Discuss.
Discuss.
Meanwhile, other studies show that a glass of wine a day is actually a health benefit.
That seems agenda-driven, but of course, I didn't read the study, just the linked article.
Duke said:Meanwhile, other studies show that a glass of wine a day is actually a health benefit.
That seems agenda-driven, but of course, I didn't read the study, just the linked article.
AFAIK all the evidence so far says that no amount of alcohol is good and any amount of alcohol will do some kind of damage, and anything that tells you otherwise is industry-funded junk science...just ran across this video on the topic the other day (recommend playing at 1.5x speed, also some bad language in audio):
Something will kill ya. No sense not having a few vices.
In reply to 93gsxturbo :
I believe it was Mark Twain who held forth that you should maintain some number of vices so that you've got something to quit when your health requires you "throw something overboard to lighten the load."
I don't drink but often forget my mask around the nitro fumes. We all have something.
Everything in moderation even moderation.
I don't drink period in my day to day life. the two times a year I am on vacation and have zero responsibilities and I can go nuts. Same thing with red meat. Don't eat it except a two-three times a year. When I do its a 50oz tomahawk covered in butter with cheesecake.
Media is really really really bad at reporting scientific findings. Because usually scientific findings are really vague, boring, uncertain, etc., and this does not make for an interesting read.
What little is reported leaves me with the sense of quite a few very obvious questions unanswered.
So... common sense...
Alcohol is toxic. However it's the dose that makes the poison. "No amount of alcohol is safe," is patently b.s. Eat a piece of fruit, and you will consume alcohol. There are lots of alcohols that occur very widely in proportions that will have no discernable effect on you.
So pretty obviously, there is *some* amount of alcohol consumption that is perfectly healthy. There is also some amount of alcohol consumption that is clearly unhealthy.
What isn't clear is where that line is, and what the gradient of "sort of harmful" looks like. There are way too many factors that would need to be controlled for and studied over long periods of time.
Sensational headlines are sensational. I don't think we actually know anything new that we didn't know already.
In reply to Beer Baron :
One should point out, too, that the concept of "no alcohol is safe" has been debunked by centuries of our ancestors who lived on beer, since direct water was commonly dangerous. And that does include the children.
Also, "the safe level of alcohol consumption has not been determined" != "no level of alcohol consumption is safe".
alfadriver said:since direct water was commonly dangerous.
"I never drink water as it rusts pipes and fish make love in it" - W.C. Fields
To Baron's good point...
It would be completely unethical to randomly assign people to treatment and control groups "booze vs no booze" not to mention the logistical issues and waiting time required for a valid longitudinal study.
Studies such as these are almost always based on correlational analysis which is not scientifically valid.
I bet heavy drinkers get lung cancer much more often than the general population does...there's no reason to believe it's the alcohol, much more likely it's just that heavy drinkers are more likely to be smokers, etc., etc., etc.
Duke said:Also, "the safe level of alcohol consumption has not been determined" != "no level of alcohol consumption is safe".
This. There is a level that is practically safe enough (at least low enough to get lost in the background noise) even if technically doing some miniscule level of damage, like eating a fruit. Similarly, almonds contain traces of cyanide and chemicals that metabolize into cyanide but you'll struggle to get anywhere close to effectively poisoning yourself by eating almonds. We can be pretty sure nobody is meaningfully harming their health by having a couple of beers on the weekends.
We can't use our ancestors as examples though because in the times when beer was preferred for safety, people rarely lived to what we would now consider old age for a variety of reasons. It's quite possible that those beer-heavy diets were relatively dangerous by today's standards.
I'll just once again throw out my desire for a really good lager that is less than 3% ABV, and somewhat affordable. Right now it seems to be Amstel Light is the best compromise of drinkable, low alcohol, and affordable. Pretty low bar to clear, I'd think, and I'm sure that there are dozens of people like me.
As I told the Doc last time when he suggested I subtract one beer a day from the agenda: "Doctors are full of advice on ways to live longer, but its always at the expense of reasons to live".
Plus he is a young Irish dude, but I was NOT going to go there.
Pete
NOHOME said:As I told the Doc last time when he suggested I subtract one beer a day from the agenda: "Doctors are full of advice on ways to live longer, but its always at the expense of reasons to live".
Plus he is a young Irish dude, but I was NOT going to go there.
Pete
I wonder how many times people have brought this sketch up with your doc? (nsfw language)
Phuck the science. Phuck the media.
We all DIE!!!
I wasn't planning to live forever anyhow.
I don't drink alcohol, yet I'm willing to sit in the passenger seat of a person I don't know in a car I don't know and ride around a race track.
I think I'd be less at risk if I quit doing that and started a moonshine habit.
This doesn't affect me, I'm not Canadian.
Some strong language.
In addition to the safe amount of alcohol, the timespan it's consumed in matters a lot too.
7 drinks a week is very different if you consume them all in one night, vs if you have one every day.
I suspect that even over the course of a day matters. If you pound three shots of liquor back to back, I imagine that's very different than drinking that amount of beer gradually over the course of 8 hours.
(Trying to explain how much I drink to a Dr. is weird. I don't drink like a regular person.)
In reply to Beer Baron :
I had that problem when I worked at the brewery.
"How often do you drink"
"Just about every day"
.........had to REALLY break that one down before I was sent to rehab.
In reply to sleepyhead the buffalo :
That was funny!
In reply to Mndsm :
I OWNED a brewery. So imagine that dilemma at the Quack's "Its my job?"
During my furlough (most of 2020) I did the drink too much thing. I had nowhere to go, and all I was doing during the day was renovating my house. I would drink a bit too much for my comfort every evening.
I'm tapering off, but not where I want to be yet. I have one strong whiskey drink or a couple beers every night before bed. My body got so used to having the booze that I started relying on it to sleep. Not healthy, but I'm almost there.
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