I'm torn, help me (automotive ADD content)

Ok, like just a few of you here, I have automotive ADD and it's time to replace one car with another. Here's my dilema. I'm looking for a wagon to press into use as a DD. I'm selling my 2000 Focus because I just don't like it. Here's what I'm considering with the pro's and cons (as I see them) and trusting that you, more level-headed folks will set me straight. I'm not afraid to handle any maintenance/repairs that come my way, I'm a mechanic. That doesn't mean I want to have to fix my car every weekend just to make it to work on Monday. I'm looking to spend about $3500. Volvo 850, 960, V70 or something like that.
Pro's:
They are different, I like the euro feel
You can get a 3rd row seat (for those rare times I'd be taking the kids somewhere)
You can get a manual, but they are hard to find
They are built like a tank, safety and reliability are legendary
Con's:
While you can get a boosted one, they weren't really meant to be sporty, does this equal boring?
More expensive to repair?

Subaru XXXX Wagon
Pro's:
Run for a long time
Very good AWD system
Japanese reliability
Con's:
They tend to rust from what I see
While you can get a boosted one, again, they aren't known for sport-y-ness
I think I an not allowed to own a Subaru wagon unless I wear birkenstocks with white socks

BMW 3 or 5 wagon
Pro's:
Uh, it's a BMW
Con's:
Uh, it's a BMW, how will reliability be with a BMW in this price range?

Jeep Cherokee
Pro's:
They run forever
Pretty reliable
I know them very well. I've owned 14 or 15 jeeps from a '46 flattie to a 2000 Grand Cherokee.
Con's:
I'm gonna want to wheel it. Alot.
Not easy to find a rust-free example
Fuel economy in the high teens, ouch!

I'm really only considering the Cherokee because it's a known entity. Since I've owned so many Jeeps I'm afraid my Auto ADD will kick in and I'll be bored with it quickly. With the Saab, I LOVE that interior. So cool! The volvo seems the least exciting of the bunch, but can still be fun. With the BMW, I've never owned a BMW before, but it's been a mark I've wanted to own for a very long time.

So, what do you think?

One of each, then you just have to decide what to drive when you walk outside in the morning...

Here I thought the answer to all questions was...

Personally I would have to go with the V70. With the right wheels and tires those thing are just cool looking. I keep looking for a GR priced one, but they haven't come down enough for me yet.

Dr Boost said: I'm looking to spend about $3500

I don't see you getting a BMW wagon for that. The oldest wagon is going to be an E46 I think. Anything in that price range is going to be junk.

You can get a Subaru for that. Legacy no problem, Impreza probably, Forester if you look around. In PA we don't see many rusty ones, but north of here I know they can be. Neither our recently departed '96 nor our 100,000+ mile '02 had a speck of rust. They can be hard to find though, as owners tend not to sell them. They just keep them until they are dead.

Cherokee...meh. After driving one, I realized I'd never be happy with that solid axle bouncing around back there and the AMC quality interior. Mediocre gas mileage doesn't help either.

Can't say much about Volvos other than when I deal with them for collision repair they are ungodly expensive to fix. Though I liked the 850 turbo (and thus whatever they are calling it these days) I just never felt any real passion about Volvos. Not since the 142 anyway.

/thread

^^^^^^^ = AWESOME!!!!

ddavidv wrote:

Dr Boost said: I'm looking to spend about $3500

I don't see you getting a BMW wagon for that. The oldest wagon is going to be an E46 I think. Anything in that price range is going to be junk.

Did you get the E34 5-series wagon in the US? They're pretty roomy and a lot of people suggest that they're about the best 5-series from a maintenance/longevity point of view.

We got the e34 525i touring here. Transplanting an e36 M3 engine into one would make for a fun ride.

http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/ctd/1418359047.html

How did I miss that one?! I might have to call on that.

P71 wrote: /thread

Quoted because that car is awesome!

jrw1621 wrote: http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/ctd/1418359047.html

It is a non-turbo version but it is a 5 speed.
From 1994 to 1997 the turbo only came with an automatic.
I too have a '95 NA w/ a 5 speed. It is not fast but I like it.

'94 is a good year. By '96 the same car called for premium fuel but earlier cars are just regular gas.

For your review, here is the online '94 Volvo 850 owners manual
http://apps.volvocars.us/ownersdocs/1994/1994_850/94850_1.html#top

Wagon with 86k miles for only $2.8k

Take a stand, make a statement!
http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/cto/1423391840.html

If you think you need more space?
http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/cto/1422513521.html

JRW, thanks for the owners manual, I'd like to read that. And as far as the Pacer, uh, I like the different cars but the Pacer, I'll just have to pass on that one. I afraid I don't have the space to dock that Chrysler.

Oh, I forgot one more car. How about a Saab wagon? There aren't many wagons out there, but there are a few. Anyone know much about the reliability of them? How about repair costs.

DrBoost wrote: Oh, I forgot one more car. How about a Saab wagon? There aren't many wagons out there, but there are a few. Anyone know much about the reliability of them? How about repair costs.

Beware, Saabs are like a cult. Innocent from the outside, but once your in, you're in for life...

However I have heard they're pretty reliable.

We actually looked at, and liked, the Saab wagon. And I loathe Saabs. My research at the time suggested they weren't any better/worse than the Volvo, though it was suggested the GM V6 be avoided for the more reliable and fun turbo four.

Oh, and the BMW wagons...very, very hard to find one with a stick from what shopping I did.

jrw1621 wrote: http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/ctd/1418359047.html

This green wagon will have the tan interior. I really believe that the Volvo tan leather is inferior to to the charcoal (black) leather.

Here is a local link to an entire Volvo charcoal interior of $100 a piece. A nice upgrade. http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/pts/1427462612.html
More: http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/pts/1416287617.html

If I were replacing my 850, I would be looking at the Saab's as well. The real Saab wagon, the 9-5, came out in 1999 and will likely be higher priced than your range. If you like the idea of the versatile 5 door hatch, then there should be many choices for you. A Saab is also pretty easy to find with a manual trans.

Similar but completely different:

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=266587782&dealer_id=46755221&car_year=2000&rdm=1256476589919&lastStartYear=1981&model=&num_records=25&systime=&make3=&make2=SAAB&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=1981&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=128&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=100&marketZipError=false&model2=&search_lang=en&showZipError=y&make=VOLVO&keywords_display=&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&body_style=WAGON&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&seller_type=b&max_mileage=&style_flag=2&sort_type=priceDESC&address=48034&advanced=&end_year=2010&doors=&transmission=&max_price=8000&cardist=5&standard=false

These were only made with automatic trans and a 1.9L turbo.

If I owned this one I would paint the rims white (with red centers) and put this graphic on the side.

If you are not afraid of 180k miles?

http://toledo.craigslist.org/ctd/1435908472.html

and

http://toledo.craigslist.org/cto/1397124932.html

Wow, I like that 3-series wagon. Nice. The things I really want/like are sort of in competition with each other. I think it's accepted that the Volvo is going to be the more long-lived and tank-like-build of the things I'm considering here, but they are not available with a manual trans and turbo engine (?) and not as fun to drive. The subie, BMW and Saab are all reliable but I'm afraid the BMW and Saab will be more costly to repair/maintain and not quite as reliable as the subie. Then there's that, just a little bit different from the rest, factor. Now, I am starting to consider the saab 5-door. I need the space and versatility of a wagon and the 5-door comes pretty dang close.

Does anyone have a nice general overview article like was posted for the Volvo, for Saabs? Thanks for the tip about the GM motor.

DrBoost wrote: Jeep Cherokee Con's: I'm gonna want to wheel it. Alot.

What's wrong with that? Sounds like a plus to me, but taking into account my name I don't think anyone would expect any different. As for rust-free examples, they're out there. We're not talking 80s-Lancia rust here. Maybe some surface rust, but they're out there. I looked for a Cherokee for a couple years as a side project and looked at 91-95s for a long time and it wasn't impossible to find some with just surface rust, no real deep rot. Although I'm in the South and you're up in Michigan. I'm not surprised about rust up there.

Really depends on what you want. If you're looking for a sporty car, the Cherokee probably won't cut it. It's a solid-axle utility vehicle. From your post it sounds like you want something sporty, so I'll second Saab.

JeepinMatt wrote:

DrBoost wrote: Jeep Cherokee Con's: I'm gonna want to wheel it. Alot.

If you're looking for a sporty car, the Cherokee probably won't cut it. It's a solid-axle utility vehicle. From your post it sounds like you want something sporty, so I'll second Saab.

Yeah, I'm gonna wheel it, ALOT. That's not a con, but I've been into Jeep way to deep for waaaay too long and if I get bit by the wheelin' bug again, I think I'm a gonner. Next thing you know I'll have 44's front and rear with Detroits stuffed inside, a Atlas II behind that AW4 and a Warn 8247 hanging off the front bumper. Anyway, I know it's not sporty, but it's a known entity to me and that's a plus. It's got the room I want and 4WD to boot!
Up here in MI it's hard to find one that's rust free. There's always some tin worm waiting. The last CJ I had (NEVER should have sold that!!!) was rust free when I got it. They PO garage kept it and wiped it down with cloth baby diapers! Man, I was stoked! It was an 86, the serial # showed it was in the last 200 to roll off the line before YJ production started. It had the galvanized body (AMC tried out a few hundred, or thousand depending on who you talk to) and it was built already. Man, it was sweeeeeet! Well, within a year the rust showed up in all the usual CJ spots. What a bummer. In fact, I was at Camp Jeep one year and Moses Ludel actually said he'd love to wheel my jeep because it wasn't over-built but had everything you'd need to tackle "anything you got the stones to try."
Wow, I hijacked my own thread. But, I had to talk Jeeps with another Jeeper. Everywhere else on the 'net I'm known as "Jeepaholic"

Dangit, now you got me looking at a nice Grand Wagoneer on ebay

DrBoost wrote: Yeah, I'm gonna wheel it, ALOT. That's not a con, but I've been into Jeep way to deep for waaaay too long and if I get bit by the wheelin' bug again, I think I'm a gonner. Next thing you know I'll have 44's front and rear with Detroits stuffed inside, a Atlas II behind that AW4 and a Warn 8247 hanging off the front bumper. Anyway, I know it's not sporty, but it's a known entity to me and that's a plus. It's got the room I want and 4WD to boot! Up here in MI it's hard to find one that's rust free. There's always some tin worm waiting. The last CJ I had (NEVER should have sold that!!!) was rust free when I got it. They PO garage kept it and wiped it down with cloth baby diapers! Man, I was stoked! It was an 86, the serial # showed it was in the last 200 to roll off the line before YJ production started. It had the galvanized body (AMC tried out a few hundred, or thousand depending on who you talk to) and it was built already. Man, it was sweeeeeet! Well, within a year the rust showed up in all the usual CJ spots. What a bummer. In fact, I was at Camp Jeep one year and Moses Ludel actually said he'd love to wheel my jeep because it wasn't over-built but had everything you'd need to tackle "anything you got the stones to try." Wow, I hijacked my own thread. But, I had to talk Jeeps with another Jeeper. Everywhere else on the 'net I'm known as "Jeepaholic" Dangit, now you got me looking at a nice Grand Wagoneer on ebay

Ah I know how it is to delay the off road project to get the sporty car done. I had to divert a big chunk of my time and money into the E30, as I feel like time is more of a factor there. But it'll get built. I'm over the hump on the big stuff with the E30 and I've got an eye on a new welder to build those bumpers and skid plates (for the Jeep). All this talk about Atlas IIs and Dana 44s has me wanting to get down to work on my TJ. I'll second that you never should have sold that CJ haha. 86 would have been the one I'd look for too. There's several dozen things I'd wanna know about yours, but I'll settle for asking what size rubber was mounted.

As a side-note on a hijack, you could always look for an old AMC Eagle 4x4. Again, not quite sporty, but you could probably do something with it. A more unique alternative to a Subie Outback. Would be cool if you could find one of those new, never-titled AMCs sitting at the last AMC dealership still operating. It's out in Pikeville, here in NC. AMC Lovers - Clicky Clicky

How good are your price negotiating skills?
Here is what you want and it is in MI but priced at $7.5k

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=267365858&dealer_id=64518685&car_year=2001&rdm=1256561136399&lastStartYear=1981&num_records=25&systime=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=1981&engine=&keywordsrep=&keywordsfyc=&certified=&fuel=&body_code=128&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=200&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&showZipError=n&first_record=26&make=&color=&keywords_display=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&body_style=WAGON&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&seller_type=b&max_mileage=&style_flag=2&sort_type=priceDESC&address=48034&advanced=y&end_year=2010&pager.offset=25&transmission=Manual&doors=&max_price=10000&cardist=120&standard=false

DrBoost wrote:

JeepinMatt wrote:

DrBoost wrote: Jeep Cherokee Con's: I'm gonna want to wheel it. Alot.

If you're looking for a sporty car, the Cherokee probably won't cut it. It's a solid-axle utility vehicle. From your post it sounds like you want something sporty, so I'll second Saab.

Yeah, I'm gonna wheel it, ALOT. That's not a con, but I've been into Jeep way to deep for waaaay too long and if I get bit by the wheelin' bug again, I think I'm a gonner. Next thing you know I'll have 44's front and rear with Detroits stuffed inside, a Atlas II behind that AW4 and a Warn 8247 hanging off the front bumper. Anyway, I know it's not sporty, but it's a known entity to me and that's a plus. It's got the room I want and 4WD to boot! Up here in MI it's hard to find one that's rust free. There's always some tin worm waiting. The last CJ I had (NEVER should have sold that!!!) was rust free when I got it. They PO garage kept it and wiped it down with cloth baby diapers! Man, I was stoked! It was an 86, the serial # showed it was in the last 200 to roll off the line before YJ production started. It had the galvanized body (AMC tried out a few hundred, or thousand depending on who you talk to) and it was built already. Man, it was sweeeeeet! Well, within a year the rust showed up in all the usual CJ spots. What a bummer. In fact, I was at Camp Jeep one year and Moses Ludel actually said he'd love to wheel my jeep because it wasn't over-built but had everything you'd need to tackle "anything you got the stones to try." Wow, I hijacked my own thread. But, I had to talk Jeeps with another Jeeper. Everywhere else on the 'net I'm known as "Jeepaholic" Dangit, now you got me looking at a nice Grand Wagoneer on ebay

Cool! you met Moses! I used to read OffRoad magazine all the time and really enjoyed his columns.