Ferguson Missouri How does this even work?

So, I happend to see the Jimmy Kimmel show with Obama as a guest. Obama was going on about some unusual policing that went on in Ferguson. The gist was that there was some abuse of the system.

So, I did a quick check on line today and came across this:

Around 21,000 people live in Ferguson. But in 2013, the city’s municipal court issued a staggering 32,975 arrest warrants for minor offenses, according to Missouri state records. And when people couldn’t pay, they were arrested. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/03/05/ferguson-shows-how-a-police-force-can-turn-into-a-plundering-collection-agency/

So, like how can that work? I guess the good news is that such things are limited to this one small town and not likely to spread to the rest of the country.

I'm concerned about the payment of protesting and burning people's cities: http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Ferguson-Missouri-paid-protesters/2015/05/25/id/646587/

Wake up America! (Earl Pitts voice)

In reply to Fletch1:

Every online source of information on this not getting paid thing seems sketchy and agenda driven. Plus the big scary ACORN boogeyman thrown in on top just seems too silly to take seriously.

not all that limited, but it hits poor folk harder. I got a parking ticket around St. Louis on a business trip. Sort of forgot about it until the deadline rolled around. Paid the fine but I guess it was late. Got another bill for 3x the original - but their records indicate the parking ticket is resolved. I paid for the original ticket. So in Ferguson, I'm guessing you could get arrested for the penalty, which would have additional penalties, court costs, etc. So a $25 parking ticket can easily escalate into hundreds...

This isn't just Fergueson that does this. Many communties that rely on fines for their revenue do it.

Edited for stupid misteak

Food for thought: http://news.yahoo.com/baltimore-residents-fearful-amid-homicide-spike-083758282.html

Government is big business!

pres589 wrote: In reply to Fletch1: seems sketchy and agenda driven.

Yes, the entire protesting evil cops does seem sketchy and agenda driven.

In reply to 1988RedT2:

If I was a cop, I would be doing everything in my power to stay out of the limelight.

I would also be looking for another job.

Fletch1 wrote: I'm concerned about the payment of protesting and burning people's cities: http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Ferguson-Missouri-paid-protesters/2015/05/25/id/646587/ Wake up America! (Earl Pitts voice)

plus-one'd for Earl Pitts reference (I grew up listening to Gary Burbank. The 700WLW broadcast antenna in Mason Ohio used to operate at 500KW, and could be able to be heard in metal boxsprings, and at night, arcs could be seen between the tower and its support cables. They had to run 2 smaller antennas out of phase across the street to keep the signal from blocking stations in Toronto - Feds were afraid it would lead to diplomatic issues. My folks still live 10 minutes away, and if theres silence on the phone, you can hear the broadcast faintly, even though now its only at 50kw...COOL STUFF...)

/threadjack. You may now get back to tinfoil strawman stuffs...

spitfirebill wrote: This is just Fergueson that does this. Many communties that rely on fines for their revenue do it.

Thus the reason why I've taken to referring to local LEOs as the auxiliary tax collectors.

Open air drug sales across the street from the local Malt Liquor bar, not a cop in sight for years, in the not really a school zone, school zone speed trap, 18 mph will cost you a minimum of $130. Oh, you had better watch out on that road that changes from 35mph to 25mph when it crosses into the neighboring fiefdom, they don't care that all state maintained roads are supposed to be 35mph, you can explain that to the judge.

In reply to NOHOME:

The number can work out like that.

Scenario:

• Resident gets busted for speeding
• Resident does not pay the fine (for whatever reason)
• Arrest warrant is issued
• Resident gets out and has another issue that a fine is levied
• Resident can pay because the pokey
• Arrest warrant is issued
• Rinse and repeat until the resident has paid up all fines . . .

Sounds like fun, eh?

Talking to local LEOs, it's more prevalent that you think. Fines (fairly large) are attatched to some of the strangest things . . . Ex: In our area, $1093 ticket for non-op vehicle. If it is not tagged (sorta means no insurance in SC), they consider it "non-op".

In reply to Fletch1:

Uhm, what?

Multiple offenses are how they get that many. A simple drug arrest here in Indiana will net you 7+ charges.....they do that hoping at least one or two stick.

When I was at TAMU, there was a rich kid. I mean a really rich kid, like from Saudi. Parking there was horrible and the parking police would nail you $25 (early 90's) a day for any parking infraction. The rich kid parked his beemer wherever the hell he felt like. $25/day was cheap parking for him. He had people to pay that for him.

Now, it does appear the Ferguson was a bit of a popo state trap. Still doesn't mean that PAID PROTESTERS should be brought in to burn their town down after a thug attacks a cop. Oh, wait, was that on CNN? It must not be true if I didn't see it on CNN or MSNBC or the Huffington Post, which are my ONLY sources of information, because those are sponsors of the Communist Part of America.

The reason to target poor people (if they do that, which it seemed like they did) would be because it is more likely they would not be able to pay on time, thus increasing the fine, thus increasing the income for the city. I suspect the ones that ended up in jail were a bit of a fail for the system though since those would cost the city money rather then make it money. I am guessing it was a delicate balance. Fine them too much and you get nothing (sore of a threshold of pain kind of thing). Some sort of payday loan style payment plan would be ideal in that case (money soaking wise that is).

Poor people are also great targets for cities since they are far less likely to fight tickets. Heck, if every person who got a ticket demanded to see a judge (which I believe they are entitled to) the system would quickly grind to a halt.

Way back when all this crap got started, I saw a story about some woman who got caught up in the Ferguson traffic fine thing. Here's what got me about the story: she was driving without insurance and got a ticket. The picture accompanying the story showed her with tattoos all over her arms and neck plus a set of those Rent a Rim baller wheels. So she has the money for tats and baller rims but can't pay for insurance? Any sympathy I might have had for her evaporated at that point. Of course the story made a big deal out of the race aspect, implied that she got caught in the whole thing because she was black. Uh, no. She got caught in the thing because she made poor life decisions. I mentioned this on another board, was told that I needed to look at the 'big picture'. Mmmm hmmm.

Now, as to fines escalating out of sight? Yeah, I could see where that was wrong. The flip side of the coin on that: at some point perhaps it's a good idea to consider that just letting things go, so to speak, will breed a 'who gives a crap?' attitude on the part of those breaking the law. Like it or not, the speed limit, no parking zone laws, etc are there for a reason. If you don't like the law, then work to have it changed. In the meantime while it is the law, if you break it then yes you should pay the fines involved. Or better yet, if you really can't afford a ticket for, say, 55 in a 35 then slow the berkeley down. Don't go crying about it; the speed limit is posted for all to see.

Now, turning a $25 parking ticket into $300 as a for instance? I'm not seeing that. I do know that at least in SC unpaid tickets lead to a suspension of your license.

The SC non op thing is there to prevent the scenes you'll see in some parts of the country where rougher neighborhoods are littered with junked and sometimes burned out cars. I just had to handle a code infraction notice for one of our tenants who had a non operational Chevy Trailblazer parked in the back yard, no tags which in SC also means no insurance. The notice DID NOT incur a fine UNLESS the vehicle was not moved or garaged within two weeks. I got the notice as property owner, had to send the tenant a certified letter. I repeat, there's NO FINE unless the vehicle is not moved or garaged. The local cops understand project cars etc, they say if you do need to park one outside park it neatly, keep the tires inflated, put a decent looking car cover over it and they'll generally leave you alone. There's two of those in my neighborhood right now; one's a Jag XJ6, the other is a 1980's Camaro. A car neatly stored on a car trailer is also something they won't get bowed out of shape about.

If it gets to looking ratty and the neighbors complain, then they pretty much have to do something.

Datsun1500 wrote:

oldtin wrote: not all that limited, but it hits poor folk harder. I got a parking ticket around St. Louis on a business trip. Sort of forgot about it until the deadline rolled around. Paid the fine but I guess it was late. Got another bill for 3x the original - but their records indicate the parking ticket is resolved. I paid for the original ticket. So in Ferguson, I'm guessing you could get arrested for the penalty, which would have additional penalties, court costs, etc. So a $25 parking ticket can easily escalate into hundreds...

Do all of the rich people where you live just park wherever since the fine does not impact them as much? I've never seen that happen, what's it like?

why yes, our time is much more valuable than some petty municipal fine. Besides, I paid for the judge. The case would be dismissed anyway.

Someone should alert the Communist Part of America about all of this.

Dr. Hess wrote: When I was at TAMU, there was a rich kid. I mean a really rich kid, like from Saudi. Parking there was horrible and the parking police would nail you $25 (early 90's) a day for any parking infraction. The rich kid parked his beemer wherever the hell he felt like. $25/day was cheap parking for him. He had people to pay that for him.

Well, that's rich and dumb. If he was rich and smart, he would keep the first ticket and then place it in his windshield every time he parked so it looked like a different attendant already got him...

In reply to rcutclif:

That never worked at the college I went to. They look at the time/date of the ticket already there and add another if it's been too long.

Strike_Zero wrote: In reply to NOHOME: The number can work out like that. Scenario: - Resident gets busted for speeding - Resident does not pay the fine (for whatever reason) - Arrest warrant is issued - Resident gets out and has another issue that a fine is levied - Resident can pay because the pokey - Arrest warrant is issued - Rinse and repeat until the resident has paid up all fines . . . Sounds like fun, eh? Talking to local LEOs, it's more prevalent that you think. Fines (fairly large) are attatched to some of the strangest things . . . Ex: In our area, $1093 ticket for non-op vehicle. If it is not tagged (sorta means no insurance in SC), they consider it "non-op".

Add court costs and other strange fees and it really gets rediculous.

yamaha wrote: Multiple offenses are how they get that many. A simple drug arrest here in Indiana will net you 7+ charges.....they do that hoping at least one or two stick.

That's called stacking charges. Stupid thing is the sentences are usally concurrent. Its all about the fines, and hoping to get at least one to stick.

Strike_Zero said: The number can work out like that. Scenario: Resident gets busted for speeding Resident does not pay the fine (for whatever reason) Arrest warrant is issued Resident gets out and has another issue that a fine is levied Resident can pay because the pokey Arrest warrant is issued Rinse and repeat until the resident has paid up all fines . . . Sounds like fun, eh?

Add in a side of "lose your job because you didn't show up for work because the tax collector was busy E36 M3ting on you", with a topping of "lose your house and kids because you have no job", and you pretty much have it.

Hard to believe that could reach a tipping point, eh?

Any of you heard about this story? Florida (yeah) town where police stop numbers went through the roof.

http://fusion.net/story/5568/florida-citys-stop-frisk-nabs-thousands-of-kids-finds-5-year-olds-suspicious/