hey construction guys!!! part 2

as seen here: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/dusterbd-does-a-low-budget-shop-rebuild-not-the-gr/103346/page1/#post1845763

so this is what my ceiling looks like now: [URL=http://s54.photobucket.com/user/dusterbd13/media/20150606_152417_zpsuktc9ope.jpg.html][/URL] [URL=http://s54.photobucket.com/user/dusterbd13/media/20150603_171937_zpsxgu5dnhc.jpg.html][/URL] [URL=http://s54.photobucket.com/user/dusterbd13/media/20150603_171926_zpsnxmpavyw.jpg.html][/URL]

goal is neat, clean, reflective, and CHEAP. the tin quote, just for the 500 sqft of tin, was 270. that doesn't include anything else id need to get it up there.

I also have 4 4 bulb recessed/dropped ceiling light fixtures, and the 7 2 bulb four footers for lights. so, ideas? I cant get past tin or drywall or dropped ceilings. got to be a better/cheaper option. I also want to keep it pretty close to the current ceiling, so I don't lose much space. granted, I need a step ladder to get to the top shelves on one cabinet already, so maybe loosing some space wont be such a bad thing.

I don't know. so please, help me out here.

They make a scrim, which is pretty much a cloth you could put up there. It is pretty cheap. You could tie it across and connect it where your current boards meet.

Not sue if much is going to be brighter or more reflective than what you have.

Umm...sheetrock??

Perhaps I don't understand the question....

installing sheetrock would cost too much space, as well as money. looking at alternatives. especially ones that will allow future access to the plumbing/electrical/hvac hidden by whatever ceiling I put up.

Dusterbd13 wrote: installing sheetrock would cost too much space

Why? Leave the ductwork, pipes, etc exposed. Sheetrock above. No, it won't be easy, and even less easy if you want it to look like a Pro did it, but it's your cheapest option.

As funds allow, replace the inefficient flex-ductwork with metal ducts.

Solid duct would be more efficient? Tell me more. ..

Ill price sheetrock and supplies on my nightly Lowe's trip.

There is nothing cheaper than Sheetrock, and it is only 1/2" thick.

It is, however, very labor intensive and takes some skill, and some sweat. If you have never done it before, a ceiling like that will teach you why you never want to do a ceiling like that with Sheetrock. Especially alone.

If your time has no value, Sheetrock. See you in about 3 months.

If your tim is valuable, don't do Sheetrock. Spend more money.

Dusterbd13 wrote: Solid duct would be more efficient?

No.

There's a lot more to it than that.

Wondering around Lowe's, found 4x9 1/2 inch osb for the same price as drywall. Wood is something i know.

Would osb, painted gloss white be a bad idea?

Ive done a little drywall. Enough to know that it is not the answer to this problem.

Maybe you can explain what problem we are trying to solve?

If it's appearance, Sheetrock wins hands down. I use it in million dollar houses all the time.

Painted OSB will look like crap regardless of what you do. You had might as well paint the insulation board.

OSB will also reflect less light, even with gloss paint. It's a rough surface. It will absorb light.

Personally, if it is a utility space, I'm fine with the ThermoPly. Don't mind the look at all.

If you want durability, ISB might win.

What are your goals?

If you've never hung OSB on a ceiling, you might be in for a surprise. It's not easy.

Goals:

Visually more appealing to look at while laying on your back, half out from under the car, bleeding. Also for resale and personal preference.

Reduce noise and fume migration into the house

Reduce crap fallout from the ceiling.

Light reflection.

I am figuring that almost anything would be better than the dirty, poorly installed, and somewhat mangled thermoply.

That being said, can I realistically patch and paint the thermoply? That would be the cheapest and easiest solution, I believe.

I doubt paint will stick to ThermoPly.

Tell me why drywall is not the answer. Is it just that you don't like working with it? Everything you are saying is exactly why I would choose drywall.

The primary reason is because it is a product designed to be sealed and patched with tape and joint compound. That means it seals well against dust, noise, fumes, etc., and can be made into an excellent paint surface that most people find appealing.

Plywood (or other sheet products) can't do that without a lot of time, and caulk.

It meets every single one of your goals.

Pretty much it's that I suck at drywall. Can never seem to make it do what I want like I can with wood and metal.

You mentioned tin in your first post. I am assuming you considered corrugated roofing tin...

You know what a quality installation of corrugated tin ceiling has above it?

Drywall.

Because there are things it simply does better.

So pretty much im down to leave itthe hhell alone, or drywall as my realistic, inexpensive options to meet my goals?

Dusterbd13 wrote: Pretty much it's that I suck at drywall. Can never seem to make it do what I want like I can with wood and metal.

Fair enough.

(But the price will go up for any other product)

Since you feel good about working with wood, how about a pre-finished sheet product like marlite?

The good news is you won't have to paint it, and it works like any other wood sheet product.

You will need to lay it out to use battens on a grid pattern (like 2'x2'). If you use pre-finished battens, you can get a nice white reflective surface that needs no paint.

But you WILL spend more money.

Sheetrock is about $10 per sheet. FRP can hit nearly $45 per sheet.

The materials for a complete acoustical ceiling will be about $1-1.50 per SF. Corrugated metal, about $1 per SF.

Drywall is about $.35 per SF.

I'd just paint it, patch up the really bad spots with whatever. It's just a garage, and if you don't like it you'll only be out like $40.

Dusterbd13 wrote: goal is neat, clean, reflective, and CHEAP.

Yeah, I hate to tell you, but you just described drywall.

But if you are competent with wood, drywall doesn't have to be scary.

The hanging is pretty basic, and a good coat of ceiling texture will let you get away with only 1 coat of joint compound, even poorly done.

The trick to hanging drywall is knowing which gaps you don't have to worry about. The trick to mudding and taping is to work fast and fluidly (low angle, and BEND the knives), knowing you get a 2nd chance if you need it.

I vote posterboard with pictures of scantily dressed women. Second choice would be body panels hung from drop ceiling wires.

Is this the type of "tin" you already priced?

(aluminum ceiling/soffit)?

http://www.menards.com/main/mobile/building-materials/roofing-soffits-gutters/aluminum-soffit/sell-even-16-x-12-aluminum-solid-soffit-covers-16-sq-ft/p-1351481-c-13251.htm?freeFormRowId=

If time isn't a problem and expense is try looking on craigslist for someone selling aluminum soffit cheap. Or wait till the Depot or Lowes is clearing out a slow mover or changing suppliers. Personally I think there is a whole rats nest of problems( ducts, plumbing, supports etc.) up there that you might want to save some coin for an "easy button" solution.

SVreX wrote:

Dusterbd13 wrote: Solid duct would be more efficient?

No. There's a lot more to it than that.

True... I'm just looking at some of the pictures and how some of the flex duct is routed. Think of it like an exhaust system (remember an engine is little more than a fancy air pump). You want the fewest bends and restrictions as possible - easier to do that with hard duct. But given your budget considerations, I'd try to clean up the existing routing first. Hard duct generally looks better, although some of that is lost when insulation is added (making insulated look good takes a skilled insulator). I'm just going by years of doing engineering for commercial, office and inustrial spaces.

The ex- and I (along with a couple of friends) sheet-rocked the ceiling in her garage. It's definitely a ton of work, even with a rented sheetrock lift (10' ceiling). Probably the crappiest task was dropping the garage door tracks and openers. And cutting out the bazillion holes for the receptacles I added (and make damn sure all of the receptacles work before you rock the wiring closed).

While we didn't have to deal with plumbing, her garage does have a I-beam spanning the width and the steel I-beam columns on each end supporting it. She painted the ceiling white, but being a garage she didn't bother taping the joints.

Now all of that said, is the space above living space? As far as I know, most building codes require at least 1 layer of sheetrock (sometimes 2) between a garage and living areas. Thoughts on that Paul?

The space above is the master bedroom. So theres that.

IVealmost convinced myself that drywall is the way to go. It wwould definitely give me more practice for if I ever have to do it somewhere that matters.

Current thoughts are to take 2x4 and turn them on end for a 3 1/2 drop to clear a lot of obstruction as well as make my lights recessed. Thoughts?

And what would you suggest to clean up the duct work?

So many questions, so little time...

Duster, I may owe you a bit of an apology. I know it is common to have a few details here about one's life, and a few more over there. But I am not a very good stalker, and can't always keep the details of everyone's house straight when they post online in multiple threads. I am only good at reading details in a particular thread, not good at following links, or connecting the details.

I REMEMBER seeing a picture of your garage, or perhaps the hole you put in the wall. That doesn't mean I remember they were all the same house.

So, here's some of the details that matter that may or may not have been included in this thread...

-,Your shop is an attached garage. (Mine is neither, so I don't assume that)

• Your BR is over the shop

• You have 14' ceilings.

• You do multiple things, which may include welding and sawdust.

Ok, so now maybe I can try again.

• Ceiling material. Drywall is required by the building code, and the exposed ThermoPly may be a no-no (not sure of the flame spread). But it's worse than that. 5/8" fire rated type X is required (and its heavy as crap).

• You are not required to add this to an existing structure, but you are required to use it on new work, and permitted work. Permits are generally required for work over a certain dollar amount.

• Even though it is not required, there is NO OTHER material I would consider if it was my house, basically because I don't like my wife sleeping over a room full of gasoline, other flammables, and lots of hazardous activities and fuels with no fire separation. I would completely finish it, tape it with fire tape, and encase every duct and beam with the same fire code gypsum.

• insulation. If the ThermoPly is all you've got, it's not anywhere near enough. You need R-19 or better. That stuff is less than R-3. This should be fixed before installing a ceiling.

• Height- why do you care how thick your ceiling is if you have 14' ceilings?

• Ductwork- Metal duct (when well installed) CAN have more efficient air FLOW than flex, but not necessarily a more efficient system. The insulation could be better or worse, and the same for duct leakage and sealing. The MOST important component of an efficient system is proper leak sealing, which anyone can do. Not everyone can insulate well, and very few people can do metal duct well. It's not a DIYer friendly job. For the average residence, flex can work just fine. I would put some effort into making every duct as straight as possible, well supported, and stretched tightly. Then seal it well. Metal will be expensive, and may produce no measurable positive results.

There you have it. I have once again said much too much, and you have wasted a perfectly good afternoon reading my dribble. Have I messed up your life enough? Lol!