Installing a manufactured wood burning fireplace. It will be totally compliant with Chapter 10 of the IRC and UL 103, 127, and 1618.
I applied for a permit and now all my friends are saying I should have just done it and not applied. Do I continue building it, or do I wait 8-15 days for approval?
So new to this.
Well you already applied. So now is the waiting game. :)
Around here, if I applied for permit (like I did with my sunroom I built), and before approval I started working, once the inspector came, "mid work," I would be in a world of hurt. We have a neighbor redid kitchen 2 years ago, no permit. Another neighbor called public works on them - HUGE fine.
Whereas we have someone here tearing down and almost building a new house - 0 permit pulled. Be interesting to see how that works out.....
If I want to do things without permit, then I don't apply for one. 
I just don't know where that line is. It's obvious for things like excavating for a pool or adding an attached structure (yes, get the permit), and for things like renovating or a patio roof (don't get a permit), but I don't know where that line is between "no one cares" and "oh, you're in trouble."
I'm also wondering if (when they come to inspect the fireplace) they'll notice my new subfloor and start asking questions.
call and cancel the permit, tell them you've got other interests. it's not a lie.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:I just don't know where that line is. It's obvious for things like excavating for a pool or adding an attached structure (yes, get the permit), and for things like renovating or a patio roof (don't get a permit), but I don't know where that line is between "no one cares" and "oh, you're in trouble."
Yeah I think depends on your geography. Around here they are pretty strict. Interestingly - redoing my whole pool - need - 0 permit. Go figure. My renovating the patio (which was the sunroom) - required full permit. Then again I always give a whiskey to my permit guy every year as "christmas gift"
If you call and cancel permit around here - they come sniffing around..
Good luck. I am sure you are fine.
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:call and cancel the permit, tell them you've got other interests. it's not a lie.
That sounds like calling the cops and saying "so hypothetically let's say I murdered someone..." and then calling back and saying "nevermind."
not as bad as asking where's the last place they'd look for a body.
mr2s2000elise said:Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:I just don't know where that line is. It's obvious for things like excavating for a pool or adding an attached structure (yes, get the permit), and for things like renovating or a patio roof (don't get a permit), but I don't know where that line is between "no one cares" and "oh, you're in trouble."
Yeah I think depends on your geography. Around here they are pretty strict. Interestingly - redoing my whole pool - need - 0 permit. Go figure. My renovating the patio (which was the sunroom) - required full permit. Then again I always give a whiskey to my permit guy every year as "christmas gift"
If you call and cancel permit around here - they come sniffing around..
Good luck. I am sure you are fine.
The problem I'm discovering around here (and maybe lots of places are like this) is that they seem pretty clueless. I asked about re-doing my 8x12 patio roof. One person said I needed a permit and it had to comply with some wacko code that required 6x6 posts and another person said it doesn't need any permit because I'm simply replacing one non-load structure with another one. I guess the first person assumed that this was a new patio or something.
But I can add a detached structure up to 800 sf with no permit as long as I comply with zoning setbacks and impermeable area requirements. Confusing.
Even my insurance company is confused. I called last year to ask how much my rates would go up and that person said about $50/yr. I called yesterday to ask what they needed from me (copy of the inspection, do they need to inspect, etc) and the agent himself said that he needs nothing. No rate increase, no notification, no nothing because it's not an enclosed wood stove.
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:not as bad as asking where's the last place they'd look for a body.
Haaa.
If no one can see the changes ( as in interior work) I don't bother. I've had my wood burner since 05 and no body's complained.
I did use big words. Hopefully they get confused and just stamp it approved. I included pretty 3D renderings of the whole thing so it at least looks like I know what I'm doing.
rustybugkiller said:If no one can see the changes ( as in interior work) I don't bother. I've had my wood burner since 05 and no body's complained.
My thought was that yes, it's interior so no one will notice... except for the new puffy clouds of smoke coming from a shiny stainless pipe sticking through my roof. I'm confident my neighbors don't care. We're all friends, but three doors down? Next street over? I didn't want some nosy busybody giving me headaches about it.
Yea, you applied, now you gotta wait and jump through all their hoops.
Keep the permit they give you though. Laminate it, and hang it up anytime you do other work if your worried about it.
General rule, if it can't be seen from the street, you don't need one.unless your neighbors are shiny happy people
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:The problem I'm discovering around here (and maybe lots of places are like this) is that they seem pretty clueless. I asked about re-doing my 8x12 patio roof. One person said I needed a permit and it had to comply with some wacko code that required 6x6 posts and another person said it doesn't need any permit because I'm simply replacing one non-load structure with another one. I guess the first person assumed that this was a new patio or something.
But I can add a detached structure up to 800 sf with no permit as long as I comply with zoning setbacks and impermeable area requirements. Confusing.
Even my insurance company is confused. I called last year to ask how much my rates would go up and that person said about $50/yr. I called yesterday to ask what they needed from me (copy of the inspection, do they need to inspect, etc) and the agent himself said that he needs nothing. No rate increase, no notification, no nothing because it's not an enclosed wood stove.
I WISH the inspectors around here were clueless!! Often I feel, I am dealing with guys who have Ph.D. from Caltech and MIT!
RevRico said:Yea, you applied, now you gotta wait and jump through all their hoops.
Keep the permit they give you though. Laminate it, and hang it up anytime you do other work if your worried about it.
General rule, if it can't be seen from the street, you don't need one.unless your neighbors are shiny happy people
Fortunately my immediate neighbors on all four sides rock. We all picnic together on holidays and they're great people. I don't really know much about the people down the street except that one keeps bugging me to go to her church because I evidently need a better Jesus than my church can offer.
However, she may be right. I currently attend St. Mattress every Sunday morning.
Is the Fireplace finished? Wrapped up? How hard would it be to move a few crucial pieces?
There is another element as well - some types of permits only get inspected once their finished. You might want to feel that one out with the municipality.
Finally, permits are really only necessary if someone later on is interested in their existence - ie, an insurer or future owner. I say this as a former permit tech for two local government. The permit is there as a protection to the people occupying the space.
If you don't have a huge family to worry about, really the only person liable for your mistakes is you, so long as you don't sell the house with those mistakes and potentially endanger someone else.
Thanks all. I feel better about applying - if for no other reason than the potential for poopy neighbors.
If they deny it, I'll have more questions.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:mr2s2000elise said:Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:I just don't know where that line is. It's obvious for things like excavating for a pool or adding an attached structure (yes, get the permit), and for things like renovating or a patio roof (don't get a permit), but I don't know where that line is between "no one cares" and "oh, you're in trouble."
Yeah I think depends on your geography. Around here they are pretty strict. Interestingly - redoing my whole pool - need - 0 permit. Go figure. My renovating the patio (which was the sunroom) - required full permit. Then again I always give a whiskey to my permit guy every year as "christmas gift"
If you call and cancel permit around here - they come sniffing around..
Good luck. I am sure you are fine.
The problem I'm discovering around here (and maybe lots of places are like this) is that they seem pretty clueless. I asked about re-doing my 8x12 patio roof. One person said I needed a permit and it had to comply with some wacko code that required 6x6 posts and another person said it doesn't need any permit because I'm simply replacing one non-load structure with another one. I guess the first person assumed that this was a new patio or something.
But I can add a detached structure up to 800 sf with no permit as long as I comply with zoning setbacks and impermeable area requirements. Confusing.
Even my insurance company is confused. I called last year to ask how much my rates would go up and that person said about $50/yr. I called yesterday to ask what they needed from me (copy of the inspection, do they need to inspect, etc) and the agent himself said that he needs nothing. No rate increase, no notification, no nothing because it's not an enclosed wood stove.
I'm very suspect about your agent's advice. Typically just having a fireplace is a noticeable increase in premiums because of the fire/smoke risk.
I'd grab a copy of your policy and read it front to back.
I've gone down a similar path right now. We're having an old, ground level deck torn off and a (much larger) poured patio done. Part of the patio will end up with a 12x12 roofed pergola for my grills. I'm having one outlet run to the covered area. I originally asked the sales guy for the builders if I needed to get a permit. His answer was "..........I don't think so....." Yeah, that's not going to work for me, because it means you don't know or commonly ignore it.
I went to the county inspectors' office and they were quite helpful. Because my structure is permanent (concreted in) and has a roof, I need a permit. I need a separate permit for the electrical. They will need to do an inspection once the forms are up for the concrete and the electrical is laid out. Once okayed we can pour concrete and then sometime this fall I'll build the roof. Once complete they will do a final. According to the folks at the office, it's fairly perfunctory since none of it's attached to the house.
Will it be that easy? I'm betting not. I'm also betting I could have done all this without a permit and no one would care. But, it IS outside even though it's in the back yard, and I know some municipalities use automated Google satellite search software to compare roof lines looking for things like that.
I was flat out amazed to see permits being pulled for things like adding an interior light switch to an existing outlet box in your own home or replacing a faucet set. If I'm doing major plumbing tie ins or tapping a new circuit into the main box, I can't imagine getting a permit. But....I try to play be the rules with local government if I possibly can.
pheller said:Is the Fireplace finished? Wrapped up? How hard would it be to move a few crucial pieces?
There is another element as well - some types of permits only get inspected once their finished. You might want to feel that one out with the municipality.
Finally, permits are really only necessary if someone later on is interested in their existence - ie, an insurer or future owner. I say this as a former permit tech for two local government. The permit is there as a protection to the people occupying the space.
If you don't have a huge family to worry about, really the only person liable for your mistakes is you, so long as you don't sell the house with those mistakes and potentially endanger someone else.
Fireplace is not finished. I tore out the drywall and did some preliminary framing. Tore out the drywall because it's a 2x6 wall and that allowed me to recess the back of the firebox another 5.5" and puts me in a more favorable place to run the chimney without hitting a rafter. If they say no-way, I can simply replace the drywall. I am glad that I tore it out regardless because I found some knob and tube wiring still in service. Worse yet, it had a blind (un boxed) connection in the middle which was just twisted together and wrapped with fabric tape. Suffice it to say that anything I've done so far is squarely in the "other needed repairs" category with a lean toward preparing for the fireplace.
I will feel out the inspection process. My plan was to basically get it fully installed minus the skins on the framing so they can measure and visually inspect. They won't need to inspect the skin and stone veneer... at least none of the Chapter 10 code nor the UL standards have anything to do with the surface treatment. They need to see that I'm complying with UL 1618, 127, and 103 which is a no-brainer. UL 103 is a stamp on the chimney, UL 127 is a stamp on the manufactured firebox, and UL 1618 is distance to combustibles which is outlined clearly and I own a brain and a tape measure 
Pull the permit. Whatever extra inspection and bureaucracy you have to go through now is nothing compared to what will happen if the building department notices what you did without one... or if your homeowner's insurance suddenly drops you because you didn't.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:RevRico said:Yea, you applied, now you gotta wait and jump through all their hoops.
Keep the permit they give you though. Laminate it, and hang it up anytime you do other work if your worried about it.
General rule, if it can't be seen from the street, you don't need one.unless your neighbors are shiny happy people
Fortunately my immediate neighbors on all four sides rock. We all picnic together on holidays and they're great people. I don't really know much about the people down the street except that one keeps bugging me to go to her church because I evidently need a better Jesus than my church can offer.
However, she may be right. I currently attend St. Mattress every Sunday morning.
It never entered your mind that perhaps her inviting you to her church was a stepping stone to joining you at your church?
If your house ever has a fire and an insurance claim gets filed you'll be glad you got a permit & followed building codes.
NOT A TA said:Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:However, she may be right. I currently attend St. Mattress every Sunday morning.
It never entered your mind that perhaps her inviting you to her church was a stepping stone to joining you at your church?
silly question, Mr. TA. Brown Chicken Brown Cow is Curtis' theme song.
Agreed with the points above about insurance and neighbors, and will add that it's likely to be one less headache if you ever sell. I spent a bunch of time, stress, and a chunk of money getting things that I had professionally done, which *should* have been permitted but were never followed through on (like just never called for the final inspection) reinspected when we sold and the buyers and their inspector had questions. What a pain.
You don't need a permit to do preliminary framing or rip out drywall. In this case, an inspector will chalk it up "investigative work." You were merely taking a peak inside the walls. Especially because you're not moving structural walls. It's my understanding a fireplace chase is an accessory wall (like a closet) and doesn't need a permit for it's framing. If suddenly your house was missing a wall when an inspector walked in, he might be more concerned about that than the lack of permit for the fireplace.
I wouldn't go any further until you get the permit, or you determine if they only do a "inspection of completion".
Another thing to worry about however is you've done a lot of other work in the house - will they notice that other work and ask questions about it, or is it all wrapped up now?
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