+Divorced + kid with bike?

Anyone else divorced with a kid that wants to ride, but their other parent didn't/doesn't want them to?

Would be interested in having conversation. My daughter lives with me, she's about to turn 18 (can't stop her from getting a license at that point) but I'm giving her the funds to buy her bike, so that puts me in hot water with my ex-wife (wait, I'm always in nuclear fusion temp fluid with her anyways)

She's so against bikes, it is in our divorce decree that "neither parent can transport child on motorcycle for the duration of this possession order" - but that runs out soon and I wouldn't be transporting her, she'd be transporting herself. - So I don't think I'd be in any legal hot water.

The legal side of it, I'm not worried about, more than intrapersonal side.  Her mom is going to be level 32947239487324928374 pissed.  But I'm totally fine with it.  Her birthday is July 20.  She's scheduled her MSF course for before then and her Texas DPS/DMV road test for July 22nd.

And she is used to seeing me be 100% ATGATT, so she knows that's the way to ride.

She's looking at Ninja 250s & CBR250s.  Ninja 300s with ABS are out of the budget after TTL + gear.

I'll be giving her the same amount of $ to buy a vehicle as I gave my son ($2700)

Might not be happy but she is 18 or almost 18.  

m4ff3w said:

And she is used to seeing me be 100% ATGATT, so she knows that's the way to ride.

She's looking at Ninja 250s & CBR250s.  Ninja 300s with ABS are out of the budget after TTL + gear.

Sounds like you've raised her well.

Yep berk the ex once the kid is 18.  When my ex get's all special I'll just name the years and months until Lil Stampie is 18.  She knows that I'm counting down the time until I don't have to deal with her anymore.

Edit - that said I gave up motorcycles when I found out Lil Stampie was coming.  I deserved to let him have a dad until he's at least 18.  I've told him at 18 he's free to get a bike but I'd rather he wait until he's a little older.

I wouldn't give her the funds. I'd hire her to do whatever, give her the funds to move out/enter college/pay for insurance etc., but I'd want to make it clear that you did not facilitate this; your daughter earned the money and spent it as she saw fit, and as an adult you couldn't do anything about that. 

In reply to mtn :

Delightfully devious!

I just hope that the ex realizes that her being so against bikes is likely one of the driving forces behind your daughter wanting one so badly. 

Thank you for being there as an example with regards to the safe way to ride and ensuring access to proper safety courses and the licensing is acquired. 

Driven5 said:

In reply to mtn :

Delightfully devious!

I don't intend it to be devious, but giving her the money to buy a bike and giving her a bike is a distinction without a difference. And her being 18 or not, I would not want to have such a blatant and unnecessary disregard of her mother's wishes - such that it borders on disrespect - that may make coparenting even more difficult. And like it or not, you're still coparenting - just with no required interaction anymore, but there will still be interaction. 
 

All that being said, my point is just that if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't so directly furnish a bike. Maybe gift her a guitar or a car, maybe a savings bond or stock or something. Let her sell it and buy a bike. I'd just want a well insulated layer of plausible deniability between me and something that is basically guaranteed to cause a minor explosion. After the first one? Doesn't matter, buy her all the bikes you want. And maybe buy her a helmet.

I hate to say it, but I'm with mtn.

I'm a parent, but my kids are still in diapers and I'm not divorced. That all said, doing it so directly is tantamount to provocation. I'd work with the daughter to add a layer or so of plausible deniability.

By all means, if she pays for a bike you dont have to be so careful about more directly paying for safety courses and equipment, but the bike itself... 

Give her the money as an 18th birthday present.  Then, what she spends the money on is her decision and it takes you out of the loop.

While jamming a thumb in the eye of an ex is generally my favorite thing.  This time around I'm gonna be the wet blanket.  Driver distraction has reached such epidemic levels that I can't see anyone on a bike.   ATGATT doesn't do much good if a Range Rover turns you into a hood ornament.

A Miata is the answer and a dirt bike for two wheel fun.   You put a lot of time and effort getting the daughter to 18, it'd suck to have something bad happen now.

KyAllroad said:

While jamming a thumb in the eye of an ex is generally my favorite thing.  This time around I'm gonna be the wet blanket.  Driver distraction has reached such epidemic levels that I can't see anyone on a bike.   ATGATT doesn't do much good if a Range Rover turns you into a hood ornament.

I'd say it depends a lot on where you live. There's a wide swath of risk/rewards depending on where you live. I was quite comfortable out in California hill country. Columbus, OH... not so much.

I don't have kids and I'm 30 years into a happy marriage so I may not be the best source of advice on this topic but collaborating with a kid to go against the other parents wishes just seems like a bad idea to me.  The age does make a difference but I'd rather see the kid deal with the mom's objections on her own and then once that's resolved figure out how to get her a bike.

Lifetime rider here.  Started on dirt bikes when I was 12, got my driver's license 4 days after I turned 16, then got my motorcycle license 4 days after that.  

I'm now 47 and on my 6th bike, and I still have fear of turning into a hood ornament every time I'm out there.

I won't judge her desire to get a bike.  I applaud it.  I think the question is... will she be a good rider.  It's not a male/female thing, it's a coordination thing.  Some brains are just wired to be good at certain things and other brains will never be good at certain things.  I am a very good driver and rider, but I am a terrible pilot despite significant money and flight hours poured into lessons.  My two nephews are 18 and 21.  They both want motorcycles.  I have to stay out of it because the 18 year old I would help him shop for a bike because I know he has the knack.  The 21 year old I don't even trust in a car and I think he would end up in a ditch dead on his first ride.

I mention that because what you are doing more or less is tossing a kid on an incredibly dangerous vehicle and hoping that their experience/talent level increases at a fast enough pace to give them the skills to avoid death before some other idiot takes them out.  Nothing will protect them from the other idiots on the road except an instinctively defensive driving style. 

But I think keeping yourself as removed as possible from the purchase is a wise thing for the temperature level of the ex.  She's over 18.  Hard rule:  Mom has zero say in what she does unless she allows mom's rules to apply.  Mommy time is over.  The ex can offer an opinion, but the daughter is an adult and can make her own choices.

You are also an adult, so provide funding at your own peril.  I also know this about my state:  PA is a tort state, meaning you are limited in how much you can sue for injury/damage in case of a loss.  Because of that, the law in-practice tends to allow far more civil litigation.  What this means (at least here) is that if your daughter gets injured or dies because of your funding involved in the purchase, your ex could sue you for everything and she would likely win.  Totally your choice to help her get a bike and I applaud it.  I'm only mentioning this because of a lava-level ex in the picture, you might want to CYA.

Also, entirely her choice but has she looked at the Yamaha R25?  IMO, WAAAY better bike.  Better saddle, better position, less heat on your butt.  I just didn't see it in her list and wondered if she checked it out.

mtn said:

Driven5 said:

In reply to mtn :

Delightfully devious!

I don't intend it to be devious, but...

...but that's exactly what anything that uses "plausible deniability" in the justification is. 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it's a bad approach. However, I also think that there are too many unknown variables about the bigger picture situation to know if it's a good approach either.

What I am saying though, is that it might as well have come from the "How to Fight a Cold War" handbook: Create a loophole of plausible deniability against direct involvement by using carefully worded technicalities, while covertly supporting and indirectly funding the rebel cause, in a thinly veiled effort protect national interests without becoming the overt instigator of open war. 

So while these action may win the day, it won't take a Political Sciences major to figure out what is going on. The nature of the beast is that this is just as likely be responded to, and escalated, in-kind. Against the rival still, of course, but also against and/or through the rebels... Who by nature not only have the most to lose, but also end up taking the most direct (physical and/or emotional) casualties as a result of the enduring conflict.

The only truly innocent parties in most divorces are the children. So the only meaningful advice I have to offer is this: Take the approach that is in the child's long-term best interest.

I'm sort of on Mom's side.

Love mortorcycles, but gave up riding them on the street in 1971 when i found myself looking up at the gas tank of a 1970 Olds 88.

18 year old girl on sport bike in city traffic....

I know this will cause a flame out, it's just one guy's opinion.   YMMV

The way I see it, the OP has already made his own informed decision about the adult kid and her desire to own a motorcycle.  Not my kid, not my money, not my ex.  I tried to steer clear of making judgments about the kid getting a bike... not only because I'm not informed about the whole picture, but also because the kid is about to be 18.  Any influence over the daughter's decisions technically ends on her birthday.  OK... I did make a judgment about not considering a Yamaha R25 :)

I do believe that covering your butt is a good idea.  I know you mentioned that the legal clause thing expires with the birthday, but it doesn't prevent the ex from suing your pants off if she gets damaged.  Just because the legal prevention of the motorcycle thing expires doesn't mean that new litigation can't happen.

Day later I wanted to follow up.  I bought my first bike against both of my parent's wishes at 18.  I just didn't tell them that I was doing it.  I do think the approach of making sure she's got all the skills and protection possible is better than her trying to hide it from either parent.  Sorry about my rant on my ex but I once was told that I was "Just trying to spend extra time with him!" when I told her that I wouldn't be sending him to daycare on my Fridays off.  Yeah I was trying to spend extra time with him.  It's kinda what a good parent should do.

You gave one child money for a vehicle.  You give this one money for a vehicle.  You dont influence the decision of what they buy.   Be absolved and go forward.   Life's to short to live by other people's rules.

There is no such thing as plausible deniability here, you've already set the precedent with your son, so you can tart it up however you want but any rational person is going to see the situation how it is. The ex is going to blow up either way, right, so I think your best approach is to confront the situation head on and try to remain the calm and rational one. Plus, trying to deflect blame from yourself puts it 100% on your daughter, and that's not fair to her IMO.

I'd lay it out like this: You gave her money to purchase a vehicle, same as you did for your son, she chose to use that to purchase a bike, she's an adult now and that's her decision to make, so you can either embrace that and engage with her as a positive role model or stick your head in the sand and let some random squid fill that role for her. At that age, kids are going to do what they want to do, regardless of mom and dad's wishes. Being open and honest about the risks involved without deriding them for their decision making allows you to stay engaged and have an influence on the process versus them just going behind your back and doing it on their own anyway.

It sounds like she has her head on straight in terms of what bikes she's looking at, but I haven't heard any talk of what she has budgeted for proper gear. You know this already, but that will take a not insignificant chunk out of her budget. 

Furious_E (Forum Supporter) said:

It sounds like she has her head on straight in terms of what bikes she's looking at, but I haven't heard any talk of what she has budgeted for proper gear. You know this already, but that will take a not insignificant chunk out of her budget. 

I believe it was implied to be roughly the difference between a Ninja 250 and a Ninja 300 ABS.

Beer Baron said:

Furious_E (Forum Supporter) said:

It sounds like she has her head on straight in terms of what bikes she's looking at, but I haven't heard any talk of what she has budgeted for proper gear. You know this already, but that will take a not insignificant chunk out of her budget. 

I believe it was implied to be roughly the difference between a Ninja 250 and a Ninja 300 ABS.

Derp. Please excuse my lack of reading comprehension, I have not had nearly enough coffee yet today 

I would add that while technically she can do entirely as she pleases at 18, the reality is that as long as shes functionally dependent on one or both parents in any way, this is not realistically true. I wonder if this responsibility avoidance technicality would be so generously applied if it were something that ran counter, rather than concurrent, with the interests and sensibilities of this particular group? Say if she was going to start creating only-fans porn content and/or take up recreational drug use?

In reply to Driven5 :

You saying I have to give up my recreational drug use and side porn job?

Thanks, everyone.

I do see both sides of the coin.  Yes, there are significant risks for riding, which are exacerbated by not having a much on the road experience.

My initial thought was for her to wait until after her birthday to tell her mom, but now I'm leaning toward advising her to tell her mom now, to let her prepare.

She has a total budget of $3700 - That includes MSF course, Bike, TTL, and gear.  She'll have about $1000 for gear - The extra thousand comes from her grandma on my side, she gave both kids $1000 to assist with their first vehicles - my son didn't have a job so he needed to use that for TTL and to prepay insurance.  Daughter has a job, so she can use all of that for gear.  She's even expressly stated she prefers a less expensive bike to have even more money for gear.

The way I see it, as many of you seem to as well, giving her encouragement to make better decisions when it comes to bike choice, gear, general safety, etc is the way to go.  

I'd rather her be excited, engaged, and safe on a bike than playing with her phone in a Focus or Civic.