In reply to NickD :
I guess this explains why the current Chairman is functioning as Interim President and stated to your's truly that he will remain until the Board is satisfied with necessary changes to the operation.
Lou
In reply to NickD :
I guess this explains why the current Chairman is functioning as Interim President and stated to your's truly that he will remain until the Board is satisfied with necessary changes to the operation.
Lou
In reply to TheMagicRatchet :
Yeah, they've chewed through a bunch of management since 2018. Moedinger retired, Lefever unexpectedly passed away, Gebbia was a disaster, then Jim Hager took over and he seemed like a great choice and did a bunch of good for the railroad, but he didn't hang around too long (19 months). Jim Hoerner is the current interim president but he is a "turnaround specialist, banking and private investment expert", which are all dangerous sounding words to me.
In better news involving Strasburg, they've now gotten involved with the PRR #1361 project. The six 80-inch drivers made the 170-mile trip from Altoona to Strasburg in December, for inspection and possible reprofiling. Strasburg’s crew found that previous work on them was within both general mechanical specs and compliant with Federal Railroad Administration tolerances. They are expected to return to Altoona in February or March, at which time they’ll be cocooned until the frame, boiler, firebox, and cab are ready for reassembly. Hiring Strasburg to do the work now was crucial because within a few months the shop will be occupied with a combination of the short line’s own work and the restoration of Chesapeake & Ohio #614.
As for the rest of the #1361 restoration, it has reportedly moved past the symbolic 50% mark according to the Railroader's Memorial Museum. The tender is done, from trucks to body work, stoker, and even paint. The cab is currently at Curry Rail Services in nearby Hollidaysburg for reconditioning. Flues and superheater tubes are already on hand, in storage at the museum. Other work includes frame, shoe, and wedge machining, spring rigging repair, trailing-truck equalization, converting to modern 26L brakes, and steam chest repairs. The current major project is assembling the firebox, which took considerable re-engineering and is what stalled out the last attempt at restoration. Welding and riveting is done on #1361’s outer firebox sheets, with fitting and drilling of the inner sheets scheduled next, followed by installation of about 2,000 staybolts. Once the firebox is completed and reattached to the boiler, the superstructure can be mated with the frame and running gear.
So far the project has amassed $1.5 million, with about $900,000 still needed to put the engine under steam. For 2025, the museum hopes to raise $500,000.
I will be excited to see the #1361 finally run. It ran briefly, and never at 100%, for about a year and a half in '86 and '87 before a cracked axle took it out of service. It's since spent the past 37 years undergoing an on-again, off-again restoration that had lots of setbacks and poor decisions. The last attempt stalled out around 2010, and the parts were then scattered to the winds, and a lot of people were of the mind of "I don't care if it runs, it would just be nice to see it complete again." Around 2018, a new group took over, with some pretty big backing that includes E. Bennett Levin and Wick Moorman, and they've been pushing ahead and actually making good progress.
People have asked where it will run and if it will be PTC-equipped, and the answer is "Let's get closer to when it's running before we start talking about that." Not necessarily a bad mindset because management and mindsets can change at the drop of a hat. Look at poor N&W #611, restored to operation with plans for lots of NS mainline excursions in 2017, just in time for Wick Moorman to retire, his successor to bin the steam program, and the #611 to be left all dressed up with nowhere to go. Of course, you have to have some sort of plan as well, because then you end up in ATSF #2926's situation of "We'll figure it out later" and now they've chewed up 9 of the 15 years on the boiler ticket, ran zero excursions, and are now trying to fundraise to install PTC.
I would imagine Strasburg is always an option. It's not too far away, in the heart of PRR country, and friendly to visiting engines. I'd love to do an In-Cab Experience with the #1361, provided that Strasburg brings those back. The Everett Railroad is right down the hill, already runs excursions, and Everett Railroad owner Alan Maples has been involved with the museum, but I've heard that a PRR K4 might be too big or heavy for the Everett. I know that during it's brief operational stint in the '80s, the #1361 ran most of her excursions on the Nittany & Bald Eagle, also right near Altoona. It's the old PRR Bald Eagle Valley Branch, but NS also uses that line, which could cause complications, and the N&BE no longer has passenger equipment, instead using Bellefonte Historical Railroad Society's RDC.
For Christmas, I received a copy of When the Railroads Went to the Beach, by John Taibi, which covers the New York & Oswego Midland/New York, Ontario & Western and the Elmira, Cortland & Northern's Camden Extension/Lehigh Valley Elmira and Cortland Branch and their heyday in Sylvan Beach, NY.
Imagine my surprise when I looked at the Acknowledgements and found my name down there.
Keep in mind, that this book was from 26 years ago, so the "Little Nick" moniker, as John Taibi referred to me as, made a bit more sense back then. I'm about 6'3" and 250lbs now, and taller than my father, so not so little anymore. As a 7 year old kid, my father, who is a big NYO&W buff, took me to several of John Taibi's presentations, and I went to several of them by myself (driven there by my mother) when my father wasn't available. I even remember being the one to operate the slide projector at a couple of his presentations, particularly the one in the very cool open-air Sylvan Beach Union Chapel (the walls all unlatch and swing out and up). And that would have been for this book.
I didn't see John for decades, and then four years ago I was there when Adirondack RSC-2 #25 was moved up to Remsen. I was standing there watching the move and struck up a conversation with a nearby man, with a heavy Long Island accent. It was cold as hell, and we were all wearing heavy winter gear, but I mentioned having family that had worked for the NYO&W and the NYC Adirondack Division and he goes, "Well, what's your last name?" I said, "Dixon." And he looked at me and went, "Nick?! Little Nick?! My god, it's John Taibi."
Why are we listed in the Acknowledgements? Well, this photo, which shows the joint NYO&W/LV bridge (Bridge 367) over the New York State Barge Canal, replete with SX (Sylvan Junction) interlocking tower used to control all traffic through the beach. This bridge was built in 1907, with the rail line raised by fourteen feet over what had been Wood Creek, and the decision was made to control the whole North Loop/South Loop, and NYO&W/LV connections with a modern interlocking tower. It was removed in later years, as traffic decreased and then the LV gave up the Camden Extension.
I have no clue where my father got this photo. I'll have to ask him. His father lived in the North Bay area, and he took 8mm film, but I don't know that he took still photos and I think this was before he even got his 8mm camera. It could be that he acquired it through some of the Dixons that worked for the NYO&W (there were five, and I know four were Dan, Matt, "Hub", and "Utica Joe", not sure of the exact relation). I know that my grandfather got the platform step from the NYO&W North Bay depot when he was there with Niagara Mohawk (power company), turning the power off for it to be razed in '53.
Today, you'd be hard-pressed to find any evidence of the fact that the village of Sylvan Beach, NY (population 897) was directly served by not one, but two Class I railroads. Sylvan Beach, as it's now know, is located on the easternmost shore of Oneida Lake, where Fish Creek and Wood Creek merge together and flow into the lake. Oneida Lake is the largest lake entirely within NY, at 21 miles long and about 5 miles wide with an average depth of 22 feet. Even before the colonial days it was an important part of an all-water travel route for Native Americans, and when the Erie Canal was constructed in the 1820s, there was a lot of confusion and concern over the fact that the canal didn't use Wood River and Oneida Lake as part of it's route, instead taking a more southern routing through Oneida and Canastota. There were two separate feeder canals built to connect Oneida Lake to the Erie Canal, the old Oneida Lake Canal, operated from 1835 to the dismantling of its locks in 1863 due to inability due to support large barges, and the New Oneida Lake Canal, which operated briefly in 1877 and 1878 before flaws in it's construction forced it's closure.
As the railroad industry developed, it also originally missed the settlement that would become Sylvan Beach, at the time still confusingly referred to as either Fish Creek or Wood Creek, after the nearby waterways. The Syracuse & Utica, later part of the New York Central mainline, opened in 1839 and followed the Erie Canal from Rome through Oneida and Canastota to Syracuse. The Watertown & Rome, later part of the Rome, Watertown & Ogdensburg which even later was the New York Central's St. Lawrence Division, left Rome but swung north through Annsville and Camden. Enter the first of Fish Creek/Wood Creek's railroads; the New York & Oswego Midland. Dewitt Littlejohn saw that most of New York's railroads were developing east-west routes, and saw the opportunity for a north-south routing, as well as wanting to afford Oswego the growth possible by a rail connection to a major port. He gambled on Oswego becoming a major Great Lakes port and decided to connect it to New York City harbors. He championed the Town Bonding Act and declared that his NY&OM would not go through any town that did not bond itself to the railroad. Of course, this immediately bit him in the ass when he tried to get Syracuse to buy bonds, and Syracuse, already possessing multiple railroads, told him to get lost. So the NY&OM was forced to go across the north shore of Oneida Lake, an area that's still relatively desolate and possesses no major settlements, and then swung down the east end of the lake, passing through North Bay, Fish Creek, Durhamville, State Bridge (so named for the railroad passing over the Erie Canal) and into Oneida.
By September of 1869, depots were built at Durhamville, State Bridge, Fish Creek (just east of where the two water ways entered Oneida Lake and north of the river) and North Bay and open for business, and by 1873 the whole NY&OM was complete, with the first train ran from Oswego to Jersey City on July 9, 1873. Earlier, in May of 1873, the Oneida Community, an odd utopian community that believed in positive eugenics through complex marriage and made damn fine cutlery (Oneida Limited), built a retreat on the eastern shores of Oneida Lake that they called "Joppa", taken from the Bible as the name of the Israelite city of Jaffa. So now, the settlement that lacked an official name and was referred to as Fish Creek (and was referred to as such by the railroad) and Wood Creek was also referred to as Joppa. Additionally, some newspapers also referred to the area as Beacon Beach/Beacon Beach Landing, as well as Spencer's Beach, after wealthy businessman James Spencer, who had donated land and was trying to build the town up. So, Fish Creek, Wood Creek, Joppa, Beacon Beach, and Spencer's Beach were all the same place, although as far as the railroad was concerned, it was Fish Creek. Now, Joppa was important because the Oneida Community would travel by rail from Oneida to Sylvan Beach to vacation at Joppa, and they were the first of many to start using the NY&OM for such a purpose.
Of course, famously, just after a month of operation of the completed system, the New York & Oswego Midland goes bankrupt and enters receivership. Starting in 1878, the Hop Grower's Association (hops were a big crop to the south of Oneida Lake and one can still find hop barns if you know what to look for) held their first picnic, at Spencer's Grove, a picnic grove in what would be the middle of town. It was a smashing success, with thousands traveling by rail to the Grove, and they immediately decided to hold future picnics at that location. The NY&OM began operating a number of summer excursions from Oneida to Fish Creek depot. Worth noting that all specials originated from south of the lake, there was never any regular or special trains from settlements north of the lake (North Bay, Cleveland, Jewell, Constantia, Bernhards Bay). The logic was that those communities were all on the lake shore and didn't need to go down to Fish Creek/Wood River/Joppa/Beacon Beach/Spencer's Beach. They would later protest this, by the NYO&W didn't ever really acquiesce to their demands.
By 1880, the New York & Oswego Midland was sold off and reorganized as the New York, Ontario & Western. Around this time, the New York, West Shore & Buffalo begins construction. Backed by a lot of the same people, and it showed since the West Shore hit Utica but missed other major NY cities like Syracuse, Rochester and Albany, the West Shore was intended to be a competitor to the New York Central, and was like a mirror image. It followed it up the opposing shore of the Hudson River, hence the West Shore name, and chased it across NY to Buffalo. The West Shore and the O&W would play nice with each other, developing a jointly-operated mainline from Cornwall to Weehawken. But more relevant to this tale is that the West Shore was going to cross the O&W just 0.7 miles east of the O&W's huge Oneida passenger depot. The two railroads build a beautiful two-story station to serve the overhead West Shore and the O&W underneath it, calling the facility Oneida Castle. There was also a free-standing elevator to carry baggage and mail between the two railroads, and a ramp track for freight interchange between the two. Oneida Castle is opened in October of 1883, with the West Shore beginning service in January of 1884 and it quickly becomes a vital link. The West Shore can bring passengers in from Utica and Canastota and Buffalo and hand them off to the O&W to then take north to Fish Creek staton on the shores of Oneida Lake.
By 1886, the New York, West Shore & Buffalo fell under New York Central control, as part of a settlement for a rate war between the NYC and the PRR. NYC got the PRR-controlled West Shore, and NYC stopped buiilding it's Southern Pennsylvania Railroad that would have mirrored the PRR's route. While the NYC and NYO&W were archenemies (NYC hated any railroad that competed in it's central New York territory), the West Shore Railroad, as NYC had renamed it, remained a friendly interchange partner with the O&W.
The O&W is now doing massive business to Fish Creek, but the Fish Creek depot isn't terribly conveniently located, a little too far east and south of the heart of the village, and it's not really big enough or nice enough to handle capacity. Plus, stopping all these trains on the mainline to load and unload passengers is tying things up and risking an incident. Lack of turning facilities at Fish Creek also meant the trains had to continue north to North Bay and be turned there and then head back through Fish Creek to Oneida, adding time. So, the O&W embarked on a pretty ambitious construction program to solve all of these issues; the Sylvan Beach Loops.
First, in April of 1886 a spur was attached to the mainline past McClanathan Ave, allowing trains to back down parallel to Spencer's Grove at Beacon Beach. Then by May 20th of the same year, two wyes were constructed, and although geographically east and west of each other, the NYO&W was a north/south railroad, so the west wye was "North Loop" and the east wye was "South Loop". Now, all Oneida-Fish Creek local trains came in, took the South Loop to get off the main line, then used the North Loop to line up with the Grove siding and then reversed down to the Grove station there. Most importantly, in early June of 1886, the Fish Creek depot was renamed "Sylvan", while the Grove depot was renamed "Sylvan Beach". A lot of advertisements of this era referred to the "sylvan sands" of the area, and with the NYO&W using the Sylvan Beach name, Fish Creek/Wood River/Joppa/Beacon Beach Landing/Spencer's Beach finally solidified the name of Sylvan Beach. As if to be contrary though, the station in the South Loop to be used by through trains was called Beacon Beach Landing still. The Loops were so efficient, and the Beach such a popular destination, that the NYO&W had SIXTEEN Beach locals scheduled (eight southbound, eight northbound) scheduled during the summer season and would add extra trains for special events or if demand required them.
Of course, you can see on that track map, mentions of the Lehigh Valley and SX Junction, which were later on the scene. But that does bring the second railroad, the Elmira, Cortland & Northern onto the scene. The Elmira, Cortland and Northern Railroad was created on March 7, 1884 from the merger of two railroads, the Utica, Ithaca and Elmira Railroad and the Cazenovia, Canastota and DeRuyter Railroad, and it extended from Elmira, NY up to Canastota, NY. It even used the former NY&OM's Auburn Branch between DeRuyter and Cortland, which it bought off the NYO&W during reorganization. Shortly after the EC&N was formed, the village of Camden, NY put out an appeal for a second railroad to come to their city. The RW&O already served Camden on it's way from Rome to Watertown, but the city felt that RW&O's rates were exorbitant and wanted a railroad to give a second option and keep the RW&O honest. The EC&N rose to the occasion and chartered the Canastota Northern to build an extension to Camden. It struck north from Canastota, then grazed the south side of the eastern shore of Oneida Lake (creatively named Soutth Bay) and then would pass through Sylvan Beach, take a slightly eastern tack to Vienna (pronounced Vye-Anna, not Vee-Enna) before going north to McConnellsville, and back west to Dibbletown and then Camden. Arriving in Camden, it actually shared the RW&O's depot and freight station, despite being there to compete with the RW&O.
Since the Canastota Northern was passing through Sylvan Beach and wanted to get in on that passenger market, they built a depot on a wye and tail track on the south side of the Wood River (south of the river is known as Verona Beach, but Canastota Northern called it Sylvan Beach) and then approached the NYO&W about sharing tracks over the River and through Sylvan Beach. The old NY&OM bridge (Bridge 367) was getting old and outdated, so the NYO&W agreed if the EC&N/CN would build the new bridge. Not a bad deal for the NYO&W who got a new bridge for free, and that bridge actually had the diamond crossing of the CN and NYO&W on the bridge. That didn't work out and it was later converted to conventional switches, which were guarded carefully. By July of 1887, the Canastota Northern was completed and absorbed by the Elmira, Cortland & Northern and went into service. The passenger traffic was nowhere near as strong as the O&W's, since they didn't deliver passengers right to the beach. In fact, there was no pedestrian bridge over the Wood River, so passengers either had to pay a ferry fee or remain stuck on the south side of the lake from actual Sylvan Beach. In addition to it's "Johnny-come-lately" status, the EC&N never rose to the same status as the NYO&W in Sylvan Beach and carried far less passenger. In June 30th of 1888, the EC&N also found itself evicted from the RW&O's Camden facilities when it began talking about extending the Camden Extension to Watertown. RW&O would share Camden with the EC&N but Watertown was out of the question, and so the EC&N had to construct it's own Camden facilities. Things did improve down to Sylvan Beach when a pedestrian bridge was built over the Wood River in September of 1888, and the EC&N extended the tail track to move their Sylvan Beach station even closer to the south bank of the Wood River, but it still lacked the convenience of the Sylvan Beach loops that deposited passengers right at the beach.
In July of 1892, the O&W took the first 1886 Sylvan Beach depot, which the O&W lacked visual appeal, and relocated it into the north leg of the North Loop, renaming it "Sylvan Platform", and a new, more trimmed-out depot on the Sylvan Beach site. Sylvan Platform could be used for through trains to drop off passengers, while locals could back down the tail track to Sylvan Beach station at Spencer's Grove and be turned. It's worth noting that the Loop was only active during peak summer traffic, which was really only two months or so during July and August. Once that season was over, the switches were spiked, and trains only used the main line and the Beacon Beach Landing station.
Starting in 1896, the New York Central began making changes on the West Shore Railroad and really wanted to make that a through-freight line with no local passenger service. As part of that, they wanted to end use of the shared West Shore/NYO&W station at Oneida Castle (and the NYC would actually remove the ramp track connector in 1901), instead forcing all Sylvan Beach locals to use the NYC's Oneida depot, less centrally-located towards the north of Oneida. Passengers would end up taking the O&W to Oneida Castle or Oneida, and then use the Oneida Railway Co. trolleys (horse-drawn until 1902) to get a ride down to the NYC Oneida station. New York Central was also actively encouraging their passengers who were headed to Sylvan Beach to actually stay on, ride west, and then get off at Canastoa and take the EC&N to the Beach instead. The NYC felt that the NYO&W was a direct competitor with their route across central NY, while they thought that the EC&N was more of an interloper with it's southern routing. Speaking of the EC&N, the potential of the EC&N to provider feeder traffic for its new line intrigued the Lehigh Valley Railroad, which purchased the company on February 20, 1896. A formal merger wouldn't follow until 1905, but under the Lehigh Valley, the EC&N's Elmira–Camden line was known as the Elmira & Cortland Branch and managed as part of the railroad's Auburn Division.
By June 23rd of 1897, the NYO&W changed the name of Sylvan depot back to Fish Creek, and in 1900 they would also renamed Beacon Beach Landing depot to South Loop depot, but operations were pretty much the same. Lots of people were still taking trains to Sylvan Beach in the summer, although the area really didn't generate much other traffic. The Hop Grower's Picnic was still the social event of the season and had huge ridership, but actually wasn't that profitable. The O&W would actually run short of equipment and would have to lease equipment from the West Shore, DL&W, D&H, and NYC to cover services at times, which ate into profits. There are even accounts that in some instances, the O&W would put a crew member aboard NYC consists to act as a pilot, and NYC engines and cars would run over the O&W, with NYC crews at the controls, to the Sylvan Beach Loops. No photos of NYC equipment negotiating the Loops exist, but it did happen. The O&W would get into fights with the Hop Growers Association, because they would want to raise ticket prices, and the Hop Growers would refuse, so then the O&W would refuse to add any special trains to the Beach. The Hop Growers would say they wouldn't come to the Beach the next year, they would spend a year with their picnic elsewhere, and then they'd be back a year later. Wash, rinse, repeat.
By the 1900s, it became obvious that the Erie Canal was old and outdated. Too narrow, too shallow, and not enough vertical clearances (some bridges were less than 6' over the canal). Railroads had pretty much ended the heyday of the canal, but it was still felt that they had some use. Rather than try and re-engineer the Erie, the decision was made by NY legislature to connect several existing canals, as well as add new section that took advantage of existing water ways or allowed connection to cities previously bypassed by the Erie Canal. The New York State Barge Canal was authorized in 1903, and as if to address previous complaints, the decision was made to use Oneida Lake, and they would enter the east end through the mouth of the Wood Creek. Of course, that would require re-engineering of the NYO&W/LV entrance to Sylvan Beach, since the lines would need to be raised fourteen feet to provide adequate clearance.
The NYO&W opened up a borrow pit in North Bay to mine earth from an embankment bordering the track for fill, as well as allowing them to realign their mainline and eliminate a curve there. Interesting detail; my father worked with a guy who owns the property that that bit of the NYO&W mainline was on. He has constructed a small airplane landing strip on the old ROW, which is the only instance I know of a railroad ROW being converted to a runway. Trails? Sure. Highways? Happened plenty. Airports? Not that I know of. Again, the O&W got lucky, because the state would pay to replace Bridge 367, and the 1886 NYO&W/EC&N bridge was in need of repairs and updating. So the NYO&W got yet another free Bridge 367 at Sylvan Beach. The 1886 bridge was removed, a temporary trestle was constructed that looked like the old NY&OM Bridge 367, and the project to raise the new roadbed got underway. It was done by 1906, and the first train over the new Bridge 367 was actually a Lehigh Valley train. NYO&W officials were on hand for the event, and there's speculation on whether they were disappointed that the LV used the bridge first, or if they were grateful that the LV got to test if the bridge was up to the job. Also, the decision was made to install an interlocking tower there, to be named SX Tower, to control the Lehigh Valley approaches on either side of the bridge as well as all the switches in the Loops. The LV had also had "Sylvan Junction" depot, positioned right where the LV got onto the NYO&W from the south, used for passengers changing between the two railroads, and that was actually raised the 14 feet (with it's outhouse strapped to the side!) but by Summer of 1907, it was instead moved to South Beach (today's Verona Beach).
One of the big changes for 1907 was the new Oneida Railway Co. third-rail electric interurban operations between Utica and Syracuse using the rails of the West Shore. The Oneida Railway Co., mentioned earlier, operated a couple miles of trolley line in Oneida, and had been electrified in 1902. The New York Central went on a spree of acquiring trolley and interurbans across the state, both to eliminate competition and to act as feeder lines to their own operations. These lines consolidated under their new owner as New York State Railways, and to connect NYSRy operations in Utica and Syracuse, the New York Central took the less-busy West Shore, added third-rail electrification from Utica to Syracuse, and then purchased a fleet of Brill electric interurban cars. This was placed under the Oneida Railway Co. banner, but was known locally as simply "the Third-Rail." Oneida Castle was made one of the stops, and all NYO&W Beach locals had resumed service from Oneida Castle in 1901 (now just called Castle by the NYC), so now you could hop a third-rail interurban from Syracuse or Utica to Castle and transfer to an NYO&W Sylvan Beach train, which boosted NYO&W ridership again. It also did stop in Canastota, so Lehigh Valley's Sylvan Beach excursions also saw a boost as well. Side note: my father's mother actually rode "the Third Rail", and she mentioned to him how between the swaying of the cars and the smell of ozone from the motors would make her sick. Also, John Taibi wrote a book on the Oneida Railway Co. and my "grandfather" (no actual relation) has a very rare photo showing all the employees in uniform posed in the front of a set of cars for a PR pic. That photo was one of the crowning pieces of that book.
NYO&W, feeling that four depots (Sylvan Beach, Sylvan Platform, Fish Creek and South Loop) in the same village, decided to close South Loop in the September of 1907. Kind of an odd choice, since Sylvan Beach and Sylvan Platform were seasonal use and Fish Creek was less centrally-located, but that was their choice. The NYO&W installed a shack at the McLanathan Ave crossing to handle any off-season passengers and less-than-carload freight. The outcry from residents was immense, and the NYO&W asserted that something had to go, but residents instead suggested why didn't the railroad just run trains year-round through the Loop and use Sylvan Platform as a year-round station. After all, the whole affair wasa now controlled from SX Tower and wouldn't need trains to stop to throw switches, or for the railroad to employ switch keepers. The O&W agreed with the shockingly simple solution, and any through trains that serviced Sylvan Beach would go through the loops, while any freight or passenger trains that didn't need to stop would bypass the Loops. Also, by spring of 1908, Fish Creek depot lost it's telegraph operator status, as well as it's train order and reporting status, with a subsequent reduction in pay for the depot agent. All that was already done by SX Tower, so there was no need for nearby Fish Creek to handle that as well.
The 'Teens saw continued growth and patronage, and were the last really good decade for Sylvan Beach service. There weren't a ton of changes or developments, although one of the more amusing ones was on February 12, 1912. The Lehigh Valley was cleaning up from a snow storm and after hitting a crossing where the flangeways were packed with ice, the V-plow jumped the rails and wiped out the South Bay depot, with no one injured or killed. Also, on September 17th, 1916, the NYO&W extended the Grove Siding further south towards the lake to service an ice house. Particularly amusing was the way it was done: at the time New York State had a bizarre law that any railroad construction done under cover of darkness, even if it wasn't approved, was legal and allowed to stay. Your competitor won't allow you to build a diamond to cross their rails? Sneak down at night, lift that section, install a diamond, and they had no legal recourse. The NY&OM had actually tried to do this to the New York Central in spots, and the NYC would put guards out to prevent such antics. Well, after the public wasn't receptive to lengthening the Grove Siding, the NYO&W had track crews go down at night and extend the siding, and it was official. The state was also kind of on the side of the railroad, since it made moving equipment and materials to the Barge Canal project easier. And in May of 1918, the Barge Canal opened, 15 years after construction began.
Unfortunately by the '20s, the automobile was making inroads and Sylvan Beach rail traffic was falling off. It was still a popular destination, but people weren't taking the NYO&W or LV to get there anymore. In 1923, the last Hop Growers Picnic was held there, and only 70 members traveled by rail, versus the nearly 3500 in 1914. Local passenger service was discontinued by the NYO&W that year as well, although they would tack a single passenger car onto the tail end of milk trains for those along the shores of the lake. In March of 1924, Sylvan Platform in the North Loop was dimantled, and the second (1892) Sylvan Beach (Grove Siding) station was moved to that site. On April 27th of that same year, Fish Creek depot was also closed and Sylvan Beach depot was made a year-round agency. By the end of November, the Grove Siding tail track was also yanked up. By August of '26, the O&W ended summer shuttle service to the Beach, and less than 2 years later, the Lehigh Valley ended Sylvan Beach service as well. They had always played second fiddle in that region, and while NYO&W was already running trains through there on their mainline, the LV reached it via an unprofitable branch. The NYO&W also discontinued all passenger service on the Northern Division (Norwich-Oswego) in 1929, as their financial situation worsened. Without the Lehigh Valley, and no more O&W shuttle services, SX Tower was now no longer needed and after first removing the third shift, the interlocking was closed in January of 1930, making all switches a manual effort by train crews. This was followed by closing of the North Bay depot on March 24th, 1930, placing it on caretaker status, and about a week later they shut down their agency at Castle. At the end of that year, the Oneida Railway Co. also ended third-rail interurban car service and Oneida trolley status, Castle station's doors were locked for good, and the building vanished sometime 1934 and 1938. In September of '31, Durhamville depot was also closed and put on caretaker status, meaning there was not a full-time agent, just someone who would show up if an LCL freight shipment was expected.
The bleeding continued and on October 17th, 1933, the railroad removed a portion of the Loop. On May 1st, 1934, the State Bridge depot went to caretaker status, followed by Sylvan Beach in 1934. In October of 1937, the North Loop wye was removed as well. The O&W was trying to free up land to sell and get out from under taxes, and they still had to petition for bankruptcy protection, entering receivership in 1937, which they would never emerge from. On August 7th of '38, the Lehigh Valley threw in the towel on the Camden extension, and by the next day track crews were rapidly dismantling the line back to Canastota. In September of 1939, the O&W closed their big stone passenger station in Oneida, moved the agency to the freight house, and sold the station to a business that dismantled it for the building materials.
Sylvan Beach hosted three last NYO&W excursions in 1939-1940. The first was an O&W employee trip to Sylvan Beach on September 10th, 1939. Taibi's book noted that the trip was probably more depressing for O&W retirees than a celebration, seeing the dismantled loop, the weeds in the tracks, and the deteriorating Sylvan Beach station. A second company-sponsored trip was held in August of 1940, with four cars from Middletown and four from Scranton, meeting at Norwich, where they were consolidated into a single train and run to Sylvan Beach and back. And a week later, one last trip, held by the Norwich Knitting Co., ran from Norwich to Sylvan Beach and back.
In the fall of '42, a shack was placed at the Vienna Road grade crossing to handle any remaining less-than-carload freight, the NYO&W getting it's way 35 years after trying that stunt. In October of '44 the remainder of the Sylvan Beach loop was removed and the land was sold off, and one would be hard-pressed to find any evidence of this fascinating bit of engineering today. Believe me, I've spent my whole life around Sylvan Beach and there's no signs of it. The nest year, the O&W sold the 1892 Sylvan Beach station that had been relocated to the old Sylvan Platform location. This building still exists at 329 16th Ave, but it suffered a fire at one point and was modernized during the repair, practically obliterating it's identity unless you know that the bay window (facing away from the road) is part of it's old identity. John Taibi, the man on all things NYO&W, said it took him six trips to the Beach to identify the building. By March of '53, the North Bay and Durhamville caretaker positions were eliminated, and the depots were demolished shortly afterwards. As mentioned, my grandfather, working for the power company, cut the power to the North Bay depot to prepare it for razing, and grabbed the platform step and took it home. And on March 31st, 1957 the O&W itself ceased to exist, having labored in bankrutpcy for 20 years. The receivers determined that nothing would make it viable again and moved to abandon and liquidate, the first major railroad in the US to do so.
Sometime in 1959, the Fish Creek depot, closed since '24 was demolished, and Bridge 367 and 361 (over the Erie Canal in State Bridge) were torn down. The state canal corporation would also dig down the fourteen foot fill at some point and one can't tell where the NYO&W and LV entered the Beach anymore. If one knows where to look, you can kind of see where the NYO&W crossed McLanathan Ave, and the ROW is fairly easy to follow from North Bay (following just north of Lake Shore Road up around the northeast corner, it runs along the lake and appears to cross 49 near Meany Road) all the way to Fulton, but it's pretty much wiped out in Sylvan Beach. The NYS Trooper barracks looks like a railroad structure, but it isn't. I believe I read that Eddy's Restaurant is right where the Sylvan Beach (Grove Siding) depot would have been, but that that building was a new construction. Lakeshore Drive in Verona Beach is built on the LV's right of way, and supposedly there's an LV depot still down there somewhere, and in a zoomed-out satellite view, you can actually see where the ROW curves northwest towards the Route 49/Route 13 intersection in Vienna, passing right south of the Vienna Town Garage and over Vienna Road. The McConnelsville depot was dismantled and moved up Route 13 to someone's backyard and it supposedly still exists, although damned if I know where.
NickD said:
I have no clue where my father got this photo. I'll have to ask him. His father lived in the North Bay area, and he took 8mm film, but I don't know that he took still photos and I think this was before he even got his 8mm camera. It could be that he acquired it through some of the Dixons that worked for the NYO&W (there were five, and I know four were Dan, Matt, "Hub", and "Utica Joe", not sure of the exact relation). I know that my grandfather got the platform step from the NYO&W North Bay depot when he was there with Niagara Mohawk (power company), turning the power off for it to be razed in '53.
Asked my father about this last night, and he said he was given the photos by an acquaintance who found an envelope of railroad-related photos marked "Dixon", and they assumed it was some relation and purchased them and mailed them to him. He's not sure who took the photos, or what "Dixon" they were from, but he felt like they were possibly company photos given to an employee. The five Dixons who worked for the NYO&W were Eddie, Dan, Matt, Hubert ("Hub") and "Utica Joe" (there was another Joe Dixon, unrelated, working for the O&W and the related Joe worked out of Utica, so he became "Utica Joe") and he said that he's not fully sure how they were related. He knows that Eddie was the uncle of my great-grandfather(Nick Dixon Sr.), and that Matt was the cousin of my great-grandather. Matt was the first tower operator at SX Tower, so maybe the photos were given to him or a descendant of his, since they included the photo of Bridge 367 and SX Tower.
Some pretty big news the other week, the Delaware & Hudson Railway Historical Society has launched. There's an old, long-standing D&H historical group called the "Bridge Line Historical Society" (based off the D&H's slogan of "The Bridge Line to New England and Canada"), and this is a new group. As part of their launch, they made the announcement that they have acquired a genuine D&H RS-3, #4085, and will be moving it to the Saratoga, Corinth & Hudson for restoration and operation. At the SC&H, it will join two other D&H RS-3s, #4108 and #4113, and the group has hinted that the #4085 will wear D&H paint, but not the as-delivered black and yellow. I'm guessing it will be in the famed lightning stripe blue, gray and yellow. The #4085 was most recently operated by short line New York & Greenwood Lake (out of business in 2012) as its #935, in an Erie-inspired livery. The locomotive is currently stored in Port Jervis, NY, and Hal Raven and his team have gone down, repainted it's original number, made a preliminary inspection and prepared it to be moved to Corinth. The word is that it's relatively complete and un-vandalized (amazingly) but has some electrical gremlins and will need some work. Still, having three operational RS-3s owned by the D&H on D&H rails is a huge accomplishment. New York has become the home for Alco RS-3s, with one ex-PRR/LV RS-3m (EMD 567-swapped) at Rochester & Genesee Valley, one ex-D&H RS-3u (251-swapped) at Arcade & Attica, one ex-D&H/Adirondack RS-3 in the deadlines on the Buffalo Southrn, two ex-NYC RS-3s (currently inop) at Adirondack, two RS-3s (currently inop) at Battenkill, one on display in Schenectady and soon to be three operational at Saratoga, Corinth & Hudson. I'm pretty sure SC&H's three operational will be the largest group in the US. Formerly, Delaware-Lackawanna held that record, with four, but they sold the #4108 and #4113 to the SC&H last year, bringing their collection down to two (CNJ #1554 and D&H #4068).
I think of the 130 RS-3s that D&H purchased, there are 7 surviving.
I'd love to see Adirondack get one of their RS-3s running this year in commemoration of the 60th anniversary of New York Central's discontinuance of service on the Adirondack Division. That final train was handled by RS-3 #8256 (just one number removed from Adirondack's #8255) and marked the end of passenger trains, and really any service, on the Adirondack Division until it was revived by Frank Menair in 1979 for the 1980 Winter Olympics. New York Central did run a special excursion for a railfan club sometime after the 1965 shutdown, hauled by a trio of E8s (a rare appearance by 6-axle locomotives on the division, which was mostly operated with RS-3s and FA-1s) but that was it.
On the subject of PRR steam engines hitting the halfway point, the T1 Trust has announced that their all-new PRR T1 4-4-4-4 Duplex is now at 52.5% complete, with hopes of fire-up in 2030.
Right now they are getting closer to completion of the frame, with the outside plates starting to go on and get welded out. The frame is still upside down, but will start being flipped to get welded on all sides. Originally, these frames were all cast in one-piece, but there simply aren't that many foundries left that can do a big enough pour to cast the frames, and those that could wanted an extremely high price per attempt and guessed it woud take two or three attempts to get it right, so the decision was made to make the frame in segments that would be welded together. That would also make it much easier to perform final machining, since they could manipulate and turn the individual weldments to machine them before welding the frame together, instead of having to manipulate the entire frame. Another change made because of modern situations is that it will not feature a concealable drop coupler. Sadly, they are not legal on new builds now due to OSHA regulations.
The next big project is casting the cylinders, complete with bores for the Franklin rotary poppet valves
American Steam Railroad Preservation Association has announced that Reading #2100 will likely be test-fired some time in the next two months, marking the final stages of about 10 years of work. The #2100 was one of the four Reading T-1s used by Reading Co. for their Iron Horse Ramble excursions, and like the #2101 it ended up in Streigel's scrapyard in Maryland in 1967, when the Reading Co. sold them off, having not run a Ramble since 1964. Ross Rowland rescued the #2100, along with the #2101, in 1975 while getting the #2101 ready for the American Freedom Train, even swapping tenders between the two engines and running the #2101 with the #2100's tender. Ross Rowland got busy with running the #2101 from '76 to '79, and then the #614 from '80 onwards, after the #2101 was damaged in a roundhouse fire and traded to the B&O Railroad Museum, and the #2100 mostly sat in the old Western Maryland roundhouse at Hagerstown.
In '86, Ross Rowland and Lionel CEO Richard Kughn teamed up to get the #2100 restored to running condition, and it actually was test-fired and made a test run or two, but CSX sold the Hagerstown roundhouse for redevelopment, and after negotiations to purchase the roundhouse had failed, Rowland had to remove #2100 and #614 from the building. It was moved, placed in storage, and then spent the next 2 decades bouncing around the north east, changing owners and locations, but never actually running any excursions, despite being freshly overhauled. Finally, in late 2005, the #2100 was moved to Tacoma, Washington, and the following year, it pulled limited sightseeing trains for Payne's Golden Pacific Railroad, using Tacoma Rail's former Milwaukee Road line. That was an extremely short-lived venture, and the #2100 was given a half-assed oil-burning conversion that never worked properly, along with a hideous makeover that included red-painted running board skirts, a strobe light mounted under the headlight, and Ferroequus lettering on the tender. The #2100 was left in outdoor storage in Richland, with a lot of hand-wringing over it's fate.
The new owners, ASR, are working on it inside the ex-B&O West 3rd Street roundhouse in Cleveland, Ohio, owned by Midwest Railway Preservation Society. Ironically, MRPS's own steam locomotive, Grand Trunk Western #4070, has had to sit outside and restoration work has slowed to a crawl while the #2100 is there. ASR has decided to keep the #2100 oil-fired, but has completely removed the old system that was a catastrophe waiting to happen, and has re-engineered that system. The engine will also debut in the American Freedom Train paint that the #2101 wore in honor of the 250th birthday of the USA and the 50th anniversary of the American Freedom Train. No word on where it will run, but I'd guess that Cuyahoga Valley Railroad is one possibility.
B&O Railroad Museum has also said that they are hoping to have the cosmetic restoration of #2101, also to be done up in American Freedom Train appearance, completed by 2026. The #2101 ran pretty briefly after it's Reading career (1976-1978) before being damaged in a fire at the Silver Grove roundhouse that Chessie System was allowing the #2101 to be stored and overhauled in. The story has always been that the fire damaged the engine to a point that Rowland and Chessie System didn't feel comfortable putting iuit back in service but there was also an ulterior motive on both parts; the #2101's solid bearings had always been finicky and trading it for C&O #614 netted a fully roller bearing-equipped engine for Rowland, while Chessie System would get an engine with actual Chessie System corporate connections. I'll be honest, I don't love the AFT livery, with the dark blue cab, tender and boiler jacket, with red and white striping, and now there are going to be two engines in that paint scheme.
Wanna buy a steam locomotive? Nickel Plate 2-8-2 #587 is going up for auction by Kentucky Steam Heritage Corp. as part of a judgment against the locomotive’s owner for unpaid storage fees. The #587, a USRA Light Mikado built for NYC subsidiary Lake Erie & Western in 1918, was retired by Nickel Plate (who took over the LE&W in 1922) and donated the engine to the city of Indianapolis, who put it on display in Broad Ripple Park. Prior to being put on display, the locomotive's original tender was actually swapped with another NKP 2-8-2, #639, because the tender on #639 was in need of repair and 587's original tender was in good mechanical condition.
In 1976, the Indiana Museum of Transportation & Communication was growing concerned over the condition of the #587 and the museum attempted to get the locomotive from the park but was unsuccessful, with the Indianapolis Parks Department deeming that they did not have the authority to hand it over to IMOTAC. It would remain in Broad Ripple Park until October 1983, when the city of Indianapolis became interested in building a new public library in the park, but the only available location was where #587 was displayed. A group of people, called "Friends of 587", did a feasibility study and determined that the locomotive was a good candidate for restoration. ITOMAC, by then going by Indiana Transportation Museum, then signed a twenty-five-year lease on #587 from the Indianapolis Parks Department. An operational restoration was undertaken at Amtrak's Silver Grove facility was and the locomotive performed a successful test run on August 29, 1988
It would run a number of excursions on ITM's ex-NKP line, as well as adventuring off to various conventions and doubleheading with other luminaries like NKP #765, N&W #611 and N&W #1218. Following the 1989 NRHS Excursions, the Friends of 587 and ITM got into a legal dispute over the control of #587, and the feud would last nearly 2 years, with the engine sitting in storage in an eastside Indianapolis warehouse.The matter was settled in 1991, with ITM taking control of #587 and returning it to excursion service in the spring of that year. On November 2, 2002, with the locomotive's FRA-mandated rebuild approaching within a few months, #587 made its final runs at the ITM with an all day excursion over the museum's entire thirty-eight-mile line from Tipton to Indy. By that point, it was pretty worn out and in need of a heavy overhaul, and ITM began work on it to hopefully get it back running, and they even took full ownership of the engine from the Indianapolis Parks Department.
In 2018, ITM was evicted from their Forest Park site in Noblesville under court order. Most of the equipment was out of service, I believe they weren't able to run excursions anymore due to the condition of the equipment and the roadbed, the whole museum had begun to look more like a scrapyard, and there was equipment leaking chemicals into the ground. The lease had expired in 2017, the city wanted ITM out, and ITM tried to hang in and was eventually given the boot. This turned into a mad scramble to move the best of the equipment off of the property to the former General Tire plant in Logansport in hopes of setting up a new museum there, and attempting to sell off the rest. A lot of stuff was left behind and scrapped, while Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society saved some of the equipment left behind, and the #587 was sold to an unknown private owner who moved it to Kentucky Steam Heritage Corp.'s facilities in Ravenna, KY. The private owner was never announced, and when asked about the #587, KSH Corp. would say they were simply storing the locomotive until it's owner could find a new home for it. Well, apparently that owner stopped paying for storage, and now it's up for auction. But if you buy it, you've got 60 days to get it moved off the property.
As a footnote, the former site of Indiana Transportation Museum was rehabilitated into Nickel Plate Express, which continues to run excursions over the line. ITM had hoped to purchase the Logansport & Eel River Railroad after their move to Logansport, but the deal fell through and ITM was evicted from the L&ER property. Unable to fund another move, and owing creditors, they scrapped a lot of the stuff that escaped Noblesville to make a quick buck to pay off creditors, and ITM was administratively dissolved by the Indiana Secretary of State on March 5, 2023.
Western Maryland Scenic Railroad has also said that the #1309 is nearing reassembly. The #1309 was purchased from the B&O Railroad Museum eleven years ago, when their ex-LS&I 2-8-0 came due for restoration and WMSR determined it was too worn out and too small for their operations. The restoration was....turbulent, with the railroad discovering that the locomotive was in far worse condition than initially evaluated, employees stealing new parts off to sell for scrap, management repeatedly selling tickets for "The First Trip" only to have to refund them when they missed that goalpost, and eventually a complete change in management at WMSR and Trains donating the money to finally get the #1309 running. It has run somewhat sporadically since it was fired up and put in service December 17, 2021. It was temporarily out of service for maintenance work to its running gear and returned to service in early October 2023, only to be taken out of service again in January 2024, after a lubricator failure wiped out the pistons and rings. They've been fundraising to get new pistons and rings for the engine since then, and hopefully plan to have the big 2-6-6-2 up and running again this year. I'd like to see this engine (You can even run it for $1309 for an hour), but I'm going to wait until they get it assembled and put a bunch of runs on it, to make sure it stays operational before committing to a trip. I know I talked to a rather noted photographer about a year ago who mentioned, that while not something that has been talked about in railfan circles, the #1309 has missed a lot of regular weekends where it was supposed to be running. He lives local to WMSR and would go over there on a whim on a weekend when #1309 was slated to be running and would find them using diesel power.
I've always wondered who made the evaluation, or at least the claim, stating that C&O #1309 was practically a ready-to-run engine. When WMSR first looked at it at the B&O Railroad Museum, they reportedly did a mechanical evaluation, and I remember a statement being issued that claimed that the #1309 was in excellent shape and something to the effect of "we could put water in the boiler and fire it up and run it as it sits if the FRA would let us." I don't know if whoever did the initial evaluation flubbed things that bad, or if it was a baseless claim by someone in management for PR purposes.
The reality is, C&O #1309, a 1949 Baldwin product, was a late construction domestic steam engine by a manufacturer that had arguably slipped to a distant third place. In fact, the #1309 was the very last domestic engine built by Baldwin, and at that point, Baldwin had less than a decade left before quitting manufacturing steam locomotives entirely (1956). The construction of the huge Eddystone manufacturing complex in the '30s had been a mistake, since it never actually saw 100% utilization of it's capacity in locomotive building, and buying the land and constructing the facility had financially strained the company and indebted it to Westinghouse. Baldwin still turned out plenty of steam locomotives in the '30s and '40s, but they got into the situation of selling a basic, cheap locomotive (ignoring their fascination with the disastrous Duplex Drive design). There are lots of claims that their locomotives were poorer quality than Alco and Lima, and there's also a lot of tales of Baldwin engines that were delivered with horrendous balancing issues, or were too large or heavy for the railroad they were designed for. By '49 the steam market was dwindling, their diesels were failing to win over customers, and they were already talking of a merger with one-time competitor Lima.
On top of that, the #1309 was an engine that wasn't really wanted by it's owner. C&O placed an order for 25 compound articulated 2-6-6-2s from Baldwin, class H-6, based on the earlier H-4 2-6-6-2s, a 1912 Alco product. Why an Alco design from Baldwin? Alco had built their last steam locomotives in 1948, and even then had had to outsource tender construction to Lima because Alco had already converted their tender shop for diesel construction. Why more steam locomotives in '49? C&O was primarily a coal hauler and didn't want to be perceived as biting the hand that fed it. But C&O changed their mind before construction of the H-6s were done, and they changed the order from 25 engines to just 10. The H-6s were promptly put in service on the Logan, WV, coal district, working out of the Peach Creek Terminal. This was a pretty backwater assignment, but they were slogging it out on sharp curves and steep grades dragging heavy coal trains around, and by the time they went into service, C&O was pretty much deciding to wind down steam operations, so they were getting a bare minimum of maintenance to keep them running.
So you have engines of questionable quality, that were beat to death by an indifferent owner before retirement in 1957, and then the #1309 sat outdoors for nearly twenty years by the C&O's Peach Creek Terminal roundhouse. The #1309, along with several other steam locomotives, were removed from storage in 1972 for a cosmetic restoration and later moved to the B&O Railroad Museum in 1975, where restoration was completed, and the 1309 was then put on outdoor static display. It sat outside in Baltimore, MD weather, with little protection or attention until it was purchased by WMSR in 2014.
So, yeah, I don't know who said it was basically ready to run, but that was far from the truth, and the engine has had lingering issues between that and the tempestuous restoration.
NickD said:Wanna buy a steam locomotive? Nickel Plate 2-8-2 #587 is going up for auction by Kentucky Steam Heritage Corp.
Group buy? Any idea what transportation would cost, or a place to store it?
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) said:NickD said:Wanna buy a steam locomotive? Nickel Plate 2-8-2 #587 is going up for auction by Kentucky Steam Heritage Corp.
Group buy? Any idea what transportation would cost, or a place to store it?
No clue on transportation costs, although it does have a slight advantage in that its still disassembled from it's move from Noblesville to Ravenna. So you don't have to go through having the boiler lifted off the frame and all that jazz. I do have to wonder how complete it is though. Consider, it was partially disassembled and undergoing overhaul when ITM was evicted from Noblesville, and there was then a mad rush to get it moved to Ravenna before the cutting torches were fired up. Wonder how much stuff got left behind or was never accounted for. And, I'm not accusing Kentucky Steam Heritage, but I wonder if anything has grown legs and walked off while it's been stored disassembled at Ravenna. Whether it's the meth-heads look for a couple bucks in scrap money or unscrupulous railfans looking to add to their memorabilia collection (there was one a few years ago who was stealing horns and builder's plates off active locomotives and trying to defend it as "preservation".)
The big thing is; how much does the current owner owe in storage fees? As I understand it, whoever purchases it has to cover, at minimum, the owed fees. That will all go to KYSHCo. and anything more than that goes to the current owner of the engine.
Everyone is already speculating on which of the big guns will end up buying it. Years ago, Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society would have been a good bet, since they already have NKP #765, but they kind of have their plate full, with Wabash 0-6-0 #534 and NKP 2-8-2 #624 awaiting a future cosmetic restoration, the ongoing restoration of their Empire State Express passenger car set, and the pending, possible operational restoration of NYC 4-8-2 #3001, not to mention trying to develop infrastructure on the Indiana Northeastern to support their Indiana Rail Experience.
Of course, everyone has said IRM, but IRM does not have an unending pool of money or an unlimited amount of space. Age of Steam Roundhouse has come up, who does seem to have a bottomless pocket, and is located in NKP territory and already has an NKP Berkshire, but I'd hate to see a once-operational engine that was partway through overhaul go to a static-only museum. There's been complaints about how AoS has been buying up a lot of possibly restorable engines and entombing them, making it hard for some operations to find good candidates. I've heard people say that Cuyahoga Valley should buy it, so that they could have their own steam locomotive, instead of relying on visiting engines, but their shops are having enough work keeping their Alcos running, I couldn't imagine adding a steam engine to the mix. There were some semi-joking Reading & Northern suggestions, but #2102 has a lot of time before its 1472 and #425 is almost done and back in service. I'd say that the #587 would actually be a good fit for Steamtown (they already have an NKP Geep and NKP Berkshire, it's shorter drivers are better suited to the grade profile than the #3713, and it has a trailing truck, so it would run fine in reverse, plus the USRA is an important part of railroading history) but Steamtown hasn't acquired any steam locomotives in the NPS era, and they're still mucking about wih #3713 some 25+ years later.
In 1989, the #587 was a big guest for the 1989 NRHS Convention, which included a doubleheaded excursion with N&W 2-6-6-4 #1218, as well as a huge Roanoke-Lynchburg tripleheader with N&W #611 and N&W #1218. As someone put it, after the news of #587's auction broke, "When I saw #587, #611, and #1218 at the Asheville convention, it seemed like the beginning of a steam Renaissance. The future looks rather different for those three now, especially #587." Along with the #587's turbulent fate, the #1218 went out of service two years later for an overhaul that was never finished and now sits at Roanoke, and the #611 went cold in '94, then was fired up again in 2017, and has only ran sporadically since.
Another steam locomotive was recently sold for a good cause. Dollywood had an ex-East Tennessee, Virginia & Georgia Railway/Southern Railway/Knoxville, Sevierville and Eastern Railway/Smoky Mountain Railway 2-8-0, #107, that had been on display in front of the park since 1961, when the park was still "Rebel Railroad." Rebel Railroad was a 3-foot narrow gauge founded by Grover Robbins, who had opened a similar park in Blowing Rock called Tweetsie Railroad, which operated a genuine Tweetsie (East Tennessee & West North Carolina) engine and one ex-White Pass & Yukon 2-8-2s. The Rebel Railroad was similarly narrow gauge, also using ex-WP&Y 2-8-2s, so the standard gauge #107 was strictly a display piece. Rebel Railroad became Gold Rush Junction in 1966, then Silver Dollar City Tennessee in 1976, before becoming Dollywood Express in 1986, and the #107 was out front through it all.
The Knoxville and Holston River Railroad, which operates the Three Rivers Rambler excursion out of Knoxville, TN, runs a similar 2-8-0, with the same ETV&G/SOU/KS&E/SMRR heritage, #154, which had been donated to and on display in Knoxville, TN. Late last year, the K&HR approached Dollywood about purchasing the #107 to potentially return to service. In typical Dolly Parton fashion, they were told that the K&HR could have the engine for free if they made a donation of the value they were willing to pay for the engine to the Mountain Ways Foundation to support those effected by Hurricane Helene.
I'd be surprised if they actually restore the #107 to operation. As it is, the Three Rivers Rambler has three steam locomotives all out of service currently: Washington & Lincolnton 2-8-0 #203 is currently out for the 1472 FRA inspection, San Antonio and Aransas Pass 4-4-0 #60 which has not run since 2002 on the Stone Mountain Railroad and was donated in 2013, and Southern 2-8-0 #154, which was just taken out of service for it's 1472. That's a lot on their plate, and the #107 was run by a financially-ailing railroad from '42 to '54, then sat outside for the past 64 years with little to no attention. I can't imagine it's in great shape, and overhauling any of their other three engines would likely be much less work.
I will say, not a huge fan of how the #154 (and #107, by extension) looks, mostly due to the numberboard/headlight arrangement, but I love how Southern #401 (and #385, by extension) looks. The #401, built about 17 years later than the #154, is one of the prettiest little engines running.
I had no idea there were that many White Pass and Yukon route steam locomotives still in operation.
Back in 2014 (I can't believe that was over ten years ago) we rode up over the pass being pulled by #73 spending most of our time outside of our carriage. The scenery is spectacular and it was cool looking across the valleys and seeing the other diesel trains going up behind and ahead of us. It was a really good experience that I'd highly recommend to anyone that can get themselves up there.
Last night, Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society posted a video of a doublheaded excursion with NKP #587 and #765 on home rails back in the day. I don't think this is a prelude to them buying the #587, I just think it's because the #587 is in railfan news currently.
In reply to adam525i :
There's quite a few WP&Y engines that have made the pilgrimage south to the contiguous US. Ironic because during WWII, the US Army was buying up any surplus narrow-gauge steam power theye could get their hands on and shipping it up to Alaska in preparation for an invasion of Alaska. A bunch of stuff from abandoned mine operations in Alaska, re-gauged 3'6" USATC S118 2-8-2s, Utah & Northern 2-6-0s, Silverton Northern 2-8-0s, East Tennessee & Western North Carolina 4-6-0s, Denver & Rio Grande Western K-27s and K-28s. It all went north and very little came south. Well, it all came south to Auburn, Washington between '44 and '46, where it was mostly scrapped. Quite a bit of it was damaged by a 1943 roundhouse at Whitehorse and wasn't worth repairing, and also most of the railroads it had been requistioned from were in a serious state of decline before WWII and simply didn't need the power returned to them.
The engines that came south:
WP&Y second #4, a 2-6-2 built for Klondike Mines Railway, which was abandoned in 1913 and the assets were sold to the Yukon Consolidated Gold Corp. in 1925. The locomotive was purchased by the WP&YR in 1942, it was retired in 1950, and it came south to a bunch of tourist operations before ending up at South Park Rail Society and was restored to service at Como, Colorado in 2017.
WP&Y 2-8-2 #61, which was built new in June of 1900, retired in 1944, and then placed as riprap along the Skagway River in 1949. It was retrieved and moved to the Skagway Shops in 1990, then sold to Mid-West Locomotive & Machine Works in Wisconsin in 2003, before being traded to Stathi Pappas' Stockton Locomotive Works in 2016. It's undergoing a restoration, but, surprise, an engine that was sunk in a river bank for 40+ years needs a lot of work.
WP&Y 2-8-2 #70, purchased new in May of '38, retired in 1963. It was sold to Silver Dollar City Tennessee in 1977, which then became part of Dollywood in 1986, when it also received the name Cinderella. It uses the tender from USATC S-118 #195 1950., while the original #70 tender was assigned to Rotary #1 from 1950 to 1953, then reassigned to Loco #190 from 1953 to 1960, before being used to make Flatcar #1201 in 1962.
WP&Y 2-8-2 #71 has a similar tale to the #70, purchased new in May of '38, retired in 1963, sold to Silver Dollar City Tennessee in 1977, which then became part of Dollywood in 1986, when it received the name Beatrice. As far as I can tell from reading on Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum, it was never fired after leaving Skagway. The #71 sits beside the engine house, out of view, and is a candidate for restoration. Plans have been made to do so, and abandoned, in the past. Received the #196 tender in 1950, then received the #192 hybrid tender (ex-Rotary #2) in 1977 (by SDCT). Hybrid tender consisted of the original #69 tender underframe, and the original #71 tender body. Hybrid tender scrapped in 1985. The original #71 tender underframe used to make hybrid tender for #69 in 1951, while the original #71 tender body used to make hybrid tender for Rotary #2 in 1951. The photo of it is it leaving Alaska by barge in the '70s, along with a bunch of other equipment.
WP&Y #72, well part of it, also came south with the #70 and #72. Again, purchased new in 1938, retired in 1964. Unlike the #70 aand #71, the #72 was used as a stationary boiler from 1964 to 1969 and was severely damaged in the 1969 Skagway roundhouse fire. All but its chassis was scrapped in 1977, and the chassis was sold to Silver Dollar City Tennessee in 1977. The chassis was eventually fully parted out and scrapped in 1999 by Dollywood. The tender had been swapped for one off of the#197 tender, and it was also damaged in the 1969 Skagway roundhouse fire. The tender body was scrapped shortly thereafter, but the tender underframe was sold to the reborn Sumpter Valley in 1977. It was scrapped by 2015. No clue on what happened to the original tender. Photo is of it after the fire, but before the boiler and cab were cut off. Interesting that you can see what the tender water level was during the fire.
WP&Y #80 is an odd one, in that this is one of the engines shipped up to Alaska, and then returned without being scrapped. Originally, built in 1920 as the Sumpter Valley's second #101, it was renumbered to #20 in the same year. It was purchased by the WP&YR in 1940, shipped to Skagway in 1941, becoming their #80, and then was retired in 1958, sold to the new Sumpter Valley Railroad in 1977 and shipped back to Oregon. It had been delivered to WP&Y in 1941 with the tender from Sumpter Valley #18, an earlier SVRR 2-8-2. The #80 then received the ex-#191 or #194 tender from Rotary #1 or #2 in 1949, and the original White Pass #80 tender (ex-SV #18) was assigned to Rotary #1 from 1949 to 1950. The #80's original tender was reassigned to #190, when that loco was sold to the Tweetsie R.R. in 1960, and the replacement #80 tender (ex-#191 or 194) put on display with #195 in 1962. The #80, now returned to it's SVRR #20 identity, is paired with the former tender of Sumpter Valley Railway #19 and is on static display.
White Pass & Yukon #81 was also another Sumter Valley engine that went up and back. It was built as their second #102, but was renumbered to #19 in 1920. Purchased by the WP&Y in 1940, it was shipped to Skagway in 1941, paired with the tender off of Sumter Valley 4-6-0 #50.It was retired in 1957, then sold to Sumpter Valley Railroad in 1977 and regained it's identity as SV #19, and was restored to operation on Sumpter Valley Railroad in 1995. The #81 received the ex-#191 or 194 tender from Rotary #1 or 2 in 1949, and in 1993, WP&YR #81 (by then, Sumpter Valley Railroad #19) received the former tender of SVRR #20. The original #81 tender (ex-SV #50) was assigned to Rotary #2 from 1949 to 1951, and the body of this tender was used to make hybrid tender for WP&Y #69 in 1951. The replacement #81 tender (ex-#191 or 194) was sold to Sumpter Valley in 1977, and then returned to WP&YR in 1990. The body of the latter tender was substituted for the original #73 tender body in 2001.
WP&Y #190 was the first of a batch of US Army Trans. Corp. 42" gauge S-118 2-8-2s that were regauged to 36" for use on the WP&Y. Originally, US Army #190, and used by the Army on the WP&YR, it was then transferred to the WP&Y, keeping the same number, in 1946. Out of service by 1959 it was sold to the tourist park iteration of the Tweetsie Railroada in 1960, as Tweetsie #190 Yukon Queen. It had received original #70 tender from Rotary #1 in 1953. but when the #190 was sold to Tweetsie in 1960, it went to Tennessee with the original White Pass #80 tender (ex-SV #18), instead of either of its previous tenders. The original #190 tender assigned to Rotary #1 in 1953, and was scrapped in 2020. The #190 operates to this day at Tweetsie Railroad, along with genuine Tweetsie 4-6-0 #12. And there's an odd connection there, in that most of Tweetsie's operable motive power went north to the WP&Y, requisitioned by the US Army, but the #12 was the only engine to stay behind. The other Tweetsie power that went to Alaska in '42 was destroyed in the 1943 Whitehorse roundhouse fire and scrapped.
WP&Y #192 is another of the 1943-built US Army S-118s. Originally, USA #192, and used by the Army on the WP&YR it was ransferred to the WP&YR in 1946, and retired in 1957. It was sold to the Rebel Railroad in 1960, becoming #192. The Rebel Railroad wasa founded by the same developer who created the new Tweetsie Railroad, so it makes sense thata he got more of the WP&Y S-118s. The Rebel Railroad sold out to Gold Rush Junction in 1970, then Gold Rush Junction sold out to Silver Dollar City Tennessee in 1977 and SDCT sold out to Dollywood in 1986. It kept the same number through it all but also gained the nickname Klondike Katie when Dollywood took ownership. It received hybrid tender from Rotary #2 in 1953, which consisted of the original #69 tender frame, and the original #71 tender body. The #192 then received ex-#196 tender from Loco #71 in 1977. The original #192 tender was assigned to Rotary #2 in 1953, and this tender wasa sold to Sumpter Valley R.R. in 1977, and returned to WP&YR in 1990. The body was scrapped between 2004 and 2012, and the underframe used to make Auxiliary Tender #733 in 2019. The #192's hybrid tender (ex- Rotary #2) was assigned to Loco #71 in 1977 and that tender wasa scrapped in 1985. The #192 is still the main power at Dollywood and it's believed by many that the #192 is probably the steam engine that has the most miles put on it in the preservation era. The loop at Dollywood may not be long, but the #192 has traveled it day in and day out, multiple times a day, for decades.
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