ever wonder why i distrust the police these days?

Curmudgeon wrote:

Duke wrote:

Joe Gearin wrote: I guess I'm out of date, but if the police want to be respected, they should protect and serve-----not bully and intimidate.

I agree 100%. Luckily, in my almost-50 years living in a fairly wide variety of places over the eastern half of this country, that's exactly what they've always done for me. I've never gotten so much as a ticket that I didn't actually deserve.

Same here. In fact, they've cut me way more slack than I deserve sometimes.

this ….

and in response to what novaderrik said about them becoming more stealthy and sneaking up on you … I once asked a SHP officer that works out at the same gym that I do, if the speed radar was there as a deterrent (i.e. it would be on all the time, so the detectors would "hear" it) or was it a revenue generator (as with instant on or Lidar) … he laughed and said "both, depending on what the boss says we need right then"

ThunderCougarFalconGoat wrote: In reply to JohnRW1621: The biggest difference with the Coast Guard doing those things is that they aren't actually searching your vessel, they are inspecting it. It's no different than getting your car inspected for your tags, except in regards to officer safety. On the majority of small pleasure vessels, nearly every "space" contains some sort of safety equipment, or contains a bilge, which the Coast Guard officers need to inspect to ensure the vessel is safe to be on, both for them AND YOU.

that's all well and good … but what is it in my pockets that would be "boat safety" related ?

ThunderCougarFalconGoat wrote: The biggest difference with the Coast Guard doing those things is that they aren't actually searching your vessel, they are inspecting it...

This explains the time I was on a roomates boat and was inspected (lake patrol, but kind of the same idea). They had to step over the 2 cases of beer on the small boat to check for life jackets in the under seat storage. Yes, my former roommates were very big drinkers.

In reply to wbjones:

Depends, is that a flare in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?

But there could be something officer safety or customs related. Without being there, I can't tell you why a coast guard boarding officer would go through your pockets.

But a good officer CAN figure out a legal way to get in anywhere they want, and this goes for land cops too. However, too often most just try to intimidate you into giving them a consensual search.

In reply to aircooled:

Yep, not illegal (at least no federally; state or local laws my differ) to drink and boat. It is illegal to operate the boat if you are intoxicated though. So be careful.

Dont flip off a cop

Just had two cops come by. They needed gear for the new outer-MOLLE vests. Made me LOL.

In reply to N Sperlo:

Hope you didn't laugh at them, then you'd stand good odds of getting an incorrect address SWAT raid.

Tonight I read this article in the local paper, online.
The Ohio Dept of Natural Resources (Fish and Game Wardens) are basically slandering the promoter of the local Barge Party.

A state official falsely claimed an "armed militia" was hired for security at the Sandusky Bay Barge Party on Saturday, said Shaun Bickley, the promoter of the music, dance and bikini-fest. In an email sent Wednesday to nearly 80 members of local law enforcement agencies, Jeff Nehls, Ohio Department of Natural Resources's Sandusky-area supervisor, said an officer from ODNR's watercraft division “was informed by a reliable source (who wishes to remain anonymous) that there may be armed militia individuals providing security for Shaun Bickley.” “Other information is that the 'militia' person(s) own a boat,” the message continued. “It is unknown if these individuals will be carrying openly or concealed. The recipients of the Nehl's email, in addition to local sheriffs and police departments, included officials and agents with federal agencies Homeland Security and the U.S. Coast Guard.

The Barge Party is not loved by enforcement.

Based on the conversation here, it seems to tie right into the idea that they have managed to take an event which would be mostly drunk and disorderly charges with maybe a little indecent exposure and turn it into a good reason to exercise some National Defense.

This event can not be reached by land but rather is a construction/dredge barge that they anchor off near the beach for the day.
Nothing differnet than you might see in Lake Havasu, Detroit's Jobby Nooner or many many other places.

Sample video (potentially less than safe for work, but not that bad.) Most offensive is the pale and flabby midwesterners.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXZ_b7gEpTs

I have actually never attended this party. This may be due to my midwestern flabbiness as well as the fact that the shallow waters are likely to be mostly urine.

mndsm wrote:

novaderrik wrote:

Kenny_McCormic wrote: The thing that gets me the most is how blatant they are about how antisocial they have become. I remember when most police cars were white CVPIs with high contrast lettering and big light bars. Now the newest car in my 3 cop hometown is a gray F150, with camper top, hidden lights, and slightly darker gray lettering. I also remember when they wore shirts and ties, and a hat, not combat clothing.

cop cars used to be a deterent- you saw the Caprice or Crown Vic with the big lights on it and you either asked yourself if you were doing something wrong, or you tried to stop doing something that you knew you were doing wrong... now they are all stealthy, driving all sorts of different vehicles painted all sorts of different colors, with low profile LED light bars that you can't see until they start flashing at you- if they even have a light bar at all. they have gone from a mentality of preventing things from happening to a mentality of sneaking up and busting you after you do something. and everyone is breaking a law of some kind at any given time.. my county (Wright County, MN) has an MRAP that they got for free from the DHS... they say they are going to use it to respond to natural disasters, and in the event that the nuclear reactor at the Monticello plant melts down or something.. but i know the mentality of the county, and they will decide that they need to have a well armed SWAT team like all the cool counties and use their cool new armored truck to knock down trailer houses that they think might have a meth lab inside..

Never know when you'll need to bust up an overly randy bunch of blue hairs at the Medina ballroom.....

that's in Hennepin county... i don't know if they have an MRAP of their own, but i'm sure they are at least on the DHS waiting list to get one if they don't.

If the Barge Party is for music, dancing, and bikinis, then they've got my vote. Take that, Republi-crats!

But seriously, folks...I go to the shooting range 3 or 4 times a year with the same three buddies. In the eyes of the media, I guess that makes us an "armed militia." SMH

I feel like at this point I have the same chance of having a brutal event with the police as I do with criminals. I could have criminals try to invade my home, take my stuff, kill my dog just like the police would because somebody on the street said I sold them drugs. The difference being I could probably convict the criminals while the police might mumble a "Sorry" as they stepped over my dog's corpse and left me the bill for the front door repair.

My personal experience with the police hasn't been bad mostly because I avoid them at almost all costs. The risks of being involved or interacting are just too great.

I like meeting the friendly and helpful peace officer. I've met a few. I wish SWAT teams were made up of those guys instead of the no-knock paramilitary types.

10 U.S. Code § 311 - Militia: composition and classes (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard. (b) The classes of the militia are— (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

10 U.S.C. 311

In reply to Xceler8x:

Hang around smaller towns, the swat guys here are completely normal "good" officers. Probably why they're rarely needed as we don't have many problems in my county

Xceler8x wrote: I feel like at this point I have the same chance of having a brutal event with the police as I do with criminals.

I suggest you look past the perception put forth by sensationalistic "journalism" and agenda-driven blog posts into the actual statistics of the situation.

I am a dyed-in-the-wool libertarian and am absolutely of the mind that our current society is over-regulated... but I think real data will show that you are much much much more likely to be victimized by actual criminals than by the police.

Xceler8x wrote: I feel like at this point I have the same chance of having a brutal event with the police as I do with criminals. I could have criminals try to invade my home, take my stuff, kill my dog just like the police would because somebody on the street said I sold them drugs. The difference being I could probably convict the criminals while the police might mumble a "Sorry" as they stepped over my dog's corpse and left me the bill for the front door repair. My personal experience with the police hasn't been bad mostly because I avoid them at almost all costs. The risks of being involved or interacting are just too great. I like meeting the friendly and helpful peace officer. I've met a few. I wish SWAT teams were made up of those guys instead of the no-knock paramilitary types.

This sums it up pretty well.

I saw a documentary once about a small town sheriff who terrorized a nice guy, his truck driving buddy, a dog and a flying nun while they were on a simple beer run.

If the FOO chits........ or zieg heil mother berkeley

Most of the good cops I've met are nice, and understand that just their presences can intimidate.... while most of the bad cops... got their by failing the Sanitation dept exam.......

It seems to me that if you spend your free time looking for news reports on bad cops, your mind is already made up on the subject.

yamaha wrote: In reply to Xceler8x: Hang around smaller towns, the swat guys here are completely normal "good" officers. Probably why they're rarely needed as we don't have many problems in my county

That's good to hear. Maybe it's just a big city thing?

Duke wrote: I suggest you look past the perception put forth by sensationalistic "journalism" and agenda-driven blog posts into the actual statistics of the situation. I am a dyed-in-the-wool libertarian and am absolutely of the mind that our current society is over-regulated... but I think real data will show that you are much much *much* more likely to be victimized by actual criminals than by the police.

I'm sure there is at least some truth in this. Probably a lot more than some. Least I hope so.

I do wish I heard more about when police perform no knock raids and get it wrong...being punished for it. Seems if I heard that more often than "shooting was justified" then I'd feel like there was a lot more balance out there in regards to citizen v police interaction.

stuart in mn wrote: It seems to me that if you spend your free time looking for news reports on bad cops, your mind is already made up on the subject.

i used to believe that cops were good people doing necessary work to maintain law and order.. but once you've had the police chief of the small town where you grew up and that has known you for years throw you on the hood of his car and say that he could get you thrown in jail for a good long time even tho he knows you don't do anything wrong, your perspective changes a bit.. that same cop watched a very drunk guy get into his car and swerve off into the night while he was threatening to give the 16 year old me a curfew ticket at 10:30 on a friday night.. that's also the same cop that i personally saw get into his car and drive home when he was E36 M3faced drunk and barely able to walk because he closed down the local bar (the city owned one that made most of the money used to pay his wage) and drove home on several occasions... i would have reported it, but he was usually getting drink with his off duty county mountie and state trooper buddies..

logdog wrote: I saw a documentary once about a small town sheriff who terrorized a nice guy, his truck driving buddy, a dog and a flying nun while they were on a simple beer run.

i saw that and apparently he did it a second time as well.

slantvaliant wrote: 10 U.S. Code § 311 - Militia: composition and classes (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard. (b) The classes of the militia are— (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia. 10 U.S.C. 311

Interesting. Kind of funny when they classify groups as such then (might as well just call them "citizens"). Also interesting in reference to the 2nd amendment.

Xceler8x wrote: ..The difference being I could probably convict the criminals while the police might mumble a "Sorry" as they stepped over my dog's corpse and left me the bill for the front door repair...

You will also have a FAR different experience if you shoot one.

I went out drinking with a few off-duty cops once in IL. (Cary) It was terrifying--- and I don't scare easily. It's amazing how some people act when they know they are above the law, and there are no repercussions for their actions. 100mph+ down country roads, blowing off stop-lights, and signs? --- drunk out of their minds? Sure, why not.....if they got pulled over they'd have a laugh and go on their merry way. We owned a bar at the time, and one of these cops later bullied my bartender into letting his underage girlfriend into our 21 and over establishment. "you are walking on thin ice" he told her. He had to eat crow a bit when we called the Chief. That was his only punishment though...a tongue-lashing. We thought he deserved more for abusing his authority to intentionally break the law he was sworn to protect.

I always treat cops with respect---as they deserve it for the job they are called upon to do. I only wish that most of my experiences with the police were positive ones----- they are not. This isn't because I'm a criminal, but rather because I've met many, many crooked, authority-abusing cops. ( I did work in the service industry for 8 years--- you meet a lot of LEOs)

That said--- I'll continue to treat them with respect, as I empathize with how hard it must be for the "good" ones--- and they are out there, but in my experience they are the rare ones. I continue to hope that I'll be disproved on this.