Frustrations with interviewing in this wild job market

GameboyRMH said:

Looks like the tech layoffs are coming for cybersecurity now, which was until recently a very in-demand field, and the certifications that are popular in that field are very expensive too:

https://www.darkreading.com/cybersecurity-careers/lessons-from-layoffs-in-cybersecurity

Seems like a bold move in the age of ransomware and state-backed attacks on private companies.

Welcome to healthcare.

People are still alive and getting sick but paying people what they are worth and I don't mean the doc who sees you for 5 min or less, is shrinking.

Meanwhile here I sit looking for someone with moderate technical abilities to provide some customer service and tech support on industrial equipment.  4 qualified-ish applicants and 3 total interviews in over a month.  One token interview - one pretty bad one, dude couldnt really read prints even though it was listed as a requirement - one OK interview but the guy didn't really razzle dazzle us.  

I wouldn't think it would be a hard job to fill, yet here we are.

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

Are you getting the raw feed of applications or is it going through HR? They might be filtering out good candidates if so.

In reply to Ranger50 :

I haven't seen that at all.  At least in dental, employees are making so much money now that it's killing the solo doc/owners like me.  There are times that they're making more than us, and given the risk, debt and education we've had to go through, that's not ok.

docwyte said:

In reply to Ranger50 :

I haven't seen that at all.  At least in dental, employees are making so much money now that it's killing the solo doc/owners like me.  There are times that they're making more than us, and given the risk, debt and education we've had to go through, that's not ok.

Friend, those employees are trying to maximize their income in the same way you are. If you think they have a better deal right now I'm sure you could get a job doing what they are doing.

In reply to docwyte :

I know for the past 5+ yrs I was a travel nurse, the current travel nurse wages are LESS than where I started currently. I went staff and now don't make half of what I once did. Between normal bills, I'm living paycheck to paycheck. Thanks uncontrolled/checked inflation.

GameboyRMH said:

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

Are you getting the raw feed of applications or is it going through HR? They might be filtering out good candidates if so.

HR qualifies the leads, but its not like its a whole department.  Its one person and she is 10 feet from my desk.  They are not getting applicants.  

93gsxturbo said:

 one OK interview but the guy didn't really razzle dazzle us.  

I wouldn't think it would be a hard job to fill, yet here we are.

Should have taken a chance.

The best HR guy I ever encountered was, like everybody these days, having a hell of a time finding millwrights. I applied, and he got back to me immediately, and I mean immediately. I had an interview the next day with him, then the maintenance manager, a plant tour, and was hired on the spot.

An interview is a poor way to assess somebody's ability to do a job. If you can't find people, take a chance. You can always tell them a few weeks later that it ain't working out.

Peabody said:

93gsxturbo said:

 one OK interview but the guy didn't really razzle dazzle us.  

I wouldn't think it would be a hard job to fill, yet here we are.

Should have taken a chance.

The best HR guy I ever encountered was, like everybody these days, having a hell of a time finding millwrights. I applied, and he got back to me immediately, and I mean immediately. I had an interview the next day with him, then the maintenance manager, a plant tour, and was hired on the spot.

An interview is a poor way to assess somebody's ability to do a job. If you can't find people, take a chance. You can always tell them a few weeks later that it ain't working out.

Completely agree that an interview is only an OK way to asssess someones abilities.  We need someone in hard up into that red "sales" quadrant for this role, and I dont think this guy is.  Gonna ask him to do the personality test, since like you said an interview isnt great.  

In reply to docwyte :

Would you make more income if you sold your practice and went to go be a dentist somewhere else local? 

In reply to CrustyRedXpress :

I'm not IBM.  I don't make millions of dollars a year.  Hygiene wages have gone up 50% since Covid, but you know what hasn't gone up 50%?  Yeah, my profit margin.  There's a tip over point where people are going to price themselves out of a job entirely.  Maybe I might be better off doing hygiene, but I spent a ton of time and money learning to do what I do.  So that's not really the same thing, is it? 

In reply to Ranger50 :

Were the travel nurse wages during Covid normal?  All of us are feeling the inflation, my costs of business have soared, everything is up except my production/profits.  It's even more of an issue if you're accepting in network insurance fees, because those haven't changed in 15 years or more.

In reply to yupididit :

That depends, everyone promises the moon, but rarely follows through.  The corporates are always looking for people, but there's a reason for that.  They don't do business in what I'd call an ethical manner and that's not something I'll be a part of.  Dentistry tends to attract (well, used to, very possible the new generation has different attitudes) Type A, Lone Wolf people, who don't like to be told what to do and don't necessarily work all that well with others.  I don't think that's too far off the mark for me. 

Not to say I couldn't work for someone else, but after doing my own thing for 20 years, it'd sure be a big adjustment, especially if they didn't just let me work.

calteg said:

Interesting data point: Good buddy of mine is a math genius. Over a decade of CFO experience, just got his MBA from Wharton. He graduated w/o a job offer in hand. 

Woah. That's honestly terrifying. That's a whole bunch of investment. I'm curious about personality- because if he's got CFO experience, and still decided to go to Wharton- then he likely wants a CEO role. That's a vastly different role than CFO and much more personality/relationship based. 

In reply to Ranger50 :

I'm wondering (honestly) what the phrase "paying people what they are worth" means.

How do you measure that?

Ive only had 2 raises in the past 10 years. Does that mean I'm not being paid what I'm "worth"?

Im paid fairly and in keeping with the rest of the industry I work in. That doesn't feel unfair to me, even though my actual buying power is significantly less than what I made 10 years ago.

I'm trying to understand if the concern is about inflation (which isn't an employer's fault), or malice.

I think a lot of people are mixing that up. During an inflationary period everyone is "worth" less.

In reply to docwyte :

Dental is going through a generational shift- sole prop shops are going to have a harder time competing in the near and long term. 
 

IMHO this started 15 years ago just after I got accepted to DS. Many programs added a ton of seats and new schools opened as well- there was quite a bit of pent up demand. Lots of folks like me could get into dental or medical school- but didn't want to deal with the medical training process (I.e. many years and little control over location). Now you've got a huge group of young dentists who are trying to get patients and having to advertise like lawyers. 
Dental groups offer to take that pressure of marketing and payroll and offer a nice salary and work them to the bone while offering an inferior product. Doesn't Aspen or Delta have a dental school now that they don't even require board passage? It's become for profit education. 
many young dentists now just want to own a vast business- and that's why companies like DEO are having success. 
I think it sucks and I'm sorry for you. 

Traveling nurse wages during COVID were astronomically high (for very good reasons).  That's not a good standard to measure by.

93gsxturbo said

Completely agree that an interview is only an OK way to asssess someones abilities.  We need someone in hard up into that red "sales" quadrant for this role, and I dont think this guy is.  Gonna ask him to do the personality test, since like you said an interview isnt great.  

I didn't say it was only OK, I said it was a poor way to assess someone's abilities, and I believe that. Want to know an even worse one?

A personality test.

docwyte said:

In reply to Ranger50 :

Were the travel nurse wages during Covid normal?  All of us are feeling the inflation, my costs of business have soared, everything is up except my production/profits.  It's even more of an issue if you're accepting in network insurance fees, because those haven't changed in 15 years or more.

It really depended on where you willing to accept the fact of you might potentially be causing your own death or not. What my intention was that I started at about 15-1700/wk and now, 5 yrs later, places are only willing to pay 1900-2100. Yet I have to relocate myself, find housing that doubled in price now, and still get treated like E36 M3 by everyone.

SV reX said:

In reply to Ranger50 :

I'm wondering (honestly) what the phrase "paying people what they are worth" means.

How do you measure that?

Ive only had 2 raises in the past 10 years. Does that mean I'm not being paid what I'm "worth"?

Im paid fairly and in keeping with the rest of the industry I work in. That doesn't feel unfair to me, even though my actual buying power is significantly less than what I made 10 years ago.

I'm trying to understand if the concern is about inflation (which isn't an employer's fault), or malice.

I think a lot of people are mixing that up. During an inflationary period everyone is "worth" less.

I'm looking at the signs for people out hiring. If no additional education jobs are having to pay 20+/hr to attract someone, based on history, I should be making triple that. As a travel nurse, I expect 1.5 times to, ideally, double what I'm making per hour currently because of the added expenditure of traveling, that includes the stipend rolled into a per hour wage. Jmo.

My inflation comment is partially a patio building comment but also commentary on a failure of business not seeing and adjusting but then trying to talk out of both sides of their mouth and bemoaning about how no one wants to work or can't find people. Again jmo. But then again I'm not the only one watching the same things.

In reply to DirtyBird222 :

I'm up to 24 since last December, most submitted since mid-May. I've been fully qualified for almost all of them, excessively qualified for many. I've got one or two rejection letters so far but mostly just silence. In the pre/early-pandemic era, applying to jobs like this would've got me about 1 interview for every 3 applications.

But apparently in 2023 on average it took 167 applications to get a job and 27 to get an interview, and things are clearly worse now:

https://www.newsweek.com/ghost-jobs-bad-idea-employment-1929617

In reply to GameboyRMH :

Reach out to your friends and acquaintances... you need to find people to hand walk your resume to the right set of eyes.

In reply to GameboyRMH :

Reach out to your friends and acquaintances... you need to find people to hand walk your resume to the right set of eyes.

GameboyRMH said:

Looks like the tech layoffs are coming for cybersecurity now, which was until recently a very in-demand field, and the certifications that are popular in that field are very expensive too:

https://www.darkreading.com/cybersecurity-careers/lessons-from-layoffs-in-cybersecurity

Seems like a bold move in the age of ransomware and state-backed attacks on private companies.

No actual numbers for Cybersecurity people, just that 3 security firms were in the Top 10. That doesn't mean it was people who actually do Cyber Security work were laid off, could been HR and marketing people for all we know. The story opens with a communications professional being laid off. 

And I've pointed out multiple times the other big tech companies have been laying people off is because they WAAAAYY overhired during the pandemic. Growing your company by 55-81% in 24-32 months IS NOT SUSTAINABLE. We didn't run into that problem because instead of going crazy hiring, we went into a hiring freeze. 

I think you're reading out of that article what you want. 

In reply to grover :

The DSO's are definitely taking over I get pinged by various VC/PE groups all the time to sell my practice and join them.  I'd rather not as I suspect my income will go down, along with my vacation time, quality of life, etc.  I'm not sure what my next move is, I'm going to try to work hard and keep the business numbers good for the next three years and then maybe sell.  At that point maye I'd pick up Locum Tenums contracts, or try and grab a military contract.

There might be some relief as a law is on the books that will allow dental assistants to do a supra gingival scaling/prophy.  So unless the patient needs SRP, you don't need a hygienist.  At that point, business wise it'd make sense to schedule all the SRP patients on the same day(s) and just bring in a Temp hygienist.  There are also more hygiene programs now and in a few years more graduates will be out looking for jobs.  As a person, I want everyone to get paid what they're worth and what the market will allow, as a small business owner, I can only afford so much and sometimes those two things don't line up...