"Enhanced Interrogation" (torture)- when did it happen?

I know this will probably end badly, but maybe I can learn a little before the lock.

With all the mass hysteria in the media about the CIAs torture report, I am concerned about something I have noticed- the dates are all missing. The only timeframe they seem to want to use is "Post 911". Some of the actual reports I've seen have even been white washed- they have a month and a day but no year.

So I will ask here... When did it happen? How long did it go on? When did it stop? Is it still policy? Under who's watch?

Something terrible happened. But we could have a report that said slaves were whipped in the 1850's, or the Romans used crucifixions. Without a date and a timeframe, these reports have significantly different meanings.

When it came to the president's attention, did he act? After how long? Which president?

Without inclusion of the dates and time periods, I am having a very difficult time distinguishing what is politically motivated. And that is upsetting.

Why are the news outlets doing such a terrible job reporting? Are they just trying to stir up a hornet's nest?

When Obama says "No more torture on my watch", is he issuing a mandate for critically needed change? Is he claiming bragging points for policy Bush put in place? Something in between?

The whole thing sickens me, but the manipulation of the data adds another layer of puke to the steaming pile.

It feels like they are just stirring a hornets nest, and trying to get everyone worked up over something terrible that happened, but has been corrected. Otherwise, why so much silence from the Middle East, and other hot spots?

But I really don't know. Just thought I'd ask.

Teach me something, and spare me the political BS.

I caught answers to a few of these on CNN during lunch.

The start date was sometime in 2002, Bush was first made aware of exactly what the CIA was doing to people in 2006, and apparently he was privately very critical of it even though in public he's been doing his usual "America can do no wrong" act right up to a couple days ago when he commented on the report.

What puzzles me is that some of the nastier torture techniques that the prisoners themselves have spoken of have not got any mention in the report...so who's lying or omitting the truth there?

In reply to GameboyRMH:

Thanks. That's a start.

How about when did it end? Is it still utilized?

I read an article that mentioned "rectal rehydration" and I giggled...

I've spent the day listening to NPR report on just this subject at GREAT length. My sense of it all is that the "enhanced interogation techniques" were in use under Bush Jr. and were stopped by Obama early on.

The purpose of the report, while it does help bring things to light, does seem to be politically motivated though to what end I really can't say. I agree, it seems to be a kicked hornets nest now that does nothing for our (the U.S.) world image.

In reply to KyAllroad:

I have also been listening to NPR.

I agree, that is clearly the implication. But listen closer. They stop short of actually SAYING that, and are NOT saying any dates.

My impression, having not read the whole report yet, is that GWB started curtailing some of that stuff once he got wind of some of the details.

SVreX wrote: I know this will probably end badly, but maybe I can learn a little before the lock.

Just don't mention a certain Japanese B-segment car and we'll all be fine

SVreX wrote: Why are the news outlets doing such a terrible job reporting? Are they just trying to stir up a hornet's nest?

Because the mainstream media is largely populated by idiots, on both sides of the spectrum.

SVreX wrote: It feels like they are just stirring a hornets nest, and trying to get everyone worked up over something terrible that happened, but has been corrected. Otherwise, why so much silence from the Middle East, and other hot spots?

They do far, far worse to bad guys they arrest. The shark will be jumped if Putin publicly says anything to "shame" us for these (terrible) policies.

My viewpoint: some of the stuff was they did was kind of E36 M3ty, but not "torture" to anyone who's been in the service or on a grey-area-hazing sports team. A lot of it, though, was pretty freaking lousy policy. People in that amount of distress will say damn anything to get the distress to stop, not to mention losing the moral high ground.

In reply to jsquared:

Formerly B-segment car, bloated pig of an appliance!

In reply to jsquared:

My impression is that GWB started curtailing it when he learned of it, but did no where near enough. Additionally, my impression is that Obama has NOT stopped the practices entirely, but we won't hear THAT in the news.

But those are my impressions, and I am not knowledgeable on the subject. That's why I asked.

The news spin appears to be trying to communicate that GWB and his administration CREATED the torture methods, and Obama has been completely innocent of any wrong doing.

If my impression is anywhere near correct, that form of "reporting" is pathetic and irresponsible at best, fraudulent at worst.

From what I have read.. the rest of the world has known about it for a while. There have been rumors, inklings, and outright facts floating about since it started in 2002. While the world is quite outraged that we stooped so such low acts, A lot of them are applauding the fact that we -are- making it public. It has helped our image more than it has hurt us.

Here is some info:

The Architect of the CIA's Interrogation methods. (Vice)

Vice can be a bit sensational, but it is does a decent job of actually doing investigative journalism (which is rare these days).

My understanding is it was stopped in 2006 under Bush and was banned in 2008 by Obama. I'm not up on all the types of torture they tried, but I thought sleep deprivation was kosher. Some cops use it now, maybe not as hard core. I think we did some badder stuff in Vietnam.

I find the timimg of the release strange, but at least Diane Fienstein can finally put some time into investigating the IRS targeting.

Fueled by Caffeine wrote: I read an article that mentioned "rectal rehydration" and I giggled...

So did I.

There was a caller on the radio this morning who said the most offensive part of the report was that we paid two psycologists $81 million and the best they come up with were chick pea enemas.

spitfirebill wrote: My understanding is it was stopped in 2006 under Bush and was banned in 2008 by Obama. I'm not up on all the types of torture they tried, but I thought sleep deprivation was kosher. Some cops use it now, maybe not as hard core. I think we did some badder stuff in Vietnam.

Obama says a lot of things... I'm not HUMINT so I don't know the ins and outs, but a lot of the HUMINT guys I know don't care for those kinds of methods anyway, tend to get false info ("make it stop" stories) and less good intel than the other legit techniques they have. Sleep deprivation in and of itself I don't consider torture, I think the lengths of time and the additional crap (restricted movement, forced awkward positions to cause muscle fatigue, etc) are what pushed it over the line.

spitfirebill wrote: I find the timimg of the release strange, but at least Diane Fienstein can finally put some time into investigating the IRS targeting.

HA!

SVreX wrote: In reply to jsquared: My impression is that GWB started curtailing it when he learned of it, but did no where near enough. Additionally, my impression is that Obama has NOT stopped the practices entirely, but we won't hear THAT in the news.

That's why I italicized "some"

SVreX wrote: The news spin appears to be trying to communicate that GWB and his administration CREATED the torture methods, and Obama has been completely innocent of any wrong doing. If my impression is anywhere near correct, that form of "reporting" is pathetic and irresponsible at best, fraudulent at worst.

That's about what I'd expect from MSNBC/CNN... I haven't read Fox's take on but it'll be interesting(?, entertaining? meh) to see how they spin it.

Putin is loving on Anna Chapman whilst we shoot ourselves in the foot.

Brilliant

mad_machine wrote: From what I have read.. the rest of the world has known about it for a while. There have been rumors, inklings, and outright facts floating about since it started in 2002. While the world is quite outraged that we stooped so such low acts, A lot of them are applauding the fact that we -are- making it public. It has helped our image more than it has hurt us.

The rest of the world is only outraged we are making a big story about this, and upset they have to feign outrage over what was done as they must now take more care concealing their own methods..

SVreX wrote: In reply to jsquared: My impression is that GWB started curtailing it when he learned of it, but did no where near enough. Additionally, my impression is that Obama has NOT stopped the practices entirely, but we won't hear THAT in the news. But those are my impressions, and I am not knowledgeable on the subject. That's why I asked. The news spin appears to be trying to communicate that GWB and his administration CREATED the torture methods, and Obama has been completely innocent of any wrong doing. If my impression is anywhere near correct, that form of "reporting" is pathetic and irresponsible at best, fraudulent at worst.

It has never happened before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvBQDHqdCck

Datsun1500 wrote: So there is outrage over what we do to terrorist, but not much outrage when they cut off some heads? Seems fair.

How many people have the Saudi's beheaded this year?

Hint: An order of magnitude more than ISIL.

Our PR and self image is that we're supposed to be the good guys and have a loftier view of individual rights and due process. Reality makes it more difficult to reconcile the actions with the image. My guess is that it started long before GWB and continues today in some form or another.

mad_machine wrote: While the world is quite outraged that we stooped so such low acts, A lot of them are applauding the fact that we -are- making it public.

If I was pinned down in a fox hole with a bunch of guys and we heard something go bump in the night…I’m sure we’d enthusiastically applaud anyone that climbed out and shined a light on what it was too.

Fueled by Caffeine wrote: I read an article that mentioned "rectal rehydration" and I giggled...

curtis? is that you? ;-)