https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/ebay-rolling-coal-fine-environment-b2427796.html
$2B is a lot. That could sink eBay.
I have to say I didn't see that coming. But the big online markets like ebay and Amazon don't do a lot of gatekeeping with regards to legality or intellectual property. This will likely cause set precedents.
Good! Berkeley anyone who has enabled this bullE36 M3.
I have the issue that it's the DOJ doing the EPA's dirty work. Or in other words big brother will fight little brothers fight. Too many angles to be attacked from "without notice".
JMO..
There's a free hat in ever roll of Reynold's wrap. Berk the alphabet bois
IBTL
I worry about the extremities taking down the more gray area hot rodders.
Meanwhile what do the rest of us do when some jerk rolls coal on us? Truly tired of these guys, it seems like they prefer rolling in front of a prius. Ready to get a dash cam and send it to DMV but I doubt anything would happen.
Ranger50 said:I have the issue that it's the DOJ doing the EPA's dirty work. Or in other words big brother will fight little brothers fight. Too many angles to be attacked from "without notice".
JMO..
That's kind of how it works. EPA would have to sue, which would end up with the DOJ doing the hard work. Executive vs judicial.
In reply to porschenut :
I'd love to be able to rid the planet of these morons.. Luckily, it seems like 1) the price of trucks and 2) the reliability of diesels that roll coal seem to be reducing the population of people doing this rapidly..
In reply to porschenut :
That would be the thing to do- inbividual cars are up to the state and localities.
Keith Tanner said:I have to say I didn't see that coming. But the big online markets like ebay and Amazon don't do a lot of gatekeeping with regards to legality or intellectual property. This will likely cause set precedents.
I've been following it for this interesting piece.. Beyond shipping and warehousing an item safely, most online marketplaces push or have historically pushed the compliance responsibilities onto the actual seller. The marketplaces put a lot of effort to ensure that items can be warehoused and shipped safely. The companies also try to ensure that its are legitimate and not counterfeit for reputational means only...
Forcing companies to make sure all items sold on their platform are legal would be an interesting trick.
In reply to porschenut :
I've driven Prius almost exclusively since 2016 and can not think of a time that I was "rolled." But, I can agree that Prius-agression is a real thing. I have had multiple people "just have to" get around me because there perception is that a Prius will be slow going down the road.
In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :
Can't be impossible. I doubt eBay would sell child porn.
So dumb.
First off, "rolling coal" isn't cool any more. Those videos are all compilations and stills from 10 years ago. Are there still some guys who do it, sure. But not like it was 10 years ago.
Secondly, all the so called "delete devices" and what-have-you are all readily available, just gotta know where to look. Just because its not on Ebay doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Lastly, this is a very slippery slope. Coal rollers are visible, and more often than not young kids who can't fight back. Oddly enough you don't hear a lot of anyone going after the Mustangs, Camaros, and BMWs running around with catless X pipes and cackle tunes. Catless X pipes are still readily available on Ebay, EGR blockoffs for diesels are not. Weird.
Did you know Ebay doesn't let you sell SCT programmers? Even though these can be used for non-nefarious purposes, they are blocked. Super dumb.
preach said:IBTL
I worry about the extremities taking down the more gray area hot rodders.
Well, the hobby was unofficially given some leeway, but thanks to the coal rollers, we lost most of that.
I had to send a picture of my car or competition license in order to get the SpecE46 exhaust for my latest build.
IBTL.. but if "cackle tunes" are next, I'm fully in favor of DOJ action. Literally berkeley that noise.
Maybe this will help curtail Amazon from selling stolen intellectual property. Bezos makes a ton from stolen, knock-off E36 M3 from China.
93gsxturbo said:So dumb.
First off, "rolling coal" isn't cool any more. Those videos are all compilations and stills from 10 years ago. Are there still some guys who do it, sure. But not like it was 10 years ago.
Secondly, all the so called "delete devices" and what-have-you are all readily available, just gotta know where to look. Just because its not on Ebay doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Lastly, this is a very slippery slope. Coal rollers are visible, and more often than not young kids who can't fight back. Oddly enough you don't hear a lot of anyone going after the Mustangs, Camaros, and BMWs running around with catless X pipes and cackle tunes. Catless X pipes are still readily available on Ebay, EGR blockoffs for diesels are not. Weird.
Did you know Ebay doesn't let you sell SCT programmers? Even though these can be used for non-nefarious purposes, they are blocked. Super dumb.
What do you mean "can't fight back"? Trying to understand this statement.
In reply to porschenut :
No different then the straight pipped BMW with SCCA stickers that rips past me on I-70 on their way to track day at High Plains raceway, the smell of un burnt fuel in the air, my ears are ringing from the noise. there are plenty of people in our hobby that are just as stupid as the diesel crew too!
In reply to 93gsxturbo :
While delete devices may be available via other sources, eBay is a massive marketplace. It's the same reason Jegs got fined a while back. And "Honda tuner in Colorado gets fined $18,000" just doesn't hit the news outlets in quite the same way as "the man takes on eBay for $2,000,000,000!" This is likely only one of a number of actions underway. And yes, that Honda example was real.
I doubt it'll be successful, as Amazon and eBay will fight hard to prevent having to be responsible for products sold on their platforms and they have all the money in the world for lawyers. But you know what? If Flyin' Miata sold delete devices, we'd sure as hell be held responsible. We've stripped off a big chunk of our product line to comply with emissions regulations and we spend extra money during development to make sure our parts are compliant. Why should some offshore seller on eBay get a pass?
While not a fan of coal rolling, we car people need to stick together. The EPA wants us all gone and this just gives them another reason to punish everyone.
No, the EPA just wants you to stop removing emissions devices. That's not the same.
Want a turbo Miata? I can sell you a kit that is completely EPA compliant for 1990-05 and for 2016-18. And we're working on one right now for 2006-15. And I'll support it, giving tech advice and stocking replacement parts. The EPA is fine with that.
Want to buy a turbo kit on eBay that's a knockoff of a 20 year old US kit, sold by some Chinese anonymous vendor who will not exist in 2 months and who hasn't done the work to make sure it's EPA compliant? Yeah, that's the problem.
In my small, mostly rural, very anti-epa town, there are a few trucks around that are obvious offenders. A very few. I can't think it's that much worse anywhere. I'm not saying it isn't an issue, and I don't really care about enforcement at the distribution level, but I can think of much more prevalent, much more damaging issues that should be much higher on the priority list. Seems like a press/political stunt more than actually trying to make the world/environment better.
Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter) said:While not a fan of coal rolling, we car people need to stick together. The EPA wants us all gone and this just gives them another reason to punish everyone.
Lol, no they don't. The EPA has real car enthusiasts working there, too. The law requires them to enforce the rules that are written. And all of this is based on the earliest clean air act.
They even modify their cars, too.
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