Home improvement help: interior doors

The house we moved into last summer was built in 1937. In one room, we have french doors separating the room from the living room. Unfortunately, the doors are too tight. If one door is shut, the other door won't clear it to shut. If we shut both doors simultaneously, they will shut, but at the expense of forcing the doors out into the frame quite a bit.

I would like to create some gap for them, so they function as doors should. But I have no clue how to do that. I'm also guessing they were custom made to fit the opening, given how narrow they are. Knowing that, I really don't want to screw them up.

Suggestions on how to proceed? My first guess is to plane them, but I have no idea how to do that.

Pics:

I'd take a belt sander to the middle edge of the door until it fit.

First, are both doors plumb? Check them with a level and check the hinges for play or screws that backed out. If that is not all well and good but screws are tight - you can shave a little from under each hinge with a wood chisel to adjust it and gain clearance at the same time or, as Toyman said, run a belt sander down the edge of one or both doors and repaint.

How many times have they been painted? A thick layer of paint on the doors and casings will cause your problem because you've got 6 surfaces that have been painted. Might just need to strip the paint. If each door won't easily stay fully closed with the other open it's a clue that thick paint may be causing the issue.

There's something funky going on with the alignment of the doors and the frame. Look at the upper right hand corner of the last photo, there's a big taper between the door and frame. Also, where the doors meet at the bottom they aren't aligned.

I'm guessing the house has settled over the years and that's causing the fitment issues. I also suspect the doors aren't original to that opening, based on the filler piece at the top that's in between the doors and the door frame.

As mentioned, get a level and spend some time analyzing the situation - see if the frame is plumb and square, then check the doors to see if they've sagged. Cleaning the paint off the edges may well help, also see if the hinges have been shimmed or need shimming to hold the doors in the proper alignment.

The alignment does look funky on the right door. Also, try tightening the hinge screws, I had a number of doors that were fixed by doing that.

FWIW, this is how I planed one of the 3 doors that didn't get fixed by tightening screws. The planer is from Harbor Freight. I didn't go much beyond the paint.

Its better to plane the sides with the hinges not the handles. You could run out of room for the handles to go back right. You can always chisel out new sections for the hinges.

I personally would have used a circular saw with diablo blade and rip cut it. Braced the saw against some angle iron that runs the length of the door. With a c clamp on either end and wood shims protecting the door from imprinting. It would save a lot of time and if measured right can be very square.

I'm not good enough with a circular saw to attempt that. Anyway, I removed something like 1/16th of an inch, so no worries about the handles. If I thought it was more I would've done the hinge side.

no way on the circular saw unless you love sanding off blade marks. sorry if that's your desired way. i've been doing this for years and it's hard to beat a handheld planer. in this case, i'd plane the non hinge side of the door that has the strike plate for the handle and not the handle door, that can bone up your backset for the handle. versus planing the hinge side, you only have one mortise to cut deeper versus multiples for the hinges.

if you really want to go at things, i'd first look at planing both doors, hinge side, only above the top hinges and below the bottom ones. it looks like your jamb kicks in at those locations(or is pulled outward at the center hinge) as you have a gap between the top and bottom hinges along the jamb but it disappears at the top and bottom of both doors. and that could be forcing the doors toward the middle as they close.

go get the HF planer and have at it, keeping square to the door. it might even come with a guide to help you.

I've had to do this with multiple doors in my 50 year old house. I used an electric plane/handheld joiner, a router, and a hinge template. Always plane the hinge side to keep the latch geometry intact.

Work in small increments - I usually take less than a 1/16th off at at time until I get a good feel for how much material needs to be removed. Once you've planed the door, temporarily remount the hinge to the door and use it to scribe a line which will help you align the hinge template. The hinge template will clamp on the door, and allow you to use the router to remove material in the exact shape of the hinge. Most templates I've seen will work with 1/4" and 1/2" corner radius hinges. If you have hinges with squared corners, you'll need to clean up the corners with a chisel.

You can get the plane and router at HF. The hinge template is available at Home Depot or Lowes.

Here's the hinge template I use: Ryobi Hinge Template

Thanks for the advice everyone. Just want I needed. I'll go pick up a planer and router.

As for the right door in the 3rd pic above, it looks especially jacked up in that photo because both doors are shut at the same time. That's possible, but only if I slowly close both doors together and then force them shut. If you look at the first 2 pics, you can see the natural way the right door hangs.

Just a note, a trim router will work fine with the Ryobi template. I used a Performax (Makita) from Menards but the trim router from HF will work just as well.

The guy who hung those doors did not know what he was doing- the fitment at the top right is not because of them being tight, they are hung wrong. A header piece has been added which doesn't belong there, and the cut is crooked.

Having said that, patgizz is right. A plane, or power planer is the right tool for the job. You can rent a power planer from some tool rental supplies.

Skillsaw is a good way to make a huge mess, and possible destroy the doors.

The one thing everyone has missed here is back-beveling. You don't want to cut the edge of the door square to the face. You WANT to bevel it so the back side is about 1/8" shorter than the front. That way, they clear each other when swinging, but are tight when shut.

It's not as hard as it sounds. If you have them well supported (like in a clamping bench shown above), you just hold the plane at a slight angle when planing it. 1st pass, you will take off a very skinny strip, 2nd pass a little wider, etc.

It is generally considered a skilled carpentry job, but you can do it if you are patient and prepared to take the doors on and off a half dozen times or more.

In reply to patgizz:

Well maybe i have some hidden talent i didnt know about, or maybe your technique is different? I rip hard wood pallets ( brads/staples and all) to soft wood 2x10s like this. No saw marks unless i stop mid cut or use another brand blade. Maybe your saw track ( if you use one ) has some deflection or battery powered saw?

Not trying to be an instagator, I have always thought it was kinda cool that it has worked.

jere wrote: I rip hard wood pallets ( brads/staples and all) to soft wood 2x10s like this.

How the heck do you turn an Oak tree into a Spruce tree with nothing but a circular saw??

SVreX wrote:

jere wrote: I rip hard wood pallets ( brads/staples and all) to soft wood 2x10s like this.

How the heck do you turn an Oak tree into a Spruce tree with nothing but a circular saw??

Insert "everything from" there, this touch screen phone keyboard is about as big as my thumb give me a break

SVreX wrote: The guy who hung those doors did not know what he was doing- the fitment at the top right is not because of them being tight, they are hung wrong. A header piece has been added which doesn't belong there, and the cut is crooked. Having said that, patgizz is right. A plane, or power planer is the right tool for the job. You can rent a power planer from some tool rental supplies. Skillsaw is a good way to make a huge mess, and possible destroy the doors. The one thing everyone has missed here is back-beveling. You don't want to cut the edge of the door square to the face. You WANT to bevel it so the back side is about 1/8" shorter than the front. That way, they clear each other when swinging, but are tight when shut. It's not as hard as it sounds. If you have them well supported (like in a clamping bench shown above), you just hold the plane at a slight angle when planing it. 1st pass, you will take off a very skinny strip, 2nd pass a little wider, etc. It is generally considered a skilled carpentry job, but you can do it if you are patient and prepared to take the doors on and off a half dozen times or more.

I might lean on you for further help.

In reply to dyintorace:

Sounds like I might be in your area soon.

SVreX wrote: In reply to dyintorace: Sounds like I might be in your area soon.

I'll hire you to fix the doors. Help offset some of your transportation cost. Save me from having to go buy a planer and router.