If someone says they are struggling with weed - believe them

Appleseed said:

mtn said:

aircooled said:

carguy123 said:

I have seen first hand the effects of prolonged pot usage, it is worse than alcoholism. 

Here is my anecdote:  A roommate with a HUGE pot habit.  Used it many times a day.  Held a full time job an the pot helped him with a nervous / shaking issue.  Other roommate was a HUGE alcoholic (took about a case of beer to get drunk).  He struggled heavily keeping himself working, tried to kill himself a few times, he eventually succeeded. 

It isn't funny, but it always makes me laugh in a dark way. The worst thing that can happen with alcohol, not even alcoholism, is that you die from alcohol poisoning. Worst thing that can happen from alcoholism is that you die from liver failure/liver disease/liver cancer/pancreatic cancer/colon cancer/etc. 

 

Worst thing that can happen with pot? You get caught. 

Lung cancer. 

Psychosis. 

carguy123 said:

I have seen first hand the effects of prolonged pot usage, it is worse than alcoholism. 

No, it is not, for a number of reasons

to be clear, I did not post this thread to start a legalization debate.

I did want to point out that most of the information we hear about marijuana currently is coming from the mouths of marketers and lobbyists (and many people in this thread are very accurately responding with exactly the messages the marketers and lobbyists have designed)...

So take it for what it is.

"less bad than alcohol" /= not bad, or even "good"

SVreX said:

I have worked in a custom chemical plant. 

Not a chance I’m gonna use an unregulated inconsistent product that is so easy to put unknown additives in by growers with no accountability at all.

Does anyone actually know what they are toking?

Crazy.

 

I have worked on commercial sized medicinal pot farms. I will eat the discarded dirt at the end of the season before I ever take a pill from pfizer, merck, or Bayer. 

This whole "they're putting stuff in it" is bullE36 M3. Unless they're growing with miracle grow or nutrients that haven't been on the market for over a decade, it flushes out before harvest. If they are growing that way, they won't last because people don't want chemical tasting, poor burning garbage.  "Lacing" it after the fact is just a waste of hard drugs, and in almost 20 years of smoking, I've never seen any proof at all that that is anymore than old fear mongering from the 70s. The price of the drugs to lace it with would negate any profitably anyway so why bother if you'd be losing money?

And this isn't even getting into the testing required by reputable medicinal dispensaries. If, and it sure looks like this is the case, the recreational shops go through the same testing and verification, then there is less to worry about with pot than your cereal with round up in it or the pink slime in your McDonald's lunch burger. 

Let's not forget the whole reason why after 10,000 years of recorded historical use we decided to make marijuana illegal in the first place. Newspaper magnates using racism and fear tactics to hold onto the value of the forests they owned. Hemp, and it's cousin marijuana, create far more paper, rope, and oxygen than forests do by acre, which got in the way of profits. And hey, it came with the bonus of creating the lazy Mexican and crazy black stereotype. 

In all truth I'd rather see industrial hemp return than legalized marijuana because I see how America likes to monopolize and bastardize their vices, and that isn't a path for something so varied and natural. We don't need RJ Reynolds or Philip Morris destroying something that is such an important part of human history. 

But, yea, unaccountable growers putting mystery additives into weed is a much bigger deal than faceless conglomerates who value profits over patients releasing a new drug and setting aside hundreds of millions of dollars for the inevitable lawsuit when the side effects get revealed. 

I'm done with this thread now, but I'd be happy to answer anyone's questions privately. 

In reply to RevRico :

Dude, you’re 31. 20 years?

With all due respect, it’s hard to take someone seriously who claims the higher ground because he started smoking pot when he was 11. 

You are spilling out the exact rhetoric Robbie is talking about. 

Not that it matters the slightest bit, but I smoked for 13 years before you were born.   Completely worthless information. 

Robbie said:

"less bad than alcohol" /= not bad, or even "good"

That seems like a reasonable take on the issue to me. I'd say both sides have their marketing groups spreading FUD, and the truth (as usual) is somewhere in the middle.

I'm pro-legalization, not because I want to use it (tried it once and didn't like it), but because it's none of my business what people do with their lives, and it's putting people in jail for no good reason, using up police and court resources, etc. But you're not going to convince me that inhaling a burning plant into your lungs, be it tobacco, cannabis, or anything else, is somehow "healthy".

SVreX said:

In reply to RevRico :

Dude, you’re 31. 20 years?

With all due respect, it’s hard to take someone seriously who claims the higher ground because he started smoking pot when he was 11. 

You are spilling out the exact rhetoric Robbie is talking about. 

Not that it matters the slightest bit, but I smoked for 13 years before you were born.   Completely worthless information. 

Nearly 20 years... that could be 17 years, which would mean he's been smoking since 14. Believable. Especially as you indicated that you smoked when you were 13 (1987-13-1961=13)

Tom_Spangler said:

Robbie said:

"less bad than alcohol" /= not bad, or even "good"

That seems like a reasonable take on the issue to me. I'd say both sides have their marketing groups spreading FUD, and the truth (as usual) is somewhere in the middle.

I'm pro-legalization, not because I want to use it (tried it once and didn't like it), but because it's none of my business what people do with their lives, and it's putting people in jail for no good reason, using up police and court resources, etc. But you're not going to convince me that inhaling a burning plant into your lungs, be it tobacco, cannabis, or anything else, is somehow "healthy".

What about taking it as an edible? Or vaporizing it? Obviously there are tradeoffs for all of them (edibles are erratic, vaporizing has poor studies with likely participation bias as well as increased ammonia intake, etc.)

I don't think anyone is making the case that it is healthy, rather it is a safer alternative to opioid's, anti-depressents, epilipsy treatments, etc., and that recreationally at worst it is no more dangerous than tobacco or alcohol. 

In reply to mtn :

I’m not doubting he could have started young. I did. 

I saying he was probably not much of an expert on the subject during his “20 years of experience”. 

I am not claiming any expertise based on my stupid choices.

Tom_Spangler said:

Robbie said:

"less bad than alcohol" /= not bad, or even "good"

That seems like a reasonable take on the issue to me. I'd say both sides have their marketing groups spreading FUD, and the truth (as usual) is somewhere in the middle.

I'm pro-legalization, not because I want to use it (tried it once and didn't like it), but because it's none of my business what people do with their lives, and it's putting people in jail for no good reason, using up police and court resources, etc. But you're not going to convince me that inhaling a burning plant into your lungs, be it tobacco, cannabis, or anything else, is somehow "healthy".

I'm pro legalization as it brings hemp back into the normal usage market.  I've been around people who have smoked, and my observation is that they are far more calm and less nasty than bad drinker are.  But that means nothing.

But given how much better hemp is as a material than many other industrial product..  Added to the tiny fact that it, indeed, grows like a weed....  It's a great solution to replace the fabricated items with natural items that will eventually break down into forms that don't take hundreds of years to not be that harmful.  Let alone the idea that it diverts some of the need of other products to more effective use. 

That ignores the fact that it helped a friend of mine get through chemo.  

When enforcing the laws does more damage to society than what the laws are against, it's time to change the laws. 

Um, pot makes you stoopid, OK?  And it removes your ambition and drive to do anything.  I don't care what you do.  Make yourself more stoopid.  DON'T CARE.  Putting you in jail for it and creating a whole criminal sub-culture has done many times the damage that all illegal drugs have done.

An estimated 88,000 people (approximately 62,000 men and 26,000 women) die from alcohol-related causes annually, making alcohol the third leading preventable cause of death in the United States.

Alcohol facts and statistics

The rate of absolutely zero deaths from a marijuana overdose remained steady from last year, according to figures released this month by the Centers for Disease Control.

Marijuana overdose deaths

Every day, more than 115 people in the United States die after overdosing on opioids.

Opioid overdose deaths

Smoking is the leading cause of preventable death.

• Worldwide, tobacco use causes nearly 6 million deaths per year, and current trends show that tobacco use will cause more than 8 million deaths annually by 2030                                                                                                                       

tobacco related deaths

Not conjecture, just facts.   

SVreX said:

In reply to aircooled :

Right. 

Properly made stuff is always more expensive, and illegal stuff appealing. 

Witness Chinese knock-off auto parts. 

My chinese fuel pump still works after 2 years.  The other stuff? I’m not a fan of altering my mental state - I don’t drink because I don’t like being drunk.  Ohio passed medical stuff and I’m willing to try the low THC stuff or CBD oil to help some chronic work related pain.  I would have to know the source because I don’t need some ahole thinking it’s fun to lace it with a narcotic and killing me.  

In reply to Joe Gearin :

And every day 3500 people die in auto accidents. I guess we should stop driving. 

Robbie’s point was pot has some issues. That’s all. Alcohol comparisons are completely irrelevant. 

Joe Gearin said:

An estimated 88,000 people (approximately 62,000 men and 26,000 women) die from alcohol-related causes annually, making alcohol the third leading preventable cause of death in the United States.

Alcohol facts and statistics

 

The rate of absolutely zero deaths from a marijuana overdose remained steady from last year, according to figures released this month by the Centers for Disease Control.

Marijuana overdose deaths

 

Every day, more than 115 people in the United States die after overdosing on opioids.

Opioid overdose deaths

 

Smoking is the leading cause of preventable death.

• Worldwide, tobacco use causes nearly 6 million deaths per year, and current trends show that tobacco use will cause more than 8 million deaths annually by 2030                                                                                                                       

tobacco related deaths

 

 

Not conjecture, just facts.   

I note that there are zero marijuana OVERDOSE deaths... but conspicuously absent is information about marijuana related deaths.  There probably aren't many tobacco overdose deaths, either.

I am pro-legalization, but lets not pretend that smoking anything is not bad for your health.  Nor that being intoxicated with marijuana can't kill you in other ways than overdose.

Yes you can get addicted to weed in the same sense that you can get addicted to World of Warcraft. Not news to me.

I don't think anyone's arguing that weed is totally harmless, but locking people up over something objectively less harmful than cigs or alcohol while making research into a potentially very useful medicine extremely difficult and funding brutal cartels along the way isn't harmless either...

In reply to GameboyRMH :

Again, Robbie didn’t start a thread about legalization. And nobody here has suggested locking anyone up, nor advocates funding brutal cartels. 

This kind of silliness makes enemies out of friends. I would bet the vast majority of people who have posted in this thread are pro legalization.  I am. 

SVreX said:

In reply to Joe Gearin :

And every day 3500 people die in auto accidents. I guess we should stop driving. 

Robbie’s point was pot has some issues. That’s all. Alcohol comparisons are completely irrelevant. 

I brought that up, as many in this thread were comparing the threat from alcohol and marijuana, as being similar.  It's been medically proven that alcohol is a far more dangerous substance. 

I'm not saying marijuana use is harmless, or that you should operate heavy machinery while on it.   What I am saying is it's been demonized, to make people think it's a lot more harmful than it is.  Tobacco and Alcohol are legal and readily available, while being clearly more dangerous.  The fact that marijuana is still a schedule 1 drug is madness.    Again....I'm ambivalent about recreational weed.  Those who want to smoke already do---- it's not difficult to come by. 

My concern is all the false information out there demonizing CBD's and the medical benefits from MJ.  

Here's an example.......   My Mother was suffering from Rheumatioid Arthritis.  The meds made her very sick---(104 fever, rushed to the hospital)  Turns out the RA meds were making her worse, instead of better.  She asked her doctor about CBD's and medical pot.  The doctor agreed that this would be a good option for her.   If the Doc would have given her an opioid--- no sweat, she would have left with the drugs.   Instead, she had to fill out an 8-page form, describing the "evils" of MJ, and then wait for something like 6 weeks before being able to set up an appointment to get her meds.   It's madness, and is caused by fear-mongering politicians and pharma, making it harder for folks to get medication----even when it's legal.    

rant off

In reply to Joe Gearin :

You are spending a lot of energy trying to defend your position to people who agree with you, but then posting facts that are really questionable. It doesn’t help your position. 

I would suggest that it aids the demonization process.  By not defending your position in a balanced way, you look unbalanced.  That lends credence to the argument that pot is bad.  The arguments don’t be hold water.

In reply to SVreX :

Not sure were you are coming from with that one, as my sources were listed.  Feel free to PM me if you like.  I'm out.....

Joe Gearin said:

SVreX said:

In reply to Joe Gearin :

And every day 3500 people die in auto accidents. I guess we should stop driving. 

Robbie’s point was pot has some issues. That’s all. Alcohol comparisons are completely irrelevant. 

I brought that up, as many in this thread were comparing the threat from alcohol and marijuana, as being similar.  It's been medically proven that alcohol is a far more dangerous substance. 

I'm not saying marijuana use is harmless, or that you should operate heavy machinery while on it.   What I am saying is it's been demonized, to make people think it's a lot more harmful than it is.  Tobacco and Alcohol are legal and readily available, while being clearly more dangerous.  The fact that marijuana is still a schedule 1 drug is madness.    Again....I'm ambivalent about recreational weed.  Those who want to smoke already do---- it's not difficult to come by. 

My concern is all the false information out there demonizing CBD's and the medical benefits from MJ.  

Here's an example.......   My Mother was suffering from Rheumatioid Arthritis.  The meds made her very sick---(104 fever, rushed to the hospital)  Turns out the RA meds were making her worse, instead of better.  She asked her doctor about CBD's and medical pot.  The doctor agreed that this would be a good option for her.   If the Doc would have given her an opioid--- no sweat, she would have left with the drugs.   Instead, she had to fill out an 8-page form, describing the "evils" of MJ, and then wait for something like 6 weeks before being able to set up an appointment to get her meds.   It's madness, and is caused by fear-mongering politicians and pharma, making it harder for folks to get medication----even when it's legal.    

 

rant off

Yup. Look up Henry Anslinger and Victor Licata. 

Joe Gearin said:

In reply to SVreX :

Not sure were you are coming from with that one, as my sources were listed.  Feel free to PM me if you like.  I'm out.....

I wasn’t doubting your sources. I was agreeing with the comments Duke posted earlier, which you may have missed. 

You are comparing marijuana overdoses to alcohol related deaths (not overdose, or alcohol poisoning) and tobacco related deaths (which are never an overdose). It’s a mixed metaphor, which makes no sense. The comparisons are not valid. 

You are parroting the exact incorrect positions cited in the article. 

Most of the Greatest Generation has lived through all that we should be afraid of and drank and smoked through it. The question is, if not Marijuana, maybe that same person would have issues with something else, maybe the individual should be more responsible for their actions regardless of what they are abusing. 

In any case: (He is now 74 years old)

Ok guys, it's time for me to come clean and admit my addiction. I have been struggling with this since, well as long as I can remember. I am addicted to milk. 

I have to have it. It's not a question of want. When you reach an addiction level like mine, you will drive to every grocery store in town if needed. I know all the stores that carry Maola, which is my favorite. It has what I crave. I don't care about chocolate milk, I can take it or leave it, but if asked about being stranded on an island and I can pick only one food to have, it would be milk. 

It's not healthy for me, as I actually have a very mild lactose intolerance. I also can't stand milk substitutes or that god awful 2% crap. I've tried to quit, but I just go crazy. It's all I can think about. 

Please, no milk shaming.

In reply to EastCoastMojo :

I haven't had a glass of milk in ... maybe 6 years? It does things to my bowels that make my wife VERY upset. I won't judge you, but I might sit here and be slightly jealous.

I don't have an opinion on pot. Lots of anecdotes that give mixed stories/effects/lessons. I don't partake, I don't drink, I don't smoke, and I don't care what other folks do with their time or money.