Did Obama jump the shark??

DILYSI Dave wrote: I'm just amazed that you are 100% sure of something as broad and unknown as the origins of the universe. There are very few things I'm 100% sure of, and something that happened a long time ago (apparently somewhere between 6,000 and 5 billion years), before mankind existed, certainly isn't one of them.

me?

I don't touch creationism thing... I let people believe what they want to believe there, so long as they leave me to my beliefs.

Shim wrote: I guess that really got out of hand, when I called the guy who tried the "I'm old and therefore know better" argument, old and whiny.. Great argument ..

Being "old" just adds to a perspective but doesn't make an opinion better. But, being "young" without that perspective doesn't make anyone's opinion better, either.

I may be old enough to be your father; were that the case, we'd have some "interesting" discussions. And I'd love giving my grandchildren an "aged" perspective that their parents haven't earned - because their parents are "young", too.

Just sayin........

Shim wrote: me? I don't touch creationism thing... I let people believe what they want to believe there, so long as they leave me to my beliefs.

This statement is almost enough to redeem this thread. There may be hope for it yet.

Shim wrote: me? I don't touch creationism thing... I let people believe what they want to believe there, so long as they leave me to my beliefs.

Where's the real iggy and what have you done with him?

Oh, and I think it's between 3000 and 12 billion years, Dave, but it might be 15 billion. They just keep finding stuff further out there.

And what's really funny would be "proving" that creationism is false, but not bothering to show that Darwinism is just as false and relies on "then a miracle happens" in order for it all to work out.

Shim wrote:

DILYSI Dave wrote: I'm just amazed that you are 100% sure of something as broad and unknown as the origins of the universe. There are very few things I'm 100% sure of, and something that happened a long time ago (apparently somewhere between 6,000 and 5 billion years), before mankind existed, certainly isn't one of them.

me? I don't touch creationism thing... I let people believe what they want to believe there, so long as they leave me to my beliefs.

Sorry - no, not you. The 100% sure that the other guys are wrong guy. :)

oldsaw wrote:

Shim wrote: I guess that really got out of hand, when I called the guy who tried the "I'm old and therefore know better" argument, old and whiny.. Great argument ..

Being "old" just adds to a perspective but doesn't make an opinion better. But, being "young" without that perspective doesn't make anyone's opinion better, either. I may be old enough to be your father; were that the case, we'd have some "interesting" discussions. And I'd love giving my grandchildren an "aged" perspective that their parents haven't earned - because their parents are "young", too. Just sayin........

the "I'm old" argument smacks of... "but we've always done it this way" That is all I am saying

Dr. Hess wrote: Where's the real iggy and what have you done with him?

Reveling in the knowledge that whatever else you spew out, will generally be incorrect..

I'm still waiting for this next war to happen.

Or

What the intrinisic value of gold is? Seriously.. what can you do with it?.. Not much

Or..

Why ammo is a good investment?

Or..

Why you believe that government contracting today is a "growth" industry..

Just don't start man.. I got 4 more days of the Zpack left for my face to stop hurting.

DILYSI Dave wrote: I'm just amazed that you are 100% sure of something as broad and unknown as the origins of the universe. There are very few things I'm 100% sure of, and something that happened a long time ago (apparently somewhere between 6,000 and 5 billion years), before mankind existed, certainly isn't one of them.

I didn't say that. One more berkeleying time.

I said I was 100% sure that Creationism is wrong. And I am. And it can and has been proven. That's it.

Are you guys for real?

Dr. Hess wrote: And what's really funny would be "proving" that creationism is false, but not bothering to show that Darwinism is just as false and relies on "then a miracle happens" in order for it all to work out.

Except, it isn't. And it doesn't. But whatever.

Shim wrote:

Dr. Hess wrote: Where's the real iggy and what have you done with him?

Reveling in the knowledge that whatever else you spew out, will generally be incorrect.. I'm still waiting for this next war to happen. Or What the intrinisic value of gold is? Seriously.. what can you do with it?.. Not much Or.. Why ammo is a good investment? Or.. Why you believe that government contracting today is a "growth" industry.. Just don't start man.. I got 4 more days of the Zpack left for my face to stop hurting.

Stop taking yourself so seriously. You're getting played by an "old man" who is doing the same things as you do.

It is fun to watch, though.

Man, I'm almost sorry I missed this pissin' contest.

Jensenman wrote: Man, I'm almost sorry I missed this pissin' contest.

I'm 100% sure you haven't seen the end of it. And I can prove it.

fast_eddie_72 wrote:

DILYSI Dave wrote: I'm just amazed that you are 100% sure of something as broad and unknown as the origins of the universe. There are very few things I'm 100% sure of, and something that happened a long time ago (apparently somewhere between 6,000 and 5 billion years), before mankind existed, certainly isn't one of them.

I didn't say that. One more berkeleying time. I said I was 100% sure that Creationism is wrong. And I am. And it can and has been proven. That's it. Are you guys for real?

Yes. For real. I can't fathom being 100% sure about how we got here, or 100% sure that someone else's thoughts on how we got here are wrong.

DILYSI Dave wrote: Yes. For real. I can't fathom being 100% sure about how we got here, or 100% sure that someone else's thoughts on how we got here are wrong.

So, show me where I posted that I was "100% sure about how we got here". Go ahead. I'll wait.

I bet you can fathom being sure someone else's thoughts on how we got here are wrong. Suppose I were to tell you that a great green Teddy Bear spontaneously came into existence one day and found it had magical powers. Using those powers it brought about the Universe and life.

Now, you can probably say you're 100% sure that isn't what happened. Because it's nonsense. I'm quite sure that isn't how we got here.

There are things we don't know. But just because we don't know everything doesn't mean we don't know anything.

fast_eddie_72 wrote:

DILYSI Dave wrote: Yes. For real. I can't fathom being 100% sure about how we got here, or 100% sure that someone else's thoughts on how we got here are wrong.

So, show me where I posted that I was "100% sure about how we got here". Go ahead. I'll wait. I bet you *can* fathom being sure someone else's thoughts on how we got here are wrong. Suppose I were to tell you that a great green Teddy Bear spontaneously came into existence one day and found it had magical powers. Using those powers it brought about the Universe and life. Now, you can probably say you're 100% sure that isn't what happened. Because it's nonsense. I'm quite sure that isn't how we got here. There are things we don't know. But just because we don't know everything doesn't mean we don't know anything.

You didn't say you knew how, but you said that you knew that others were wrong.

Do I think a Teddy bear set it all in motion? Nope. I'll even go to your statement and agree that I'm quite sure that's not how we got here. But am I 100% sure that it didn't happen? Nope.

fast_eddie_72 wrote: I'm 100% sure you haven't seen the end of it. And I can prove it.

See? I was right about that too.

DILYSI Dave wrote: Do I think a Teddy bear set it all in motion? Nope. Am I 100% sure that it didn't happen? Nope.

Um. Okay.

Have a nice day.

Don't be a dick about it. I'm actually curious how you can be comfortable in saying "I don't know" (as am I) but at the same time say "That other guy is absolutely wrong." It's an interesting combination of thoughts to me.

Just because we don't know everything doesn't mean we don't know anything. I'm not being dick. You just made a statement- you believe the odds of a teddy bear being the creator of the universe are something greater than zero. That's not subtle. There is only one way to take it. You do not believe anything can be known. I guess that's fine for you and I have no problem with you believing that if you like.

But having said that's your belief, what is the point of me trying to prove anything to you? There's no logical response. If that's what you believe, you are saying the sum total of human knowledge doesn't exist. No one has ever learned anything. If I mix the yellow paint with the blue paint, it may or may not make green. No one can know. There's no basis for a discussion.

So, have a nice day and I wish you all the best.

I can "not know" the why of something and absolutely know the "why not". Why do Hoosiers work better than Kumhos? Dunno. But I do know it is not because I had pizza for dinner.

I believe that someone who thinks that a teddy bear created the universe would be batE36 M3 crazy. I just am not willing to say I'm 100% certain he's wrong.

I'm not sure how you get from that to "You do not believe anything can be known." That's a huge leap. Getting to "the sum total of human knowledge doesn't exist." is an even bigger one.

Hell - most people aren't willing to say "I don't know." I give you props for that. But the jump from "I don't know with certainty" to "I do know with certainty that it wasn't that." is just illogical to me.

"The car is broken"
"What's wrong?"
"I don't know."
"Have you checked the plugs?"
"No - I'm 100% certain it's not the plugs."
"So what's wrong?"
"I don't know."

FWIW, I'm kinda fascinated by the conversation, so I hope you don't take offense to me continuing to probe.

DILYSI Dave wrote: \ "The car is broken" "What's wrong?" "I don't know." "Have you checked the plugs?" "No - I'm 100% certain it's not the plugs." "So what's wrong?" "I don't know."

I'm going to take you at your word. Your above example doesn't state the point I am trying to make. Absurd, yes, but to extend your example:

"The car is broken"

"What's wrong?"

"I don't know"

"Did you try painting your house yellow?"

"Um, no. I'm 100% sure painting my house yellow won't fix the car"

"Maybe you need to cut the grass"

"Maybe, but I'm 100% sure that won't fix the car either"

"How can you be so certain my solutions are wrong if you won't try them?"

See what I mean?

That got a chuckle.

I guess I sort of get what you're saying. Maybe. But we've got a body of experience, a frame of reference, etc. that tells us that the color of the house has no effect on whether the car runs. We don't have that frame of reference for the origins of the universe. Were someone with zero knowledge of cars, houses, paint, engines, etc. to ask that, it wouldn't be absurd IMO.

Personal reflection moment - I think the reason I'm pretty unwilling to 100% dismiss any explanation for something that is so "un-knowable" is that there have been numerous times in my life when I was 100% confident in something, in areas where I do know a lot, and was still wrong. If I've been that wrong about something that I should have been right on, it would be pretty presumptuous of me to be 100% confident in something that I understand vastly less about.

DILYSI Dave wrote: I believe that someone who thinks that a teddy bear created the universe would be batE36 M3 crazy. I just am not willing to say I'm 100% certain he's wrong. I'm not sure how you get from that to "You do not believe anything can be known." That's a huge leap. Getting to "the sum total of human knowledge doesn't exist." is an even bigger one.

And, again, taking you at your word. This isn't an attack, but look what you said here. You can't know for sure that the guy who says the teddy bear did it is wrong. How is it any leap at all, then, to say nothing can be known?

Tell you what- if I'm wrong about that- if you believe things can be known, then give me an example of something you know 100% to be true. We'll move forward from there.

Datsun1500 wrote:

DILYSI Dave wrote: I believe that someone who thinks that a teddy bear created the universe would be batE36 M3 crazy.

He is crazy, but the guy that stands up and says he is the son of God is not crazy? Most people that say they are the son of God are told they are crazy, except this one guy 2000 years ago, he was the only one that was actually the son?

That one might have been crazy too. Like I said - I have a hard time going 100% on any of the "answers".

fast_eddie_72 wrote:

DILYSI Dave wrote: I believe that someone who thinks that a teddy bear created the universe would be batE36 M3 crazy. I just am not willing to say I'm 100% certain he's wrong. I'm not sure how you get from that to "You do not believe anything can be known." That's a huge leap. Getting to "the sum total of human knowledge doesn't exist." is an even bigger one.

And, again, taking you at your word. This isn't an attack, but look what you said here. You can't know for sure that the guy who says the teddy bear did it is wrong. How is it any leap at all, then, to say nothing can be known? Tell you what- if I'm wrong about that- if you believe things can be known, then give me an example of something you know 100% to be true. We'll move forward from there.

I know 100% that if I hit my thumb with a 3# sledge hammer it will hurt.