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Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
2/28/17 12:02 p.m.

As I mentioned in another thread I’ve just got back from Jamaica and thought you’d like to know about the driving and cars/bikes. No pics as my E36 M3ty phone died. So, let’s get to the point. It’s awesome. I can’t understand why Jamaica hasn’t turned out a top tarmac rally driver, the roads are awesome fun. Completely insane, dangerous, always changing and always massive fun to drive.

First our steed. A new Honda City rental. When I heard Honda City my mind obviously leapt to:

Unfortunately what we got was

Basically 1,100kg of painfully boring groan mobile, but at least it fit 5 of us in comfort. It’s got a 2,600mm wheel base and lots of room inside. It would be a great fun car with the addition of an engine, a trans, some wheels, tires, brakes and some suspension. Other than that some seats and decent steering wheel wouldn’t go amiss and I certainly wouldn’t complain about some added ergonomic features like an arm rest. On the plus side the AC was excellent…at night….or after keeping the engine above 2.500rpm for at least 10 mins. It proudly proclaimed iVTEC on the back. I assume the 'i' stands for 'ineffectual' as the engine appeared to be a variable nloise, constant (lack of) power unit. OK that's unfair as it only had a 1.3L 63kw engine so I should expect much. IT was essential to drop the trans from D to S to accelerate or you would go nowhere as opposed to nowhere slowly. All in all a perfectly acceptable blah mobile but is further proof Honda is losing the plot WRT to building small cheap but FUN economobiles. One last thing, this may be limited to the cars I own (have owned) but everything I’m familiar with has the indicator stalk on the left, this was on the right which as far as I’m concerned should be against the Geneva convention. The fact it was right and drive and they drive on the left is of zero consequence being an Ex Pat Brit who grew up driving on the correct side and is used to swapping back and forth between sides and countries including RHD here in America and on the European continent and driving LHD in the UK. No of it is an issue.

The roads are tiny and in many cases abysmal. Abysmal even by SE Michigan standards which are embarrassingly poor. Just about all the roads are two lanes, including the major roads between the big towns. The A2 which is the main East West rout along the south of the Island from Kingston to Negril. Because of this the average speed is low. Low like I don’t think I ever got above 80kph even when going flat out to overtake and am foot to the floor. People seem to have a set speed. Some literally drive everywhere at 30kph, in town and out of town no matter what. Others will fly along at a mind boggling 70kph!!. This means that there is a lot of overtaking. Before we talk overtaking let’s talk about the use of the horn. I never saw anyone get upset about the use of the horn. The following are the different meanings of horn use I surmised from my time:
I’m going to pass
I am passing
I’ve passed you, thank you
I’ve passed you and I’m going to carry on and pass four other people
Look out there’s a person, dog, goat, cow, police ahead
I’m going to pull out in front of you
I’ve pulled out in front of you
I’m going to turn across in front of you
I’m starting and going to pull out
I’m about to stop
Hey!, stop and let me sell you something
She’s hot
Hi!
Buy!

Overtaking. Wow, people just pass, anywhere, anytime with zero regard for anything. Passing on a blind curve when you have maybe two hamsters on coffee worth of power at your disposal? No problem! If someone else comes they just pull in and the person being passed slows up and moves over. It seems perfectly acceptable with no bad feelings.

The roads though are awesome fun. Endless corners of various durations and radius, on camber, off camber, varied camber. I’ve never driven the tail of the dragon, but this is what it must be like only the whole island. The biggest issue is not the other traffic as passing and being passed is fair game. The issue is you absolutely have to drive within your sight lines stopping distance. You absolutely will have to stop or slow down to a couple of km/h several times on even the shortest trip. You might find a pot hole the full width of your lane and literally 20-30 cm deep. Or you might find someone changing a flat tire, not a few hundred meters past the corner at the side of the road, but literally sat in the middle of the road, just around the corner half under the car on a scissor jack. I also saw people doing major repairs under cars in villages and towns in the road legs out in the middle of the road, no one spotting for them, no cone or tool box to protect them, just lying there! My favorite was some unofficial road work. We went one way in the morning and there were a bunch of guys who had closed one side of the road with some branches and were hand mixing concrete in a bucket. on the way back 5 hours later they had filled all the potholes and were letting it dry while holding out tins for donations from the locals who drive the road every day. Genius.

Motorbikes are everywhere, given the insanely low wages and standard of living I was surprised that most of them looked pretty new. I assume they must be some kind of Chinese Honda knock off . ATGATT seems to mean shorts, cut of T shirt and flip flops. Carrying your girlfriend it seems equally acceptable for her to ride pillion or due to her short skirt side saddle on the tank with one arm behind her and the other over her legs/waist. I think my favorite bike sitting was coming down a mountain and seeing about 6 or 7 guys on bikes racing up the hill, round corners while all pulling wheelies. These guys have insane control and zero fear or imagination. I never saw a single accident with either bikes or cars which is amazing considering what I saw and the insurance issues which brings us to renting the car.

Never, never, I mean never ever use Europcar . I made that mistake once in England. We got there, declined their insurance saying I would use my credit card. OK, no issue. Until a week later when we returned the car and were charged for insurance. We pointed out that we had declined it to the person behind the counter and they never told us there was an issue. We were told tough, you needed to show proof of insurance in writing before we took the car. They never told us that at the counter. Still no give. We handed the situation over to our credit card company and Europcar said the same thing to them. In the end the CC told them to pound sand and took the money back anyway, or at least they refunded the insurance part to us. So this time we didn’t’ want to use Europcar, but they had the best rates. Once burnt twice shy so I checked without main credit card company. They don’t cover Jamaica so we used another card (Costco City Visa) and they said Jamaica is fine. They sent a note that said ‘worldwide coverage’ our names, card # etc. I called back as double checked that worldwide meant Jamaica, yes it does. We get to the counter and show the proof. They say it’s not good enough as it says Worldwide not specifically Jamaica. They wouldn’t let us use their phone and in the airport to call the credit card company and our cell coverage was expensive and E36 M3ty. We lost the credit card company twice on my wifes cell and in the end gave up. We told Europcar we didn’t’ want the rental and went next door to Enterprise and they took the same letter that Europcar would accept. But now Europcar are trying to charge us even though they wouldn’t work with us. Again, the credit card company is saying no problem, it’s not your fault and are taking care of it. Moral, Europcar can suck dirty donkey genetalia and won’t get my business again.

Brining my ramblings back to cars again. Most cars are Honda or Toyota products, mainly smaller sedans and hatches from the last 20 years. I haven’t seen so many 90’s era Honda Integra’s in forever, they are very common. Obviously not Type R’s, but mainly 2 not 4 door variety. I saw a few old Celica’s too. Lot’s and lots of newer Toyota VOXY’s (Noah) as taxis and mini cabs, ugly, but they seem to be very practical. Also lot's of those awful Dihatsuand Suzuki microvans which people on here love, but having driven them in the past know there is not one single redeeming quality about them. With the massive inequity there were very few high end cars, but I saw a smattering of new Range Rovers, a new C63 AMG some new M cars etc. Basically any of those cars represents multiple lifetimes earnings for the average worker (avg. is less than $200USD take home per week with close to US prices) I did see a Euro Mk III Escort, an old 80’s Toyota Crown and lots of 80’s Isuzu Troppers and same era Land Cruisers and a few old old Land Rovers. The general style seems to tend towards a cross between rally and turn of the century F&F. Lots of mud flaps, a few spot lights, lots of ‘sponsor’ brand stickers, big tail pipes, wings, graphics and clashing contrasting color trim and wipers. I guess most new cars are Japanese spec being RHD and in kmh. Many newer cars have what look like original small stickers covered with Japanese writing.

The Toyota VOXY, ugly, but not without charm.

petegossett
petegossett UltimaDork
2/28/17 12:38 p.m.
Adrian_Thompson wrote: My favorite was some unofficial road work. We went one way in the morning and there were a bunch of guys who had closed one side of the road with some branches and were hand mixing concrete in a bucket. on the way back 5 hours later they had filled all the potholes and were letting it dry while holding out tins for donations from the locals who drive the road every day. Genius.

Sounds like the perfect retirement opportunity for you up in Michigan.

KyAllroad
KyAllroad UberDork
2/28/17 12:46 p.m.

I was there 20 years ago on my honeymoon. Renting a car wasn't an option for my extreme poverty so we rented a 1980ish Honda Silverwing (500cc horizontaly oriented V-twin). Driving on the wrong side of the road is bad enough without having to drive from the passenger seat as well, and the narrowness of a bike helped avoid oncoming traffic when they would randomly swerve around their marijuana induced hallucinations. It's a fun island and chock full of beautiful sights but it's pretty astonishing that there aren't horrible fatalities every hour on those roads.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
2/28/17 1:10 p.m.

Driving in the Caribbean suuuuucks. Autonomous cars can't come fast enough for me. My 6-mile commute takes 45min~1h now.

BTW I'm sure you saw plenty of high-end cars, you just didn't recognize them because you're used to thinking of them as midrange cars. Looking at how much they cost locally would adjust your perspective.

For example I have an uncle in Jamaica who's part of the rich upper class (what Americans might call upper-middle class). He has a Lexus SUV and an F150, and those are absolutely high-end cars in Jamaica. That SUV might as well be a Bentayga for how much is costs locally, and that F150 might as well be running on Chablis for how much it guzzles. The AMGs and M-cars you saw were the local equivalent of supercars. They cost their owners supercar money.

Huckleberry
Huckleberry MegaDork
2/28/17 1:13 p.m.

Huh. I'm going there next week. Can I has affordable dual sport bike rental? Off to the googles!

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
2/28/17 1:32 p.m.

Be careful about wandering around by yourself in Jamaica, on a dualsport or otherwise. There are good reasons why anyone with anything to lose there carries a gun all the time like it's a big FPS game. Lack of a local accent will out you as an almost-certainly-unarmed tourist which marks you as a piñata of cash and valuable first-world goodies.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
2/28/17 1:44 p.m.

In reply to GameboyRMH:

Gameboy, I know you live somewhere in the Caribbean but I can never remember where? How about you start a thread on general thoughts and feelings on Caribbean living from a locals perspective for those of us who only visit on vacation and view it though rose colored imagination?

Bobzilla
Bobzilla UltimaDork
2/28/17 1:44 p.m.

Wife and I did Jamaica. That was enough. No need to go back. Not a place I'd like to go back to personally.

Tom_Spangler
Tom_Spangler UberDork
2/28/17 1:45 p.m.

Yeesh, one week in Jamaica and you go all metric system on us? How long is 2600mm in freedom units?

RossD
RossD UltimaDork
2/28/17 1:46 p.m.

When I was in Jamaica, I just sat back and looked out the side window of the bus or taxi. It was too stressful to watch out the front. I noticed there were the 'normal' drivers at or above posted speed limits and those that were probably smoking something going 30 kph everywhere!

And goats. Goats everywhere. Like goats tied to cinder blocks so there only can go so far in a day.

The bus driver for one excursion told me that so many of the houses you see that are half built are that way because only the rich can get mortgages. So the people take 30 years or more building a home, one course of brick at a time.

RevRico
RevRico SuperDork
2/28/17 1:56 p.m.

I'm going to have to dig up a hard drive. My parents were annual visitors to a resort in Negril, but resorts don't have dialysis clinics. Somewhere I know I have pictures of the "medical taxi" that took my dad into Kingston for dialysis. Very interesting to say the least.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
2/28/17 1:57 p.m.
Tom_Spangler wrote: Yeesh, one week in Jamaica and you go all metric system on us? How long is 2600mm in freedom units?

Twas on purpose, having spent my whole life in the Auto industry all we use is metric. You know metric as well as I do. 2600mm is 100"

Freedom unit's hey? let's see who uses imperial units.

Liberia and Myanmar, bastions of freedom both!!!

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
2/28/17 1:58 p.m.
Adrian_Thompson wrote: In reply to GameboyRMH: Gameboy, I know you live somewhere in the Caribbean but I can never remember where? How about you start a thread on general thoughts and feelings on Caribbean living from a locals perspective for those of us who only visit on vacation and view it though rose colored imagination?

Did that once in this thread (about half way down the page):

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/living-abroad-share-your-experiences/124658/page1/

That's from the perspective of the kind of person who doesn't enjoy island life though. If you like beaches and watersports and a slow pace of life above all else, or if you're at least rich enough to spend your way out of all the E36 M3ty aspects of it, you might find living on an island more enjoyable.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
2/28/17 2:00 p.m.
RossD wrote: And goats. Goats everywhere. Like goats tied to cinder blocks so there only can go so far in a day.

Goats were all over including on my dinner plate. Delicious. I did notice the goats tended to look before crossing the road unlike people who just step out and expect the traffic to avoid them.

TenToeTurbo
TenToeTurbo Dork
2/28/17 2:05 p.m.

I like this thread a lot.

Huckleberry
Huckleberry MegaDork
2/28/17 2:18 p.m.
GameboyRMH wrote: Be careful about wandering around by yourself in Jamaica, on a dualsport or otherwise. There are good reasons why anyone with anything to lose there carries a gun all the time like it's a big FPS game. Lack of a local accent will out you as an almost-certainly-unarmed tourist which marks you as a piñata of cash and valuable first-world goodies.

So, then, rent a crap bike, and dress like a bike thief? I'm not so ambitious as to go try to get shot on purpose just to go exploring but the idea of hiding in the compound for a week seems terrible. Maybe I could hire a moto guide who is armed to the teeth to do the killinz for me?

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
2/28/17 2:20 p.m.
GameboyRMH wrote: Did that once in this thread (about half way down the page): https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/living-abroad-share-your-experiences/124658/page1/

Wow, totally missed that thread. Will have to read, resurrect and add too later. thx

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
2/28/17 2:24 p.m.
Huckleberry wrote: I'm not so ambitious as to go try to get shot on purpose just to go exploring but the idea of hiding in the compound for a week seems terrible.

"Hiding in the compound for a week" is basically what most tourists there do, they venture out in guided tour groups.

Huckleberry wrote: Maybe I could hire a moto guide who is armed to the teeth to do the killinz for me?

A decent idea.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
2/28/17 2:33 p.m.
GameboyRMH wrote: "Hiding in the compound for a week" is basically what most tourists there do, they venture out in guided tour groups.

Many do, but we did probably 6-700 km's during the week, driving up to 2 hours away from the house we rented. We also shopped in local stores then cooked at 'home' for dinner, eating out for lunch where ever we were.

I never felt unsafe, but from what I've heard there is very little serious crime related to tourists these days as people know where their livelihood comes from. I was told that local on local violence was very common in the Kingston area though. Admittedly being based in Negril we were essentially in one big tourist area.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
2/28/17 2:36 p.m.

P.S. we were followed by one guy on a motorbike who was desperately trying to lead us off path then hassling us once we got to where we were going. I just got out and told him to leave, then when he carried on I told him to leave a lot more firmly and less politely. At this point some other panhandlers in the parking lot basically told him to get lost as well. We then bought some bananas of those guys that they'd picked and were selling.

Bobzilla
Bobzilla UltimaDork
2/28/17 2:58 p.m.

It's been about 4 years or so since we were there. We did Dunn's and Dolphin Cove and spent 4 days on the island. We had just walked out of the airport to our resort shuttle when the first cabbie asked if I wanted to buy pot. Maybe 5 steps outside the door. I knew people that went just for that reason and loved the place. Just not for us. We prefer Bermuda.

petegossett
petegossett UltimaDork
2/28/17 3:01 p.m.
Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
2/28/17 4:16 p.m.

In reply to Bobzilla:

I was avoiding the subject, but since it's come up, well. Up until last year weed was technically illegal in Jamaica, now it's legal up to something like 30 grams (around an oz. in old fashioned units) for locals, or interestingly enough US citizens with a medical card. Not that it matters though, you smell it everywhere, it's on offer everywhere, you can even buy Ganga candy at restaurants.

captdownshift
captdownshift PowerDork
2/28/17 7:04 p.m.

I've done 2 stage rallies in Jamaica, if you think the regular drivers are crazy you need to see the guy's wheeling around Toyota starlets on stage and their fixes at service

Brian
Brian MegaDork
2/28/17 7:57 p.m.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson:

Liberia was founded on freedom, as a nation for freed slaves to return to Africa. Thanks to shows like Vice, I understand they are hyper patriotic towards America. They put country singers to shame.

No clue as to Myanmar.

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