How large of an issue would it take for you to switch what shop you take your car to for repairs?

That's the gist of it. I've been taking my S2000 to a nearby dealer for annual scheduled service. Until recently, it hasn't needed anything more than that, oil changes, and tires.

Short version: Paid dealership to diagnose a CEL misfire issue. They misdiagnosed the issue. I did the work. I don't think they did anything wrong, but that they were lazy and half-assed the job wanting me to spend money before eliminating other likely causes, which I tested and found. They want me to spend money for diagnostic again. I think they should at least credit me for the half-assed diagnosis they did, and preferably also the cost of parts I used to make the repairs. That's only $60-$160 on what will almost certainly be a $1000+ service. But if they can't recognize they missed something simple, is that worth walking to another shop?

Longer Version: I started having a CEL misfire issue on my S2000 that I was at a loss to diagnose myself. Ended up punting the diagnosis to the local Honda dealer that I've been taking my S2000 to for regular service. They charged $60 to do the diagnostic that would be refunded if I used them for service. They pulled the new spark plugs I'd put in to hopefully fix the issue, and told me the problem was that I used non-OEM plugs. They were good, Bosch iridium plugs, but not OEM. They wanted to charge like $200 to replace the plugs... which they didn't even have in stock. I picked up my car and took care of it. Didn't solve the problem.

Fast forward. After finding a bad fuel injector, I finally did a compression test and discovered half compression on Cyl 4. berkeley. This is a bigger issue.

It's also something that, if they already had the spark plugs out to see that they were non-OEM, they could have just hooked up a compression tester right then to rule out the possibility of compression issues (which can easily cause misfires). They didn't do that, but just stopped at the first possible culprit before telling me to spend money.

Now, I want a shop to take care of this compression issue. I call them again, and they want me to pay $90 for them to more closely diagnose the issue. I think they should comp me for that. At the least, I would expect them to offer to comp the $60 I already paid.

It's not a huge deal, but... it really seems to me like they half-assed the job I paid them to do. Because they half-assed it, I spent unnecessary money and wasted a lot of time. They made a simple, completely understandable mistake. If they're not willing to own up to making a simple mistake and be willing to work with me after I've been a loyal customer, should I just tell them, "You're not the only game in town. I'm going to take my business to someone who strikes me as caring more about being diligent."?

I've never been satisfied with any work done by any shop on any vehicle at any time. I can screw it up myself for free.

Dealers make their money on service, not on selling cars. If they don't make conciliatory noises (and I suspect they won't), I'd seek out an independent shop with a good reputation that specializes in Honda and take my business there.

In reply to Beer Baron:

You already have concerns that the shop half assed the work you asked them to do and paid for. Now you're potentially looking at a partial engine strip down at least, what would make you think they won't half ass that work as well?

I made the mistake a few years ago to stick with a shop despite them going downhill fast. I'm paying a mechanic I trust to unfix some of the work right now...

I do think that was lousy diagnostics on their part. But the most I would expect would be a refund or credit for the $60 - I wouldn't expect them to pay for the plugs. (Is it reasonable to want them to - probably. Is it realistic? No.)

One question - does the dealer's name end in a color? (Rhymes with spew blight?) If so don't go to them for service. They strung us along on my parent's Accord transmission until it was out of warranty then refused to do anything on it. We sent it in three times for a mechanical noise in the front end and they said "no fault found," then a month out of warranty sent it in again and magically "needs a new transmission" with the same complaint and symptoms.

Anyway, in town I've been impressed by Bexley Automotive (on Delmar Dr, near east side) and Mike's Foreign Auto (W Broad St, near west side). Both do good work and follow up with you. I also like Wheels Unlimited (E Main St, near east side) but haven't used them for anything beyond alignments yet.

If you want to use a lift to do it yourself my lift will be freed up as soon as my parts MR2 spyder is stripped and the engine is moved over to the driver one. Come do that for me and then you can use my lift! ;-)

Have you gone to the shop, in person, and explained why you're irritated? Phone conversations are one thing, but actually being polite but firm in person usually gets the best results.

Indy shop did timing belt on my Probe GT once. They used hardware store bolts to hold the timing covers on (WTF happened to the bolts they took out?), and they didn't reinstall one of the OE engine lift loops. Never went to them again.

BoxheadTim wrote: You already have concerns that the shop half assed the work you asked them to do and paid for. Now you're potentially looking at a partial engine strip down at least, what would make you think they won't half ass that work as well?

I don't think they necessarily screwed anything up, so much as following procedures that led them to stop prematurely. I don't think the shop is going downhill. This shop is quite convenient for me, and it would be a minor annoyance to change.

However, I think it should be really easy for them to say, "yup, we should have looked a bit more closely. We'll own that oversight and do something for you to make up for it."

I ended up strait up asking the guy service advisor doing the scheduling, "If you miss something simple, and you're not willing to work with me to make it right, why should I give you my business?" He said he'll have service manager call me. I'm leaning towards putting it on them to sufficiently answer my question. No shortage of good options in town.

Brett_Murphy wrote: Have you gone to the shop, in person, and explained why you're irritated? Phone conversations are one thing, but actually being polite but firm in person usually gets the best results.

Good plan. I can swing by on my way home.

In reply to dculberson:

Nope. Dealership on the north-northeast side of town. Name sounds like they should be modifying Mustangs. I've had no complaints sofar.

I would expect them to at least comp the $60. It would be nice if they comp the cost of the plugs too. I think it would be quite fair for them to waive the $90 their quoting for diagnostic.

It's been said around here before - throwing parts at a problem is not diagnosis. Worse is that it's someone else throwing your money at an issue. You did your own initial diagnosis. The internets say there are known cracked valve/retainer issues on s2000s with your symptoms - half-assing it, like saying it's your plugs, could lead to needing a new engine. Do it yourself or find an indy you trust.

$60 is dirt cheap for "diagnostics", especially for a dealer. Most likely that is just a scan, them pulling a plug for inspection was an extra check for courtesy. If they saw improper (at least non factory) plugs I understand that they would want to eliminate that variable before moving any further.

Personally, I would have moved the spark plug to another cylinder and see if the misfire followed before condemning them. They could have done that and you could have done that. If they charged you for spark plugs and installation they would have been on the hook for follow up evaluation. But since you didn't have the repair done there they have 0 liability on misdiagnosis. That's the risk you take when you pull your vehicle to do DIY repairs. As for the compression test, again, for $60 I would not expect them to spend that kind of time on it without you having any repairs performed there.

As a former shop owner my answer to the question in the thread title is: When you see a pattern of recurring mistakes indicating a lack of competence or you begin to question their integrity.

Having read the OPs story my advice is to look for another shop that's a better fit for what you want. Dealers really don't want DIY customers. There's no way to make money working for someone who wants to do as much work as possible themselves and pay as little as possible for the paid work. I'm not bashing the OP or the dealership. It's fine that the OP wants to do his own work and only pay when he needs help. There are independent shops that are happy to work with someone like that but for a dealership it's just a nuisance.

In my previous career life I was a Honda tech in Columbus Ohio. There is only one place I worked I would actually recommend to people, its a Honda only independent I worked at while I was finishing my Bachelor's (the dealer went above and beyond to make taking night classes difficult before giving me an ultimatum). My toolbox is still in one of the website pictures.

Honnaman

That would be enough for me to find another shop.

logdog wrote: In my previous career life I was a Honda tech in Columbus Ohio. There is only one place I worked I would actually recommend to people, its a Honda only independent I worked at while I was finishing my Bachelor's (the dealer went above and beyond to make taking night classes difficult before giving me an ultimatum). My toolbox is still in one of the website pictures. Honnaman

I know dan! I worked as a Honda Tech in a Dealership in Columbus also.

In reply to APEowner:

I'm not looking to pay as little as possible for the work I'm having done. I want to get the best value for my money. That means, I'm willing to pay good money to a professional to do it right. But a few jobs that take a modest amount of time, no special equipment, and no great skill (e.g. brake pads and spark plugs) it just does not make sense for me to pay shop rate on.

Especially when said dealer doesn't even have the plugs in stock and I would have to leave the car there an extra 2-3 days, or bring it back in, in order to have them installed.

Whelp. Dealership is saying that, "if one cylinder is down on compression, the only thing we could do is replace the motor."

Erm... that sounds really suspect. My searches say that there are potential culprits that would not necessitate a whole new engine. Think I need a second opinion.

Yeah, you could just need new rings or valve stem seals...but since you had a failed injector, you probably have a melted piston and scored cylinder, meaning that you need an overbore.

Beer Baron wrote: Whelp. Dealership is saying that, "if one cylinder is down on compression, the only thing we could do is replace the motor." Erm... that sounds really suspect. My searches say that there are potential culprits that would not necessitate a whole new engine. Think I need a second opinion.

That means "we don't want to mess with diagnostics and tear down so you just need a new engine". Or they just want to blow you out of the water to make you go away.

Time for DIY tear down or find an independent.

In reply to Beer Baron:

Over the years, I have got the distinct impression that many dealerships generally don't want this type of work. They won't open up an engine or transmission in house and will generally just charge to replace the unit, farming the work out to who knows where.

GameboyRMH wrote: Yeah, you could just need new rings or valve stem seals...but since you had a failed injector, you probably have a melted piston and scored cylinder, meaning that you need an overbore.

Injector was flowing too high, not too low. Hadn't failed completely. Oil looks good. No smoke or anything from the exhaust. Misfire is only apparent at idle.

You really think it is likely to have berkeleyed up the whole piston and cylinder and not just be a burnt valve or something?

This still strikes me as, "We're too lazy to actually do a real diagnostic." Which makes me more inclined to talk to another shop for a second opinion.

Time to bust out the camera and start an s2000 build thread

Oh I assumed it had failed by flowing too low. If it was flowing too high a burnt valve is more likely. And yes they are absolutely being too lazy to see what the actual problem is, they just want to chuck a whole engine at it. Dealerships like to throw large and expensive parts/sub-assemblies at cars.

Frankly, other problems aside, I don't think you have any business getting your car worked on at a dealership. Only two types of people should take their cars to the dealership for work, people with cars that are still under warranty, and yuppies with too much money and not enough automotive knowledge.

In reply to GameboyRMH:

Yeah. I'd been going because, thusfar all it needed was scheduled maintenance, and I figured I'd make it up in resale value having an unmolested, 2-owner, 70k mile, S2000 with handy access to all the service records since new.