How long is this going to take?

In reply to carguy123:

You can't (seriously at least) defend Bush and accuse Obama of cronyism in the same sentence. It's Bush's cronyism that put incompetence in almost every office he appointed and started a war so he can make sure all of his military contract buddies and oil companies were well fed.

Blackwater

Haliburton (sp?)

"Great job Brownie!"

Remember when the Dems tried to block any of the repug's bills? They were publicly accused of hating America and it's troops. Remember when the Dems tried to reel in military spending? Once again, the Dems hated our troops.

Why is a President demonized for trying to give healthcare to all of it's citizens?

We need jobs! OK, how about I try to keep major AMERICAN manufacturers alive and employing people? No that's a bailout!

How about we subsidize corporate American farmers to the point of destroying our agriculture system and killing family farms? Yeah, that's OK!

How about we de-regulate our financial system so that millionares can become billionares while average citizens go bankrupt. Yeah, that's OK too!

How about we lift as many environmental restrictions as we possibly can so that oil companies can make historical profits? I mean what could possibly go wrong?

How about we send thousands of troops to die to free a country that didn't want to be "freed", then I can hang the man that tried to shoot my Daddy?Yeah, that's cool too!

JUST DONT TOUCH MY MEDICARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In reply to Cone_Junky:

He is not trying to give healthcare to all of our citizens, he is mandating purchasing health insurance. Totally different.

the only thing I am thankful for.. the residents of Deleware could see an idiot when have one and did not vote O'Donnel in

MrJoshua wrote: ...he is mandating purchasing health insurance.

I know everyone says this to make a point, but it's not really true. No one has to buy anything. At least not anything they didn't have to buy before this law.

We have to buy unemployment insurance. We have to pay Social Security, which is really retirement insurance if you think about it. But the health care law stops short of measures like those. It simply says that if you chose not to buy insurance you have to pay an aditional tax. The idea being that somehow, everyone pays into the pool. That drives the cost down.

MrJoshua wrote: In reply to Cone_Junky: He tried to give healthcare to all of our citizens, but the Repugs wouldn't let him so he is mandating purchasing health insurance. Totally different. Because Republicans hate children and sick people.

Fixed that for ya...you're welcome

http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2010/11/03/a-new-day-on-wall-street/

fast_eddie_72 wrote:

MrJoshua wrote: ...he is mandating purchasing health insurance.

I know everyone says this to make a point, but it's not really true. No one has to buy anything. At least not anything they didn't have to buy before this law. We have to buy unemployment insurance. We have to pay Social Security, which is really retirement insurance if you think about it. But the health care law stops short of measures like those. It simply says that if you chose not to buy insurance you have to pay an aditional tax. The idea being that somehow, everyone pays into the pool. That drives the cost down.

Forcing people to buy a product takes away the need for the people selling the product to compete on price. Combine that with adding the inefficiencies of the gov't as a bill collector to the already bloated costs of health care and you will never drive cost down.

government needs a sort of hippocratic oath.... First do no harm.

MrJoshua wrote: Forcing people to buy a product takes away the need for the people selling the product to compete on price.

I know everyone says this to make a point, but it's not really... wait. Sorry, I thought someone was listening.

(edit) wait- what? "Forcing" people to buy something (which no one is doing) will take away competition? How so? Only if there's a monopoly. If a E36 M3 ton of peopel have to buy something and I'm in a position to sell it I'm damn well going to try to get as much share of that action as I can. To do that I'm going to have to provide the best product.

Obama told me he was gonna change things. I'm going to hold him to the same standard Bush was: he's had two years and has done nothing constructive. He's also done some amazingly stupid stuff. He has pretty much told the Taliban when they can resume light of day operations, for instance.

Pelosi saying the health care bill had to pass so they could find out what was in it was the absolute height of arrogance.

Telling me that I HAVE to buy health insurance or get nicked by the tax boys at the end of the year added insult to injury. That means if I make enough money to pay my own way without resorting to health insurance then they are still going to snare another $2k on April 15. It wouldn't matter if I had paid $500,000.00 for my own private health care, they are still going to snag that $2k. That is just plain wrong.

About mandatory health insurance and competition: Here in South Cacakalacke car insurance is mandatory. The insurance companies were told they had to write policies on everyone no matter what and the prices got stupid high. About 15 years ago the state passed legislation which created a 'high risk pool' shared by all the insurance companies where multi DUI's etc were placed. Their rates went sky high while the rest of the rates dropped like a rock. For instance: The Trooper costs me $240 a year, full coverage with a $500 deductible. The Jensen is $140 a year, same coverage.

The real point: even though coverage is mandatory the insurance companies compete like crazy for the good drivers. This may or may not work with health insurance, you'd have to ask an actuary.

My share of my health insurance for my daughter and I is $129 a week, which is $6708 a year. That's why the whole preexisting condition thing pisses me off so bad. I don't deny there is change needed but Obama's way is not the way.

fast_eddie_72 wrote:

MrJoshua wrote: Forcing people to buy a product takes away the need for the people selling the product to compete on price.

I know everyone says this to make a point, but it's not really... wait. Sorry, I thought someone was listening. (edit) wait- what? "Forcing" people to buy something (which no one is doing) will take away competition? How so? Only if there's a monopoly. If a E36 M3 ton of peopel have to buy something and I'm in a position to sell it I'm damn well going to try to get as much share of that action as I can. To do that I'm going to have to provide the best product.

Hey man, I thought it was funny. I even voted mostly republican this time. It's still funny. I think some of us missed that whole 'joke' aspect.

And what policies has Obama put forth that haven't gotten passed Mr Cone?

Aww well, who cares. Neither parts has done anything but crap for the past, oh, I dunno, 100 years.

Jensenman wrote: Here in South Cacakalacke car insurance is mandatory. The insurance companies were told they had to write policies on everyone no matter what and the prices got stupid high. About 15 years ago the state passed legislation which created a 'high risk pool' shared by all the insurance companies where multi DUI's etc were placed. Their rates went sky high while the rest of the rates dropped like a rock. For instance: The Trooper costs me $240 a year, full coverage with a $500 deductible. The Jensen is $140 a year, same coverage. The real point: even though coverage is mandatory the insurance companies compete like crazy for the good drivers. This may or may not work with health insurance, you'd have to ask an actuary. My share of my health insurance for my daughter and I is $129 a week, which is $6708 a year. That's why the whole preexisting condition thing pisses me off so bad.

actually you can register as an unisured motorist in SC. It is the reason that my auto insurance was cheaper in CT than SC. Figure that out.

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:JS-cfuBgCmMJ:www.scdmvonline.com/DMVNew/forms/dmvb-18.pdf+register+uninsured+motorist&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjny4leY_g17GWbC7wgzJcIwNnxVdwc5gsh8c1q9FYXuXgQU5KuxGNRPPOf0Co27Tx_5NxrcxHIhUQCF40ax0JaXtlJ-5OuOKDzwYnSku-xW2eLBJlPVm89hIoLPNZPzwiQHdri&sig=AHIEtbTjJ2TdlFfft8f8d2RBz1YGOsouWQ

I hope that link works..

Its just different faces on the same e36 m3 sandwich. When will we figure that out?

tuna55 wrote: Aww well, who cares. Neither parts has done anything but crap for the past, oh, I dunno, 100 years.

FDA. That was a damn good idea way back in the day.

fast_eddie_72 wrote:

MrJoshua wrote: Forcing people to buy a product takes away the need for the people selling the product to compete on price.

I know everyone says this to make a point, but it's not really... wait. Sorry, I thought someone was listening. (edit) wait- what? "Forcing" people to buy something (which no one is doing) will take away competition? How so? Only if there's a monopoly. If a E36 M3 ton of peopel have to buy something and I'm in a position to sell it I'm damn well going to try to get as much share of that action as I can. To do that I'm going to have to provide the best product.

OK-we never really HAVE to do anything. I get it. If you stick a gun to my head and tell me to buy insurance, I have a choice to buy insurance or get shot. I most likely would chose purchasing insurance instead of getting shot even though you did not "force" me to do so. So lets just replace "Force" in all my above posts with "presenting people with a choice in which their is only one logical action". You don't get to dismiss the government giving me no logical choice but to buy health insurance because you want to argue the definition of force. I was listening, but you were making a silly argument so I chose to ignore it.

tuna55 wrote: And what policies has Obama put forth that haven't gotten passed Mr Cone?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's not the stuff he didn't get passed that got him in trouble! He got a LOT passed and it was BIG. I'm a long time Democrat and have tried to hang with the guy, but damn, that's a lotta bread we're spending and we're already in the hole pretty deep. I was doing okay 'till they started talking about another "stimulus" package. Oh man. I dunno about that.

MrJoshua wrote: OK-we never really HAVE to do anything. I get it. If you stick a gun to my head and tell me to buy insurance, I have a choice to buy insurance or get shot.

Well, I'll let it go after this, but I don't agree with you here. There are things you HAVE to do by law. You have to pay taxes, for instance. If you don't, you're going to end up in jail. You do NOT have to buy health insruance. If you don't buy it, there will be consequences, but it is not illegal.

You're clearly pretty fired up about the health care thing and I get that. I got pretty worked up about the War in Iraq and I'm sure there were plenty of rational issues that I didn't care to hear and painted them to be even more absurd than they were.

I think the whole "solution" they came up with for health care is kind of silly too. We should have just gone to single payer and been done with it. But it became clear early on that the Republicans weren't going to let that happen. They did... something. I think it's better than what we had before. But I'm not sure. So I'm not defending the thing outright. But I do know it's not nearly as tragic as it's being made out to be by the right wingers. And no, you do not have to buy anything.

Oh I ready how long is it going to take and thought we were talking about the berkeleying "service" at Taco Bell.

In reply to fast_eddie_72:

Your definition of "have to" is a choice as well. Do it or get put in jail. I chose financial harm as good enough reason for the "have to" designation.

I think the health care bill just ended up as watered down mess that caters to everyone but the consumer. I think Americans were voting with their wallets by choosing not to buy into overpriced health insurance and health care and the health care and health insurance industry freaked out. The then prodded the govt who responded by saying-uh oh-buy it or else! My really off the wall thought is that the system was actually fixing itself and gov't meddling is just going to make it worse.

fast_eddie_72 wrote:

MrJoshua wrote: OK-we never really HAVE to do anything. I get it. If you stick a gun to my head and tell me to buy insurance, I have a choice to buy insurance or get shot.

Well, I'll let it go after this, but I don't agree with you here. There are things you HAVE to do by law. You have to pay taxes, for instance. If you don't, you're going to end up in jail. You do NOT have to buy health insruance. If you don't buy it, there will be consequences, but it is not illegal. You're clearly pretty fired up about the health care thing and I get that. I got pretty worked up about the War in Iraq and I'm sure there were plenty of rational issues that I didn't care to hear and painted them to be even more absurd than they were. I think the whole "solution" they came up with for health care is kind of silly too. We should have just gone to single payer and been done with it. But it became clear early on that the Republicans weren't going to let that happen. They did... something. I *think* it's better than what we had before. But I'm not sure. So I'm not defending the thing outright. But I do know it's not nearly as tragic as it's being made out to be by the right wingers. And no, you do not have to buy anything.

A very good summary. It does suck to be the party that is E36 M3 on constantly. Both parties have spent plenty of time in the toilet. Sad thing is that both of the parties have came up with good bills to solve most of our issues. Problem is that their friends and colleagues (both sides) spend so much time marking it up with red ink that it turns to crap.

The same bill that would end world hunger at no cost to the taxpayers also opens bald eagles/pandas/baby seals to unlimited hunting, allows nuclear waste to be stored under grade school campuses, and funds a $1M museum about things found in couch cushions. Nice job politicians, you made on of the most endeared forms of gov't (for the people, by the people) become a useless laughing stock.

Wow, considering the vitriol that was spewn when Obama was elected, and still flows, it's pretty funny how sensitive you critics of him are.

Sad.

But funny.

alfadriver wrote: Wow, considering the vitriol that was spewn when Obama was elected, and still flows, it's pretty funny how sensitive you critics of him are. Sad. But funny.

Don't worry Oklahoma has protected us from stonings and beheadings that Obama( the non us citizen secret muslim) wants to push in a super secret muslim agenda.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/11/02/oklahoma-voters-ban-judges-using-islamic-law/

Well, Cross that state off of the "sane people live here list" but hey, They sure are FAT http://calorielab.com/news/2010/06/28/fattest-states-2010/

ignorant wrote: Don't worry Oklahoma has protected us from stonings and beheadings that Obama( the non us citizen secret muslim) wants to push in a super secret muslim agenda. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/11/02/oklahoma-voters-ban-judges-using-islamic-law/ Well, Cross that state off of the "sane people live here list" but hey, They sure are FAT http://calorielab.com/news/2010/06/28/fattest-states-2010/

Because a persons weight matters in this discussion... how?

mtn wrote:

ignorant wrote: Don't worry Oklahoma has protected us from stonings and beheadings that Obama( the non us citizen secret muslim) wants to push in a super secret muslim agenda. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/11/02/oklahoma-voters-ban-judges-using-islamic-law/ Well, Cross that state off of the "sane people live here list" but hey, They sure are FAT http://calorielab.com/news/2010/06/28/fattest-states-2010/

Because a persons weight matters in this discussion... how?

Cause I hate fat people. Them and the furries.

mad_machine wrote: the only thing I am thankful for.. the residents of Deleware could see an idiot when have one and did not vote O'Donnel in

Yeah, that was kind of funny to watch on the national level. We all knew she was an idiot and there was no danger of her actually taking the seat, but it sure was fun to see the Republican machine fatasses run scared for a little.

Too bad there's now a Democrat machine fatass sitting in it. Some "Change", yeah thanks, can I see the deed to that bridge?

OK, I got excercised there, but boy it pisses me off to see the self-righteous Obama apologism coming from the same mouths that would have cheerfully spit a lugie on Bush II if they ever got close enough. You're free to run down Politician A all you want, but then don't get your panties in a wad when somebody runs down your favorite Politician B. that's all I'm sayin'.