Dealers... Seriously, guys??

In reply to Keith Tanner:

Ooooo, you'll get me fired up on trade-ins, back in the day, I took my granny to buy THE Buick Century the dealer advertised so low in the paper, you know the come-on, it's so low it gets you to the dealer, but doesn't really exist when you get there. Well before ever talking to the salesman we found THE car, you could read the grease marker lot numbers written on the windshield in the newspaper ad, same numbers on the car we found tucked away in the corner of the lot.

Then we found a salesman, newspaper in hand, "We want this car." Salesman, song and dance, "I'm not sure if that car is still here?" I respond, "sure it is, want me to take you to it." None to happy salesman sold us the car.

During the paperwork stage, we were going over all the numbers, and there was a $500 credit with some abbreviations by it, when we asked, we were reluctantly told it was the trade-in for the old Dynasty granny was replacing. We never once mentioned trading the car in, we never discussed a value for the car, we were expected to just accept that they'd give granny $500 for her car. We not so nicely declined. We left the dealer with a new '02 Buick Century, and granny's old Dynasty, which she sold about 3 weeks later for $2,500.

Crooks!

Granny was so put-out over the ordeal, when they took the new car back for delivery prep/cleaning she made me go with them so they wouldn't, in her words, "switch cars on us."

• Lee

Datsun1500 wrote: In reply to Xceler8x: Carmax is the most expensive place to buy a car.

This, they started the whole "pay more for a used car" thing years ago.

At least Carmax stopped blatantly lying to their customers on their TV ads. They used to advertise they never sold cars that had bory/paint work. Yet I used to sell them bumpers and hoods/trunks left and right.

I highly doubt I'll ever buy 100% new again. Last new vehicle we bought was our GMC and I got it with GM supplier discount and a decent 0% financing. It's just much easier to save $10k to wait for the vehicle to be 2 years old.

"Decent 0% financing". How much better does it have to be to beat "decent"?

The only reason I bought our truck new was because the resale values are so high, our fleet discount was basically equivalent to buying a three year old used truck.

Flyin' Miata is actually a used car dealer - mostly because it's useful to have transit plates on hand for building cars. And the law is quite clear that if you advertise a car for a specific price, you have to identify the actual car like the one Lee found. Of course, nothing stops the dealer from lying to you when you get there, but the car does have to exist.

I figure for every one of “us” that goes in well prepared, has researched the price, maybe is OK with having some uncomfortable conversations, etc., there are probably 2-3 members of the general public that get totally raped and either never know or just figure it’s part of the deal.

Imagine somebody’s mom or grandma who’s trusting, maybe a little naïve, treated nicely by the dealer and maybe hasn’t ever done the whole buy a new car thing for whatever reason (divorced, widowed, “oh my Bill always used to take care of that…,” etc) – they can get completely bent over and never know.

KyAllroad wrote: I think what irks most of us is the not knowing. If I buy a car and walk away wondering if the dealer is dancing a jig over the shafting he just gave me I feel bad about the whole experience. If they would be more transparent about it and admit that they are making X dollars on me we can negotiate over what we each feel is a reasonable amount for the dealer to make. I spent a few miserable months back in the '90s selling new cars and HATED it. Sort of like the worst part of buying a car repeated every day.

You are WAAY too worried about someone taking advantage of you. Stop making it so personal.

Take the pricetag OFF the car. Decide what you are willing to pay for it.

Now look at the price. Deal or no deal?

You are not buying a car. You are doing some emotional self-flaggelation thing that has nothing to do with cars, prices, or fairness. Stop it.

The last new car I bought (which was only the third one I've ever bought), I walked in, paid the price they asked, and drove away. I'm happy. Because I CHOOSE to be. I never looked back.

I priced the new car on the manufactures site. Then I got an idea what my trade in was worth. Had in mind what I was willing to pay when I went to the dealer but didn't mention it. The sales mangers offer was with in $100 of my price. Deal made, no haggle.

Duke wrote: You don't ever have to haggle. You're always welcome to pay sticker price, no questions asked. Feel free to do so at your convenience.

Not in Las Vegas, friend. You can not buy a car for MSRP here without some serious haggling. Come try it.

Can you control your emotions and walk away? Do you have an internet connection and opposable thumbs? Then you have the upper hand on every dealer, ever. It's as simple, and as difficult, as that.

I'm glad that there are people willing to pay sticker for a car. That leaves more for me when I go in to haggle. The dealers need to make their money, better from someone else. I've never paid close to sticker on a new car. First I decide what I want. Then I find a dealer that has the exact car I want. Then I try to make the deal. If it doesn't work, there are plenty of dealers and (usually) plenty of cars. There isn't much skill involved. You just need to know how much you want to pay. If it is equal or greater then the dealer will accept, you have a deal. If not, try again at another dealer. I realize that this may be different for other parts of the country, but there is no shortage of dealers near me.

Xceler8x wrote: All of this is truly horse $hit. You don't haggle over rice krispies at the store. Why should you have to haggle with a middle man over the price of a car? I'm with Keith. I don't like haggling. You can and should expect to be able to buy a car without having to jump through hoops with a dealer.

Come with me and I'll take you to several shops where haggling over even rice krispies is the norm. Indeed, you can haggle over any price, it's merely a legal offer. You can legally counter-offer. They of course can reject your counter-offer, and many will.

I understand not liking to haggle. But make no mistake, the initial offer from the shop is to maximize their profits, not to minimize your cost.

You are WAAY too worried about someone taking advantage of you. Stop making it so personal.

Take the pricetag OFF the car. Decide what you are willing to pay for it.

Now look at the price. Deal or no deal?

You are not buying a car. You are doing some emotional self-flaggelation thing that has nothing to do with cars, prices, or fairness. Stop it.

The last new car I bought (which was only the third one I've ever bought), I walked in, paid the price they asked, and drove away. I'm happy. Because I CHOOSE to be. I never looked back.

That's a level of personal enlightenment that many just don't have. Would you feel as happy if you knew the dealer made $5000 off your sale when you could have saved yourself $4500. If the powerball ever comes through for me and I can throw my money around I'll be happy to pay asking price but until then I want to get the very most I can for my hard earned dollars.

I didn't say I paid too much.

I said I was content.

Again, stop making it about your feelings.

I like buying cars at dealers. My favorite tactic is silence. I like to sometime during the negotiation phase just stop talking and stare at them like I am deep in thought. I always come up with the price I am willing to pay and I just say here is my price take it or leave it. I also tell them which other nearby (or not so nearby dealers) have a similar car with similar options and that I don't really care which dealer I buy it from. Sometimes they say things like, "I am only making $100 on this" or something and I tell them that is more than fair in my book. One time I put in an offer on a last years model truck. It was February of the following year, so this truck had been sitting on the lot for a while. I made a ridiculous offer, the salesman laughed and told me if the boss would sell it for that price he would've bought it already himself, but that the policy was that they had to take all offers to the manager. I figured they would want to move the thing and it was a 2WD truck in a 4WD sorta place (Idaho). Perhaps, they secretly high fived in the back room, I do not know, but as long as you get the vehicle for the price you are willing to pay then it doesn't really matter.

EvanR wrote:

Duke wrote: You don't ever have to haggle. You're always welcome to pay sticker price, no questions asked. Feel free to do so at your convenience.

Not in Las Vegas, friend. You can not buy a car for MSRP here without some *serious* haggling. Come try it.

Then go a little distance out of town to buy - get away from that giant pool of instant-gratification poor-decision-making suckers with cash to burn that Vegas dealers have the luxury of wallowing in.

C'mon, you have to make some effort on your own behalf if you expect to get a good deal.

Duke wrote:

EvanR wrote:

Duke wrote: You don't ever have to haggle. You're always welcome to pay sticker price, no questions asked. Feel free to do so at your convenience.

Not in Las Vegas, friend. You can not buy a car for MSRP here without some *serious* haggling. Come try it.

Then go a little distance out of town to buy - get away from that giant pool of instant-gratification poor-decision-making suckers with cash to burn that Vegas dealers have the luxury of wallowing in. C'mon, you have to make *some* effort on your own behalf if you expect to get a good deal.

"A little distance out of town" in Las Vegas is 250+ miles one way to LA, Phoenix, or SLC. They've got you and they know it.

OK, how much is a one-way ticket to any of those cities?

Here's a hint - well under $100. So add $100 for a night's motel stay, $50 for gas and $50 for meals. That's $300 added to the price of the new car you buy in Phoenix, versus the "intense dickering" needed to even get down to near MSRP in Vegas. I bet you can come out pretty well ahead.

Fly out on a Friday afternoon, pick up the car Saturday morning, be back in Vegas by midnight Saturday night, with Sunday to recover for work on Monday.

Like I said, at least put in a little effort to help yourself.

EvanR wrote:

Duke wrote:

EvanR wrote:

Duke wrote: You don't ever have to haggle. You're always welcome to pay sticker price, no questions asked. Feel free to do so at your convenience.

Not in Las Vegas, friend. You can not buy a car for MSRP here without some *serious* haggling. Come try it.

Then go a little distance out of town to buy - get away from that giant pool of instant-gratification poor-decision-making suckers with cash to burn that Vegas dealers have the luxury of wallowing in. C'mon, you have to make *some* effort on your own behalf if you expect to get a good deal.

"A little distance out of town" in Las Vegas is 250+ miles one way to LA, Phoenix, or SLC. They've got you and they know it.

Cars I've owned and where they came from (I live in Tulsa, OK):

'07 4Runner, flew to Austin
'06 Miata, drove to Paris, TX to trade in my car
'91 318is, Flew to NYC
'88 325is, shipped in from FL
'06 350Z OKC

And the 3 new vehicles I purchased I called every dealer with in 300 miles to see who would make me the best deal.

As someone who may need to purchase a new vehicle by the end of the year, where do you kind folks recommend researching "fair prices" on vehicles?

Yes, I have heard that Vegas is much like an island surrounded by sand not water since it takes 3-4 hours to get "anywhere else."

I also wonder if the dealerships out there are owned by a very small few. That is, does the same guy or just a couple of guys control the whole market? No small dealerships still left.
I have seen the cheazy, sleazy, used car, 1/2 hour TV shows they run out there.

Datsun1500 wrote: In reply to Xceler8x: Carmax is the most expensive place to buy a car.

You'd think right? My deal was right on. If you wait long enough and search enough you can get a deal there. I did. I actually found two.

More lots will go this route because the general buying public really hates the confrontational haggling method of buying a used or new car.

Sky_Render wrote: As someone who may need to purchase a new vehicle by the end of the year, where do you kind folks recommend researching "fair prices" on vehicles?

I usually start with the manufacturer's website and build what I want. that gives a place to start. Then go to NADA, Edmunds, Autotrader, Truecar, etc. Google "New Car Prices" and check them all out. Then I take an average and knock at least $2K off that to give me a place to start. Some times I have done better when there were sales going on.

Looks like you can buy an $18,385 Dart for $16,748 ($1,637 discount) at a Las Vegas dealer.

And that's without even haggling.

I'm a fan of flat price/no haggle. That is why I shop where I do. That and the prices are fair.

neon4891 wrote: I'm a fan of flat price/no haggle. That is why I shop where I do. That and the prices are fair.

That's pretty much what I do. That's just how much I hate dealing with a dealer.