If I see another thread about electric/hybrid cars, I'm going to scream!

yamaha wrote: Just like during the birth of the automobile, technology still hasn't allowed the all electric car to be practical for the masses. I doubt they will be until we figure out fusion power.

Huh? The problem is battery energy density, not the source. Electric cars are energy-source-agnostic, and unless you're charging them on 100% dirty coal or close to it, they're still cleaner.

Batteries that match the energy density of gasoline aren't far off, and once they're here the batteries that surpass it will be coming.

yamaha wrote: In reply to Beer Baron: Perhaps we should invest in the "Synthetic fuels" idea that the Nazi's had during WW2......

South Africa is doing the same thing today, making their gas from coal. So in some places that's already the most economical way to get gasoline.

Large aircraft will need to burn liquid fuels for a long time to come too.

HappyAndy wrote: OK then, how about ELECTRIC MOTORCYCLES!. They are, in fact, cycles with motors

Why the heck did you have to go and do that?! Now I'm contemplating an electric sport bike for my commute.

I haz a Chebby Big Block. Two, actually.

In reply to GameboyRMH:

You missed the point of what I was saying completely. To truly make the electric car completely practical for the masses, it will need to never be charged. Hence the "Nuclear Fusion" comment. As in, a tiny fusion reactor powering them.

You're thinking too much.

yamaha wrote: In reply to GameboyRMH: You missed the point of what I was saying completely. To truly make the electric car completely practical for the masses, it will need to never be charged. Hence the "Nuclear Fusion" comment. As in, a tiny fusion reactor powering them. You're thinking too much.

That doesn't even make sense. Why would an electric car need to be fueled for life to be as practical as a vehicle that needs filled up every week or more at a remote site?

What if the battery could be charged as quickly as it takes to fill a tank of gas? http://mashable.com/2014/04/08/30-second-battery-charger/

nderwater wrote: What if the battery could be charged as quickly as it takes to fill a tank of gas? http://mashable.com/2014/04/08/30-second-battery-charger/

This sort of thing is what we need an effective method for. The big issue I've heard with super-fast charging is that it tends to produce a lot of excess heat.

Since electro-chemical storage mediums are not used up when they discharge, that means you would need to remove them in order to replace them with a charged product. This could mean standardizing batteries that can easily and quickly be swapped out, but that seems a big unlikely.

One good solution I've heard is that folks in MIT developed semi-solid compound that will store an electrical charge. You wouldn't need a standardized form-factor or large access hatches for batteries, just pump out the old, discharged slurry, and pump in the charged one. http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2011/flow-batteries-0606

To me the most logical solution is simply low-cost, low power (speed) chargers placed everywhere. If you could charge @ work as well as @ home, even at a lower rate, you'd be much more inclined to deal with the mileage limitations of an EV.

Some companies are making these things for ~$1000. Adding them to 10 or 20 parking spaces at a larger company isn't expensive, and with modern communications all billing could be via wifi and the system essentially service-free.

In reply to ProDarwin: All you really need at work is some 110 outlets. Most cars will accumulate 40 miles of charge over a work day.

That's pretty much my thought... the only reason for the chargers is to keep track of usage/bill the owners vs. just 110v outlets. They could still be 110 and thus very easy to run lines for/install/etc. Many people work more like 9 hours anyway. So now the Leaf has an effective range of 50-60 miles each way, making it more enticing to owners that want to save on gas due to a long commute, but can't drive an EV... due to a long commute.

I actually really wouldn't mind if Toyota brought back the MR2 and stuck a Prius drivetrain in the back... retuned/recalibrated for increased power output/higher top speed at the expense of some engine-off range of course, but still. I know it sounds blastphemous, but... as an urban runabout that can also hold its own in the twisties or an autocross (especially an autocross, now that I think about it...), the combination would likely do better than some perhaps give it credit for. EVs have insane torque basically everywhere and the Prius drivetrain is actually fairly inspired in how the hybrid system is implemented, they just chose to stick it in an incredibly dull car with no sporting pretensions (other than that weird GT300-class JGTC car they ran a year or two ago)

Slyp_Dawg wrote: I actually really wouldn't mind if Toyota brought back the MR2 and stuck a Prius drivetrain in the back... retuned/recalibrated for increased power output/higher top speed at the expense of some engine-off range of course, but still. I know it sounds blastphemous, but... as an urban runabout that can also hold its own in the twisties or an autocross (especially an autocross, now that I think about it...), the combination would likely do better than some perhaps give it credit for. EVs have insane torque basically everywhere and the Prius drivetrain is actually fairly inspired in how the hybrid system is implemented, they just chose to stick it in an incredibly dull car with no sporting pretensions (other than that weird GT300-class JGTC car they ran a year or two ago)

I've seen a build thread on the internets somewhere where someone did put a prius motor in an MR2. Not sure if the rest of the hybrid system was intact or not.

FWIW, to change from dull/efficient, to more sporty, you can swap the top-end parts with a Echo/xA/xB/Yaris/etc. The engine in the 1g/2g Prius is the same as those cars, except in runs the Atkinson cycle, making ~70hp instead of ~105.

I drove my Leaf today again back and forth to drop off Tunakid #2, will go soon to see Tunakid #3s speech therapist, and will return to school to pickup #2 along with a grocery run. All in one day. I love my EV, should I start a thread about it?

Get out of my thread you EV-loving hippies!

In reply to dculberson:

Electrics lack range, solution is unlimited range.

1988RedT2 wrote: Does anybody really think these vehicles can save the world?

No. We have laws preventing anything saving the world. The only way to save it is to repeal the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.

yamaha wrote: In reply to dculberson: Electrics lack range, solution is unlimited range.

Gasoline cars lack range too, by that standard.

As noted above, instead of the MR2 w/ Prius engine, what if the '90's CRX was offered with a hybrid engine?
Not the exact '90's CRX but a stylized re-interpretation.

Personally, I am enjoying the GRM view of hybrid.
That is to say, now that the cars have a track record I am intrigued by that fact that maint costs are so low.

At new, retail, the hybrids are a tougher argument since the is an upcharge for a hybrid car vs the similar non-hybrid. But, as the cars age, the more similar difference in retails on used models takes away some of that issue.
I also feared that high-tech repairs only meant high-priced, dealer only serviceable items. This seems to be less of a reality than I perceived.

In reply to dculberson:

Yes, but I can be in and out of a gas station withing 2-3 minutes. 30 seconds if I'm on the bike.

Until they figure ALOT more out than they have already, EV's are impractical for anything other than urban short commutes.

Tesla hot-swap stations are faster than a gasoline fill-up. They're coming.

Saving the world one 2-second penalty at a time.

yamaha wrote: In reply to dculberson: Yes, but I can be in and out of a gas station withing 2-3 minutes. 30 seconds if I'm on the bike. Until they figure ALOT more out than they have already, EV's are impractical for anything other than urban short commutes.

15 miles every day minimum one way and not in an urban center, I'd say they are more useful than that.

Mike wrote: Statistics on plug in car buyers tends to show they're not buying them for the environment. They're fun to drive in a way traditional hybrids usually aren't. Most buyers want to be early adopters. IIRC, environment came in third.

Yup. I bought my Volt because 1) it has the same monthly payment as my Mustang did, but I have zero fuel bills. And 2) it's actually fun and comfortable to drive, with loads of silent torque at idle, and a low CG for decent handling (as much as low rolling resistance tires can handle, at least). And finally 3) I do think that we should be using electricity to commute in and leave gas for the weekend toys.