is a right, its not an add on, its not a goal to seek, and its not a reward. Its a right. Its also not mandatory, if you dont want to own a gun that is your right too.
I am pro gun, make no mistake there. If you were to ask me why i own a gun i could say that it is because of my personal experience but the real reason is that i feel that i owe it to my loved ones to stay alive to the best of my ability. Its the reason i wear a seatbelt, watch my health, and dont do stupid dangerous things. I also feel that even in extreme circumstances i should to the best of my ability protect my loved ones from harm.
Man, I would like to buy you a beer (if you imbibe), it's great to hear a dissenting viewpoint in a polite way!
I'm also pro-gun. As mentioned earlier, if someone showed up at my house to do harm, bullets and a big pit bull will be waiting.
I agree completely on life experiences shaping your views and how you want to handle your life. I guess I view my experiences differently than others might view their own, and their is nothing wrong with that.
If we both make it down to the Challenge next year ill take you up on it lol
racerdave600 said:mtn said:racerdave600 said:I'm not married to this discussion one way or the other. I will admit to owning a couple of guns, and my wife also carries. She was the victim of a home invasion around 10 years ago when i was out of town, and it could have ended much worse if a neighbor had not intervened and stopped it.
My real question is this however. Would any of the proposed gun laws do anything at all to prevent these shootings? It is a question that no one seems to be asking legitimately, as each side is so passionate about the outcome. I say no, as most do not use the guns in question. This is a problem that does not have a simple solution, and right now we are in a perfect storm for the continued shootings.
Of course I'm sort of old now, but back in my day, many of the guys always had guns in their cars or trucks, and it was common knowledge. It also wasn't banned. No one shot up the school nor was it even a thought to do so. Why is it a problem now, why do kids feel the need to this? There are so many layers to this issue. Simply saying an assault rifle ban will do anything to fix I think sells finding a real solution short.
Eventually, yes they would. We'd not see an immediate change though.
I don't disagree we probably need to have discussions on some limitations, and for what i am more in favor of, stricter laws on purchasing and licensing requirements. I am personally not for banning guns, but for keeping up with the ones we have. But even so, you can go buy a gun illegally, quickly and easily should you want one. Most of these shooting involve hand guns and other main stream guns however.
I'm like you. I'm in the middle. I don't want guns banned but I would be in favor of stricter laws on purchasing and licensing, like you said.
The thing is, if you suggest a middle of the road compromise; one side will say "You're banning guns" and the other side will say "You're letting guns run wild in the street". It's as if people cant come to a happy medium, a compromise on both sides for the sake of greater good. Will it work? Maybe, maybe not. Is it worth trying? Yep.
yupididit said:racerdave600 said:mtn said:racerdave600 said:I'm not married to this discussion one way or the other. I will admit to owning a couple of guns, and my wife also carries. She was the victim of a home invasion around 10 years ago when i was out of town, and it could have ended much worse if a neighbor had not intervened and stopped it.
My real question is this however. Would any of the proposed gun laws do anything at all to prevent these shootings? It is a question that no one seems to be asking legitimately, as each side is so passionate about the outcome. I say no, as most do not use the guns in question. This is a problem that does not have a simple solution, and right now we are in a perfect storm for the continued shootings.
Of course I'm sort of old now, but back in my day, many of the guys always had guns in their cars or trucks, and it was common knowledge. It also wasn't banned. No one shot up the school nor was it even a thought to do so. Why is it a problem now, why do kids feel the need to this? There are so many layers to this issue. Simply saying an assault rifle ban will do anything to fix I think sells finding a real solution short.
Eventually, yes they would. We'd not see an immediate change though.
I don't disagree we probably need to have discussions on some limitations, and for what i am more in favor of, stricter laws on purchasing and licensing requirements. I am personally not for banning guns, but for keeping up with the ones we have. But even so, you can go buy a gun illegally, quickly and easily should you want one. Most of these shooting involve hand guns and other main stream guns however.
I'm like you. I'm in the middle. I don't want guns banned but I would be in favor of stricter laws on purchasing and licensing, like you said.
The thing is, if you suggest a middle of the road compromise; one side will say "You're banning guns" and the other side will say "You're letting guns run wild in the street". It's as if people cant come to a happy medium, a compromise on both sides for the sake of greater good. Will it work? Maybe, maybe not. Is it worth trying? Yep.
You're exactly where I'm at. Why do most have this idea that a reasonable talk ends in Russia?
So who defines this compromise, and decides what is the "middle." Gun owners have been stripped of their rights little by little over years. It would be easy to argue that many of the current laws are way past the middle already.
Tell your wife you would like to have two affairs. When she counters with zero, go have one and see how she is with compromise.
We can all agree that criminals shouldn't get guns. Except for the criminals. But they don't really care, because they can get them anyway. Less of a waiting period too.
Well, let's agree on the mentally ill then. For sure, the mentally ill shouldn't have access to guns. But how do you define mentally ill? How long before they take the guns away from BiTurbo owners?
In reply to Boost_Crazy :
Both sides agree on a compromise. Not one side decides.
Your little example of my wife and I compromising on having affair has nothing to do with this topic and was an attempt to make the subject matter personal, and if that wasn't your objective then you're not even trying to keep this discussion civil.
Keep it inline and relatable, please.
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