I've been hankering for a boat for years now and all the boat threads here have me trolling Craigslist and marketplace for a boat instead if yet another car. I lost out on a 17' Campion last week but this morning I found a 1985 Sea Ray Seville Bow Rider for cheap cheap that had water in the oil. It's a small block Ford, how hard can it be? What else do I need to look for?
A winning lottery ticket.
The most expensive boat you can buy is a cheap one.
Ask me how I know...
How's the hull? Has it been stored outside? Covered?
Get in it and walk the floor. Soft spots indicate rot.
Cheap boats are pretty easy to find. Choose carefully.
In reply to Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) :
I own an IMS bearing Porsche, a oil consuming B8 A4, and an EcoBoost Flex. I'm already a glutton for cheap stuff with terrible flaws that will bankrupt me.
1988RedT2 said:How's the hull? Has it been stored outside? Covered?
Get in it and walk the floor. Soft spots indicate rot.
Cheap boats are pretty easy to find. Choose carefully.
Hull looks fantastic, stored outdoors but covered. Current registration so it's been a runner. There is a soft spot on the floor where the back to back chairs used to be.
I have a cheap boat.
My neighbour owns a boat and if I want to go boating, I buy him a case of beer.
Best boat ever.
Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:I own an IMS bearing Porsche, a oil consuming B8 A4, and an EcoBoost Flex. I'm already a glutton for cheap stuff with terrible flaws that will bankrupt me.
All of those can explode and catch fire, but at least they won't sink, lol.
We began our boating adventures three years ago with mixed results--one boat is mostly ok, the other a leaky money pit. Both have cost us a lot more than we assumed going in.
My advice is: rent/borrow a boat the few times a year you want to go boating. It's less convenient but you'll come out ahead in the long run, believe me. If you feel you *have* to get your own boat, get something as small and simple as will reasonably meet your needs. Complexity gets expensive very quick.
If it floats, berks, or flies, it's cheaper to rent than buy.
Boat - A hole in the water into which you pour money.
Its the reason I have a kayak & canoe for fishing and boating.
Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) :
I own an IMS bearing Porsche, a oil consuming B8 A4, and an EcoBoost Flex. I'm already a glutton for cheap stuff with terrible flaws that will bankrupt me.
I get it. Just be aware that I switched to owning race cars to save money.
nderwater said:Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:I own an IMS bearing Porsche, a oil consuming B8 A4, and an EcoBoost Flex. I'm already a glutton for cheap stuff with terrible flaws that will bankrupt me.
All of those can explode and catch fire, but at least they won't sink, lol.
We began our boating adventures three years ago with mixed results--one boat is mostly ok, the other a leaky money pit. Both have cost us a lot more than we assumed going in.
My advice is: rent/borrow a boat the few times a year you want to go boating. It's less convenient but you'll come out ahead in the long run, believe me. If you feel you *have* to get your own boat, get something as small and simple as will reasonably meet your needs. Complexity gets expensive very quick.
I'm retired from the Coast Guard and I was stationed up here, so I know the waterways and I have felt the siren song of the sea to return to the water. Also, we have four kids ages 5 to 8 and taking them tubing and to secluded islands to swim in this post-COVID world seem like a good idea. I should mention that I literally live on a river, it's like a 10 minute walk from the front door. It connects to the Columbia.
In reply to Javelin (Forum Supporter) :
Searay is one of the better brands. I've owned mine since I ordered it new in the fall of 1978.
The motor could simply have a blown head gasket which is no big deal. Check to make sure the head is still flat.
But it's a Ford. Junkyards are filled with them. A well used boat freshwater Boat might get 2 or 3000 miles a year on it!!!
I've rebuilt 60-70 year old motors that are still standard bore.
Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:1988RedT2 said:How's the hull? Has it been stored outside? Covered?
Get in it and walk the floor. Soft spots indicate rot.
Cheap boats are pretty easy to find. Choose carefully.
Hull looks fantastic, stored outdoors but covered. Current registration so it's been a runner. There is a soft spot on the floor where the back to back chairs used to be.
Current is encouraging. Fix the engine, you might be good. For a while.
Check this?:
https://www.boatus.com/buyer/guide/checklist.asp
Engines you understand, but those that are rawwater cooled have different needs from their car based cousins. Waterpumps are a wear item and should be inspected yearly and possibly replaced at the same time as cheap insurance. The exhaust manifolds are water jacketed and can rust through, flooding the cylinders, which is probably how that seville got water in the oil.
All boats leak to some extent. It's all about managing the water flow into the boat rather than trying to keep it completely out. Even if the hull has no ports, no thruhulls, and no shaft or outdrives, water is still going to get in through condensation. You cannot keep it out. Remember that and embrace it.
Wiring is an issue that drives me crazy on boats. Too many boaters do not even do a half arsed job with wiring. I cringe whenever I see radios just screwed into a cabinent and the wiring left visible, or switches hanging from mounts when 10 more minutes would have left things nice, neat, and tidy. I am sure most of the wiring is not with tinned marine grade wiring too. Personally wiring would never be a negative for me in buying, I always plan on ripping it all out and getting stuck into doing a neat and clean job of it. your Miliage my vary on the subject.
nderwater said:Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:I own an IMS bearing Porsche, a oil consuming B8 A4, and an EcoBoost Flex. I'm already a glutton for cheap stuff with terrible flaws that will bankrupt me.
All of those can explode and catch fire, but at least they won't sink, lol.
We began our boating adventures three years ago with mixed results--one boat is mostly ok, the other a leaky money pit. Both have cost us a lot more than we assumed going in.
My advice is: rent/borrow a boat the few times a year you want to go boating. It's less convenient but you'll come out ahead in the long run, believe me. If you feel you *have* to get your own boat, get something as small and simple as will reasonably meet your needs. Complexity gets expensive very quick.
How do you explain my boat? I ordered it new in the fall of 1978. I live on the lake and keep the boat at my dock 100 feet from my front window. I walk down the sidewalk out on the dock toss the lines off and go boating any time the mood strikes
An average year I spend $500 having other people work on my boat. It's 28 feet sleeps 6 carries 20+ has a head, a galley, 105 gallon gas tank and 80 gallon fresh water tank. and all the rest of that stuff.
$500 a year!
mad_machine (Forum Supporter) said:Engines you understand, but those that are rawwater cooled have different needs from their car based cousins. Waterpumps are a wear item and should be inspected yearly and possibly replaced at the same time as cheap insurance. The exhaust manifolds are water jacketed and can rust through, flooding the cylinders, which is probably how that seville got water in the oil.
All boats leak to some extent. It's all about managing the water flow into the boat rather than trying to keep it completely out. Even if the hull has no ports, no thruhulls, and no shaft or outdrives, water is still going to get in through condensation. You cannot keep it out. Remember that and embrace it.
Wiring is an issue that drives me crazy on boats. Too many boaters do not even do a half arsed job with wiring. I cringe whenever I see radios just screwed into a cabinent and the wiring left visible, or switches hanging from mounts when 10 more minutes would have left things nice, neat, and tidy. I am sure most of the wiring is not with tinned marine grade wiring too. Personally wiring would never be a negative for me in buying, I always plan on ripping it all out and getting stuck into doing a neat and clean job of it. your Miliage my vary on the subject.
Hmmmm we differ greatly. My wiring is original. Never messed with except I installed a radio back in 1979 ( still works) my bilge pump keeps the bilge dry. The water pump is the original. I did crack an exhaust manifold but bought a used one for $50. I did replace the belt sometime 20+ years ago.
My interior is solid teak. All original. Upholstery could use a little freshening. Maybe this winter. The original gymble bearing is starting to make noise so probably will be replaced this winter.
On average it costs me $500 a year to have others maintain it for me.
frenchyd said:How do you explain my boat? I ordered it new in the fall of 1978. I live on the lake and keep the boat at my dock 100 feet from my front window. I walk down the sidewalk out on the dock toss the lines off and go boating any time the mood strikes
An average year I spend $500 having other people work on my boat. It's 28 feet sleeps 6 carries 20+ has a head, a galley, 105 gallon gas tank and 80 gallon fresh water tank. and all the rest of that stuff.
$500 a year!
Factor in the time-value of whatever equity you have in that boat, and you're looking at $500 to $5000, which is plenty to rent a boat a couple times a year (which is a normal amount for someone who doesn't live on or extremely close to a lake) to decide if its really worth it.
Living on the lake, I'd probably get one too, and they can be pretty reasonable. But if you don't live on a lake and you need to trailer one around and whatnot, they are a gigantic pain in the ass.
nderwater said:
If you feel you *have* to get your own boat, get something as small and simple as will reasonably meet your needs. Complexity gets expensive very quick.
I agree with this.
What do you want to do with the boat? Are you going to be fishing, skiing/tubing? Randomly going out and drinking while pretending to do these things?
Salt water Vs Fresh changes the boat a bit as well.
In reply to ProDarwin :
I can see that some might feel that way. Trailer boats and all that entails might be a royal pain if it's just sometime you sorta want. Or might be fun once in a while.
But if you really want a boat and boating it can be exciting and a great amount of pleasure. You don't need a mega expensive house on the water either. A trailered boat is the sort of modest budget thing people of average means can compromise on.
They don't have to be a money pit either. I've seen sailboats owned by a moderately handy guy cost under $100 a year to maintain. And a simple C scow last decades. While all the kids learned how to sail. There is a little zephyr of wind right now I could take my Hobie Cat out in and slowly sail around. If the wind dies I'll just wait there is always a morning and evening breeze to get me home.
Ive seem nice big cruisers chopped up with a chain saw because the used value didn't justify keeping them. Not because they were worn out or junk.
Every marina has to regularly dispose of boats they can't sell because the owners abandoned them. Divorce, illness, loss of job, moved, loss of spouse, all are reasons Some good boats get chopped up and dumpstered. No they aren't marketed, ya gotta track down the bank, credit union, insurance company, etc that holds the tittle.
frenchyd said:How do you explain my boat? ...I live on the lake and keep the boat at my dock 100 feet from my front window. I walk down the sidewalk out on the dock toss the lines off and go boating any time the mood strikes
An average year I spend $500 having other people work on my boat... $500 a year!
Living on a lake and having your own dock means that a lot of our expenses are subsidized into what you paid through your mortgage and taxes. For two covered boat slips, trailer storage, and services we pay nearly $8,000 a year in marina fees. Maintenance, insurance, taxes, fuel--everything else snowballs from there.
frenchyd said:In reply to Javelin (Forum Supporter) :
Searay is one of the better brands.
One of the more popular brands, certainly. I wouldnt say "better". Chris craft, formula, albemarle, grady white, boston whaler, fleming, sabre, a few others, i would say sure.
Sea Ray is to a chevy cobalt as Formula is to a GTI. They compete in the same segment, and they sell a lot more of the former, but they're not better.
And your anecdotal experience of $500 maintenance does not negate the entire rest of the marine industry.
For my part, i can't believe how expensive "cheap" boats have gotten. From looking on craigslist and FB marketplace, people are asking thousands of dollars for stuff that my opening negotiating position would be, "i will drag it out of your yard for free, if you want to haggle we can negotiate how much you pay me to haul this rotted hulk off"
Javelin, if it was me looking, beyond the already mentioned advice, i would check freeze plugs/block cracking, and turn the battery switch on and check everything (lights, bilge pumps, instruments, radios, etc). Try to raise and lower the outdrive (assuming i/o). What condition are any through-hull fittings in? Are you close enough to the pacific that you have to worry about salt water use?
Boats
Are
Not
Expensive.
Marinas are expensive. DIY boat fixing is super simple and no more expensive than doing the same repairs on your Miata.
The name of the hull does mean a lot. Just like with RVs, there are boats that are designed for the people who go boating three weekends a year, and there are boats that are designed for a quasi-professional fisherman who is on the water every day for 8 hours. Bayliner is an example of the "looks pretty on labor day, but won't hold up long term."
Some that are basic floating Yugos made with hopes and glue; Bayliner, Maxxum. Some that are fine, middle-of-the-road Chevys; Sea Ray, Tracker, Nitro, Ebbtide, most of the common brands. Some that are the well-done W124s of the water; Wellcraft, Grady White, Baja, Checkmate, Carolina Skiff.
My last one was a 19' Baja. Bought it as a complete basket case for $1100. The floor stringers were so rotted they had grass growing out of them. I stripped it down to a completely bare hull, including taking out the engine, gimbal, and outdrive. It was truly a bare hull. Three weeks later it was on the water for under $3500 total investment. Powered with a 350 I built with off-the shelf automotive parts, it would hit 65mph, and it would do it with supreme comfort and catch everyone's eye. Nice looking boat, great performance. My current one is an 18' Ebbtide bought as a ready-for-the-water boat for $3500, and I think the aluminum I-beam trailer was worth more than half of that. I put $130 in parts into it and four years later it still fires up every time I hit the key. Still a solid boat, but with the 3.0L 4 cylinder, it's no performer. I also notice it is not quite as brick-like as my Baja. The Baja felt like it was carved from one rigid chunk of fiberglass.
The Sea Ray you found might be a good bet. The Ford in there is nothing special. Snag a random longblock replacement and some gaskets and swap your marine pieces on to it. What brand/type of outdrive is it? The chances that the Ford is a reverse rotation is extremely slim, but worth checking. By the 80s, the only thing reverse rotation was full inboard ski boats, and even they started getting rare by then. The secret is finding the boat that only has DIY things wrong with it.
Solid floors. Look for soft spots. They will get soft. Boat flooring is usually marine plywood with a layer of glass and epoxy. They will eventually get water in the wood and rot. Doing a new floor yourself isn't the end of the world. Having someone do it will cost a LOT of money.
Good vinyl. It doesn't matter if you're re-upholstering boat cushions or a LaZboy recliner, it's not cheap and sometimes not easy to DIY. Flat cushions in a bowrider are easy. Captain's chairs, not so much.
No cracking in the gelcoat. Look closely. Old gelcoat will eventually give in to UV and get hairline cracks. Once that starts you're looking at the possibility of re-gelcoating before water can seep through to the core and rot it. Gel-coating is another one that isn't easy to DIY and expensive to have done. In a pinch, a good epoxy paint will solve the issue.
Good body work. I'm talking like the gauge pods, the windshield frames, and anything unique to that boat. Being that old, you can't just order a new gauge pod, you have to use what it has or fab your own if it's broken. 40 years of someone's knee hitting the dash might give you trouble. Don't worry about gauges. They're the same protocols as automotive gauges so they're cheap and easy to replace.
Ask when the last time it had a shift cable and bellows kit. The outdrive connects to the boat with a rubber bellows. You get about 10 years out of one until it tears and leaks water (and damages the upper bearing if you don't fix it right away). The kits are $150 and you can DIY, but a Marina will charge $1500... because marina.
If you bought an old boat and it needed all of the above, you could spend a few weeks and DIY it all for $500, or you could take it to a marina and they would charge $5000-6000. That's why people think they're expensive.
Look for a Seloc manual. They are the Haynes Repair manual of the marine world. Get one for whatever engine/outdrive/outboard you end up with. Nothing about working on the mechanicals of a boat is any harder than working on a Caprice or a Jetta. In fact, it's often easier because things aren't shoehorned into a tiny compartment flanked by suspensions and body work.
Flynlow (FS) said:frenchyd said:In reply to Javelin (Forum Supporter) :
Searay is one of the better brands.
One of the more popular brands, certainly. I wouldnt say "better". Chris craft, formula, albemarle, grady white, boston whaler, fleming, sabre, a few others, i would say sure.
Sea Ray is to a chevy cobalt as Formula is to a GTI. They compete in the same segment, and they sell a lot more of the former, but they're not better.
And your anecdotal experience of $500 maintenance does not negate the entire rest of the marine industry.
For my part, i can't believe how expensive "cheap" boats have gotten. From looking on craigslist and FB marketplace, people are asking thousands of dollars for stuff that my opening negotiating position would be, "i will drag it out of your yard for free, if you want to haggle we can negotiate how much you pay me to haul this rotted hulk off"
The marinas around here have zero used inventory. COVID hit and everyone who always wanted a boat made it a priority. Poof.
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
Makes sense. I look forward to buying a lightly used cast off in a year or two when it hits the fan.
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