Crude

GameBoy you have a point. And I realize that there are "Options" however all of those options are not the same as the readily available options in other industries. If I don't like the price of Iphones I buy a Droid. If I don't like the price of Pork I buy Beef. If I don't like the price of Gas I can ride my bike 12 miles to work, move closer to work at huge expense, or buy an electric care or something like that at huge expense. It's not really the same situation. If Gas where to cost 2x what it does today I might look at ridesharing but I really won't reduce my demand any and neither would most people simply because within reason they can't.

From what I understand, the tipping point is $4/gal (for regular) in the US. Above that threshold, demand starts to drop off significantly enough that it affects pricing. People drive less, combine trips, limit discretionary travel, etc. It appears to be mostly psychological.

My original question was less about supply and demand, more about how commodity markets interact with retail markets. And while someone with an agenda can turn any conversation towards politics (even one about Miatas and E30s), that was not my intent and I was quite shocked to see how quickly folks cowered and how eager staff was to threaten.

Or maybe I'm just naive.

Well, off the top of my head, summer is ending, china and India crude demand is dropping as at least their economy is stagnating lately, so it makes sense that crude futures would drop.

GameboyRMH wrote: If it got so expensive that nuclear conversions on large ships seemed like a good option they'd lose market share.

Now that has piqued my interest. Has this ever been done?

bludroptop wrote: From what I understand, the tipping point is $4/gal (for regular) in the US...

If that is true, why are there so many cars in the freeway in Los Angeles?

(gas has been above $4 a gallon for quite a while here and I still see plenty of full sized SUV commute vehicles)

It's really more of frog in the slowly boiling water kind of thing. As long as the price moves slowly, people quickly forget. I suspect though, if most people actually did a bit of accounting, or paid for their gas in cash (you know, so you actually have some idea what they are spending) many might rethink the large vehicles.

Same crap happens with all traded commodities.........corn, soybeans, wheat, oil, etc. Of those 4 I listed, only Oil doesn't have a cap per day on how much it can rise and how much it can fall.......

BRRRRAAAAAPPPPPPP!!

Pardon me.

yamaha wrote: corn, soybeans, wheat, oil, etc. Of those 4 I listed, only Oil doesn't have a cap per day on how much it can rise and how much it can fall.......

Explain yourself. I've not heard of this. Reduce my ignorance.

in commodities, soybeans, corn, and wheat have a daily cap as to how high the price can climb. They also have a cap on how much they can fall in a day. Generally +30 cents and -45 cents IIRC....I'll have to google fu on my phone after bit(don't use google on the work compy....too much crap)

In reply to yamaha:

http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/Price-Limit-Update.html

apparently its changed in recent years......

I hate it when people screw the pooch, do everything at the last minute, and make excuses for themselves. Can you really not man up and admit that you are poor at time management considering everything you had to do really could have been done in a better/more timely manner?

Sky_Render wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote: If it got so expensive that nuclear conversions on large ships seemed like a good option they'd lose market share.

Now that has piqued my interest. Has this ever been done?

Not a conversion but there's one commercial nuclear ship in operation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevmorput

Here's a nuclear-to-diesel conversion:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutsu_%28ship%29#RV_Mirai

HiTempguy wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote: so they will buy 200% margin Slurpees, beer, those hotdogs on rollers and candy.

Or the best, 1000% bottled water

The margin on bottled water is razor thin. The retailer marks it up the same percentage as anything else, but the actual manufacturing margin just isn't there. You think, hey, I get water for a penny per 10 gallons at home, that must be some markup. You are not considering the filter, which is expensive, the bottle, cap, label, tray, shrink wrap, pallet (rental, probably), labor, fixed costs, variable costs, transportation to the DC, and a dozen other costs. Add it all up and that 1000% shrinks down to maybe 2% for the maker (if they're lucky) and 3% for the retailer (big box store, look up their last year end statement), or a whopping 20% for the quickie mart, maybe.

So, don't go dissin' no water bottles, doode.

Sky_Render wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote: If it got so expensive that nuclear conversions on large ships seemed like a good option they'd lose market share.

Now that has piqued my interest. Has this ever been done?

There was a nuclear powered US merchant ship. I believe it sailed in the 70's. Don't remember the name, but I'm sure your google-fu could find it. I sailed with an engineer from one of the merchant academies with a degree in nuclear engineering specifically to work on that ship. I asked him about it and he said that the protests whenever it went somewhere, security, etc., pretty much killed the commercial utility of it. It would be interesting to know what ever happened to that thing. Probably sitting in the white fleet somewhere with a new paint job and a new name, or scrapped ages ago.

Dr. Hess wrote:

Sky_Render wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote: If it got so expensive that nuclear conversions on large ships seemed like a good option they'd lose market share.

Now that has piqued my interest. Has this ever been done?

There was a nuclear powered US merchant ship. I believe it sailed in the 70's. Don't remember the name, but I'm sure your google-fu could find it. I sailed with an engineer from one of the merchant academies with a degree in nuclear engineering specifically to work on that ship. I asked him about it and he said that the protests whenever it went somewhere, security, etc., pretty much killed the commercial utility of it. It would be interesting to know what ever happened to that thing. Probably sitting in the white fleet somewhere with a new paint job and a new name, or scrapped ages ago.

From Wiki..... Merchant shipsNuclear powered, civil merchant ships have not developed beyond a few experimental ships. The US-built NS Savannah, completed in 1962, was primarily a demonstration of civil nuclear power and was too small and expensive to operate economically as a merchant ship. The design was too much of a compromise, being neither an efficient freighter nor a viable passenger liner. The German-built Otto Hahn, a cargo ship and research facility, sailed some 650,000 nautical miles (1,200,000 km) on 126 voyages over 10 years without any technical problems.[citation needed] However, it proved too expensive to operate and was converted to diesel. The Japanese Mutsu was dogged by technical and political problems. Its reactor had significant radiation leakage and fishermen protested against the vessel's operation. All of these three ships used low-enriched uranium.

Sevmorput, a Soviet and later Russian LASH carrier with icebreaking capability, has operated successfully on the Northern Sea Route since it was commissioned in 1988. As of 2012[update], it is the only nuclear-powered merchant ship in service.

Recently there has been renewed interest in nuclear propulsion, and some proposals have been drafted. For example, the cargo coaster[13] is a new design for a nuclear cargo ship.

Yup, the Savanah. I think it was still going in the mid 70's. I remember seeing pictures of it in my union newspaper.

it's not just fuel ... I been in the grocery store and watched the bag boys going up and down the rows putting new ( higher ) prices on goods ... the excuse is that the supplier has raised prices ...

wbjones wrote: it's not just fuel ... I been in the grocery store and watched the bag boys going up and down the rows putting new ( higher ) prices on goods ... the excuse is that the supplier has raised prices ...

Food's gotta get there somehow! And please don't get me banned over a tyrade on subsidizing farmers.

hey Poop .. my point was that the product on the shelves shouldn't be affected by the price increases from their suppliers ... the stuff on the shelves is already paid for

In reply to wbjones:

Nah, they operate on a margin......same as my employer does. If we know the cost is going up, what we have on the shelf goes up due to the replacement cost of inventory. And well, we probably have close to 1mil worth of cnc stuff, abrasives, and coolant in stock......at just my branch. When sandvik, iscar, Walter, norton, cimcool get the wild hair under their rears they want to raise the prices, they're generally substantial.

Poop.......don't get me banned over arguing that only the "big" farmers seem to get the subsidies.....

wbjones wrote: hey Poop .. my point was that the product on the shelves shouldn't be affected by the price increases from their suppliers ... the stuff on the shelves is already paid for

Then again, if you know you're getting a pay-cut next month, do you start trimming expenses now or wait until you see that lower number on the deposit form?