Good quote about God

ronholm wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: “Shake off all fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God, because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.” ― Thomas Jefferson

This quote from Jefferson as you have posted it in this context is a horrible misrepresentation of the intent of Jefferson in this letter. In fact.. The letter itself was a tiding of good will... Please think about that.

What in that quote is anything but good will for mankind? It is not out of context in the slightest, in this thread nor that letter. It is a plea for reason above prejudice. It stands on it's own with or without the presence of a god. Where exactly do you take umbrage?

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

ronholm wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: “Shake off all fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God, because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.” ― Thomas Jefferson

This quote from Jefferson as you have posted it in this context is a horrible misrepresentation of the intent of Jefferson in this letter. In fact.. The letter itself was a tiding of good will... Please think about that.

What in that quote is anything but good will for mankind? It is not out of context in the slightest, in this thread nor that letter. It is a plea for reason above prejudice. It stands on it's own with or without the presence of a god. Where exactly do you take umbrage?

.

To truncate this quote using it to suggest somehow Jefferson is saying reason suggests there is no God, or that questioning God is MORE noble is entirely inaccurate. (I make the assumption you are doing this as I read through your other quotes and comments in this thread..)

You of course would object if I where to post these excerpts below

Look how easy this is.. .

Jefferson said...

Read the bible

Or

Jesus was also a god, you will be comforted by a belief of his aid and love

Or even this...

Your own reason is the only oracle given you by heaven

or this.

Seriously think about this one.

If it ends in a belief that there is no god, you will find incitements to virtue in the comfort & pleasantness you feel in it's exercise, and the love of others which it will procure you. If you find reason to believe there is a god, a consciousness that you are acting under his eye, & that he approves you, will be a vast additional incitement

Near as I can tell the atheists in this thread have misunderstood that message,

Datsun1500 wrote: I know what you meant, and who was involved. I don't know how a movie affects a marriage though....

I shared that because a member of this forum took part in something which effected my life in a very positive manner. It speaks directly to the grace and love he was talking about in his post here. Without knowing or have met me, he contributed to something which without a doubt improved my marriage.

Or are you simply trying to get hung up on semantics? Oh sure.. I can't just buy the DVD and set it on the shelf and have it improve my relationship with my wife.. No kidding.. but the Movie helped inspire US to action.

Now having completed the "love dare" several times now I can simply set the movie out somewhere in the house and invoke a positive reaction from my wife...

So as you "talk" with your wife.... Do you think it wouldn't be possible or even very likely for a more guided and focused approach to improve your marriage? I mean I certainly can and will say I don't "need" a movie either... But good grief...

We have an understanding. I don't mess with him and he for the most part leaves me alone, testing me every now and then to keep me in line. Yes we talk (or should I say I talk and hopefully he listens) every now and then but there are those that need his care and attention a lot more than me at the moment. He has given me the tools to be happy, take care of the ones I love, and have good health. He is not going to do it for me he expects me to work at it.

In reply to ronholm:

That quote does not say there is no God. Just that we should not believe in one without first seriously questioning that belief.

Its like questioning the wisdom of your parents and eventually deciding they were right... or not.

We should love and care for each other and appreciate what we have. If a religion, a book, a movie, or a hobby help you to do that, then they are useful tools.

If there is a divine presence, it is something so great that it will be impossible for us to possibly understand the totality of it. Applying human emotions, values, and other traits to it are certainly in error.

Practice love. Leave your world a better place than you found it.

SVreX wrote: I heard a quote today on the radio that made me think about how little positive I hear in my normal day-to-day life on the media or internet about God. So, help me out... Any other encouraging God perspectives to share?

Change the radio station you listen to, change the web pages you surf, change your friends if you need to.

I didn't get, nor do I stay, clean and sober by living the same life I used to live.

If you want to find god, hang out with people who seek him.

Beer Baron wrote: In reply to ronholm: That quote does not say there is no God. Just that we should not believe in one without first seriously questioning that belief. Its like questioning the wisdom of your parents and eventually deciding they were right... or not.

I agree with this near completely.....

Although.. The flaw with your analogy is Jefferson maybe isn't so much referring to the adolescent rebellion of a teenager, as he opens the letter commending the maturity of the intended audience...

Should I argue Jefferson pulled many of his ideas about why a man should question God directly from the bible?

In reply to ronholm:

My analogy was weak. Not the best analogy. Just saying that quote does not imply the belief or disbelief in a God.

I believe strongly. I'm willing to try to help anyone find him. However when atheists go so far as to 'hate' that I believe it's moot to argue, at that point they are doing satans work and are subscribed to him and will only be a stumbling block if you don't leave the situation. Pray for them and walk away.

If you live like there is no God, you better be right.

FranktheTank wrote: I believe strongly. I'm willing to try to help anyone find him. However when atheists go so far as to 'hate' that I believe it's moot to argue, at that point they are doing satans work and are subscribed to him and will only be a stumbling block if you don't leave the situation. Pray for them and walk away. If you live like there is no God, you better be right.

"Worship me. So that I can save you from what I will do if you don't."

Sounds like a pretty profound way to live one's life.

Instead, the wife and I donate our time and money to charity and help in other ways when we can.

So do you think God cares more if I say "I'm sorry" for being a cock, or if I follow his Golden Rule?

I guess my mistake is not being self-righteous about helping others.

I'll start by saying, thanks SVreX for sharing that. I appreciate the fortitude it took to post that, when you knew what some if this crowd would make of it.

To the rest of you.

I will never understand why one persons beliefs draw such hatred out of others. Usually it's the same people that are shouting about having an open mind about their beliefs. SVreX shared something that was important to him. As usual, when Christianity is discussed, the usual suspects just have to come in and be their usual asinine selves.

How about grow up people. I don't treat people I don't like, the way y'all are treating SVreX. I was under the impression that for the most part we were friends around here. You couldn't prove it by me the way some of you act.

How about do me a favor, if you can't respect a man's beliefs with your mouth shut, move on. If you won't do it for me, do it for SvRex. He is a good and decent man, treat him as such.

ronholm wrote:

mad_machine wrote: I think this quote from Mahatma Gandhi sums up my feelings completely I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

You are aware this is not a Gandhi quote, and thus by extension you are practicing a human religion.

I never claimed to be an atheist. Even if I was.. Jesus has been proven to have existed, and if 1/10th of the stories attributed to him are true.. he was a wise and caring man..

For the Record.. I am a buddhist

Toyman01 wrote: I will never understand why one persons beliefs draw such hatred out of others.

So true. When it comes to religion, believe what you want. Only when it affects what I do in my own life does it bother me. Like buying beer on Sundays.

Only making this one post to the thread, and only to point out that everything I would want to say has already been said in this thread. In reality, that thread probably already includes most of what any theist, apatheist or atheist is going to say here.

Datsun1500 wrote: Maybe it's me, but I don't see hatred in this thread at all. Where's the hatred?

berkeley you!

(Happy now?)

For the record, as someone who does not believe in the Christian version of God, I don't have any issues with the original quote. There is wisdom in it. There are strong Christians on this board who do cross the line of proselytizing at times. That line hasn't been crossed here.

Some people take debate as hatred or arguing. I myself enjoy a little debate unless it goes into name calling or saying someone is stupid. (unless we are talking about stance cars )

I'm an atheist, I have met and truly like SVreX. He's good people. How he got to that point is of no interest to me, it matters only that he is a decent human being. His (or anyone else's) beliefs are theirs, not a place for me to stick my nose in. Thanks for sharing your feelings, Paul.

Datsun1500 wrote:

foxtrapper wrote: If you want to find god, hang out with people who seek him.

So prison?

People who've lived a comfy cushy life tend to have a very fluffy perception of god. Their beliefs and morals are rather weak.

People who've been through the crucible tend to have a deeper and stronger conviction. Something about forging if you will.

I don't sneer at prison or prisoners, it's only a fluke or perhaps divine intervention that I'm not living there.

foxtrapper wrote:

Datsun1500 wrote:

foxtrapper wrote: If you want to find god, hang out with people who seek him.

So prison?

People who've lived a comfy cushy life tend to have a very fluffy perception of god. Their beliefs and morals are rather weak. People who've been through the crucible tend to have a deeper and stronger conviction. Something about forging if you will. I don't sneer at prison or prisoners, it's only a fluke or perhaps divine intervention that I'm not living there.

I have a good friend who used to do prison group ministry/counseling. The impact it had on the lives of the inmates (even lifers who weren't going to see the outside world again, no matter how much they turned themselves around), and on her was pretty incredible.

Like Beer Baron, I knew a guy who did Kairos prison ministry. He was a helluva guy for doing that no matter what his motivation.

FranktheTank wrote: If you live like there is no God, you better be right.

Frank, how do you think those of us who don't believe in gods actually live?

FWIW, I was pretty stoked to see SVreX's OP. The whole concept of understanding his god as a creature mature enough to consider the whole of an individual human's life, instead of issuing an automatic rejection notice for any perceived indiscretion in worship.

Just my .02, but reading that he'd had enough of 'The God of One False Move', made this particular atheist happy to see it. His god is not a vengeful tyrant, but a creature who actually understands that people sometimes have difficulty getting by sometimes--and doesn't punish them for that.

Beer Baron wrote: For the record, as someone who does not believe in the Christian version of God, I don't have any issues with the original quote. There is wisdom in it. There are strong Christians on this board who do cross the line of proselytizing at times. That line hasn't been crossed here.

Agreed. I also don't believe in the Bible's version of God, but nothing here has been offensive, including the OP's OP.

curtis73 wrote: Agreed. I also don't believe in the Bible's version of God, but nothing here has been offensive, including the OP's OP.

Especially that.