Why does the IRL have such a hard time with restarts? I realize that any time you bunch cars together, the potential for an accident increases. But the Indy guys--who I know have talent--just seem incapable of having a restart without a wreck.
For that matter, I don't think I've ever seen the field take the green for the Indy 500 and still be remotely in the proper 3-wide formation and qualifying order.
Lol you just saw that too I assume. Bad break for Graham Rahal. Seems like go when you see green and don't pass anyone until after the start line would work best. Instead they don't allow the leader to accelerate until he's between the two orange flags.
I think it was Graham who said that they just can't see anything past the wing.
I don't think they are that talented. Some of them are, but enough of them are not, or don't think at the right time to really take the series down the toilet.
Not sure why they have to do a standing start, but at least that mess seemed to be technical to start. Still- how it got to be that big of a mess when the track is that wide is interesting. They do 3 wide starts in 2 weeks, and can't fit a standing start with a stalled car.
The re-starts were comical.
I want to enjoy Indycar- I've been watching since the 70s, and really got into it in the 80s. But to present that to fans, knowing that other races this year also had some bonehead accidents, well... I'll watch it if I'm there, but I won't go out of my way as much. This was the first race I've watched all season- and don't think I missed all that much.
yeah, heard Graham's comment about how they want to get everyone on the straight for it like nascar, but in waiting for that they bunch everyone up too close and these cars don't like to bump each other front and back like nascars can
I noticed that the stands were nearly empty. I'd never expect an Indy 500 crowd, but I don't think anyone really knows what they're racing for.
This race didn't draw the international crowd that the 500 does. It's a big place I don't expect them to fill the stands on the first go. Not to mention the place to see some close up action was the new 4-5-6 to the short backstraight area. There seemed to be a large crowd in the infield portion.
Woody wrote: I noticed that the stands were nearly empty. I'd never expect an Indy 500 crowd, but I don't think anyone really knows what they're racing *for*.
The IRL is really bad at publicizing their events. I had no idea there was an IRL race on today until after it started, when I read about the sloppy start on another forum.
Will wrote:Woody wrote: I noticed that the stands were nearly empty. I'd never expect an Indy 500 crowd, but I don't think anyone really knows what they're racing *for*.The IRL is really bad at publicizing their events. I had no idea there was an IRL race on today until after it started, when I read about the sloppy start on another forum.
Racer.com reports attendance at 21,700. That's not too bad for a first-time race at a venue where many people go for "the" event instead of racing.
i only ever watch the Indy 500- and only if i remember that it's on and i'm not doing something else- so i can't really comment on the skills of the drivers... but if they can't do something as simple as start the race- something that 10 year old kids on karts and on motocross bikes can do- then they have serious issues..
Karts and moto-x bikes are considerably smaller, and don't accelerate as brutally.
oldsaw wrote:Will wrote:Racer.com reports attendance at 21,700. That's not too bad for a first-time race at a venue where many people go for "the" event instead of racing.Woody wrote: I noticed that the stands were nearly empty. I'd never expect an Indy 500 crowd, but I don't think anyone really knows what they're racing *for*.The IRL is really bad at publicizing their events. I had no idea there was an IRL race on today until after it started, when I read about the sloppy start on another forum.
But at a venue with a capacity of 257,000+, it looked pretty deserted.
IRL has been dead for years, it indycar racing. Overall the race was more exciting then any of the F1 races that I attended at Indy. Unless you religiously follow indycar it is hard to keep up on the races as the marketing is horrid. Indycar probably has the most diverse field the skill level I think is decent given the amount of paid drivers in the field.
Did they run the same track configuration as the F1 cars did? If so, I'd be curious to compare lap times.
No they took out the old 4-5 horseshoe and made it a kink and added a new 12-13 bypassing the oval turn 1 area. Sports cars will still running the old config afaik
They don't call them Crapwagons for nothing. That's why nobody is watching. The only thing the current Indy 500 has in common with the old one is they're both 500 miles.
The restarts are like a conga line,The lead car will start to accelerate,then sandbag.This throws a ripple back when if done right leaves the leader accelerating when everyone else is braking. Other rules keep cars from passing before a certain line, etc. If the leaders got black flagged for asshattery this would stop.
TRoglodyte wrote: The restarts are like a conga line,The lead car will start to accelerate,then sandbag.This throws a ripple back when if done right leaves the leader accelerating when everyone else is braking. Other rules keep cars from passing before a certain line, etc. If the leaders got black flagged for asshattery this would stop.
Isn't that how restarts are supposed to happen? The leader tries to get a jump on the field, and the field tries to not let that happen..
oldsaw wrote: Racer.com reports attendance at 21,700. That's not too bad for a first-time race at a venue where many people go for "the" event instead of racing.
There were at least double that, as IMS said they'd be happy with 40k, and they were "very happy." The crowd around the Pagoda before the race was more dense than recent Carb Days, I thought. I never expected the crowd to be that strong. The weather probably brought some extra people out, as the Friday crowd in the off and on rain was pretty soft.
We had a blast, and I was highly skeptical of the event when it was announced. Not a fan of fuel-mileage races, but it was interesting seeing the different strategies play out and come together in the last part of the race.
novaderrik wrote:TRoglodyte wrote: The restarts are like a conga line,The lead car will start to accelerate,then sandbag.This throws a ripple back when if done right leaves the leader accelerating when everyone else is braking. Other rules keep cars from passing before a certain line, etc. If the leaders got black flagged for asshattery this would stop.Isn't that how restarts are supposed to happen? The leader tries to get a jump on the field, and the field tries to not let that happen..
I think one huge problem is that the start area is way far down the track, to the point where they want all of the cars on the straight. Which puts the cars super close together.
But that's only one problem of the starts. The other is the bone head tries at passing that result in crashes. You drop behind a car by a .25 sec a lap, and all of a sudden you think you MUST pass him, to the point where you crash. Cup cars do that to- especially late in the race. Which causes massive pile ups.
i hate that.
The field is also extremely tight these days. I think one of the practice sessions at IMS had all but one or two cars within one second. They are far removed from the days of Milka and Marty Roth.
IMS would look deserted with 100,000 fans in attendance. That place is so massive you need 200K or more people there to make it look decently attended.
Check out the Brickyard 400--- viewing on T.V. the place looked empty. (especially compared to the Indy 500-- which is usually pretty full) It's just a byproduct of having an event in such a massive complex. I have no doubt they could fit half a million people inside the track without any problems. (including infield)
on a side note----- anyone else notice that the seats in the grandstands at Daytona are all painted different colors? This way, when the cameras pan past--- it looks like the seats are full.
I don't get the current hate for Indy car racing. The racing is actually excellent. I don't understand the issues with standing starts though. All these guys (no full time women this year for the first time in years) have done standing starts in the lower formula and many of them have come up through the European junior formula which all have standing starts. I don't know if the issue is Dallara with the installation and hand control of the clutch or the C-trac with the gearbox, AP with the clutch itself or what.
But the racing itself is great, better than F1 right now. The first few laps under green were some amazing racing. And watching the in car, those guys are really driving the cars. They are so much more fun to watch the incar then F1, they are really earning their money in comparison.
I really take offence at Eric’s comment that these guys aren’t talented, there are no Milka Duno’s around anymore. Let’s look at the quality of the field that raced last weekend.
You have 5 ex F1 drivers (JPM, Wilson, Bourdais, Sato and Montagny) plus Brisco who was a Friday/Third driver/Reserve and contracted test driver and Marco who has tested F1
You have 12 Drivers from F3000/GP2/World Series by Renault/F Renault 3.5/A1GP, basically the last step prior to F1
You have 12 Drivers from Indy Lights / Indy Pro etc.
You have 9 drivers from Euro F3/GP3
At least half the grid has LeMans, World Sportscar and or ALMS experience.
Indy cars is no longer the place for rich playboys and girls that it was in the later dark days of the split. There are many talented drivers who could / would be in F1 or still there if the chips had fallen differently. No it’s not back to the heady days of the late 80’s early 90’s where you could honestly say Indy Car / Cart was a true alternative to F1, but it’s got some serious talent in the field.
In reply to Adrian_Thompson:
So, explain the crashes then. Not even taking in the start, since that can be argued as a technical problem.
Crashing + LONG yellows makes for a bad race.
If you want to call them talented, fine, but if they have talent, they also have no brains. I REALLY want Indy Car to be good, but seening one bad pass turn into a series of crashes after the yellow that resulted from that is just too much.
According to the box score, the crash between Dixon and Power (which IMHO, was a moronic move) lasted 5 laps. For two cars that were so incredibly damaged that they finished the race on the same lap as the leader. Then a crash between Montangy and Plowman for 3 laps. A two lap shorter break yet one car was out. hmm. The claim is that lap 47 was clear, but the crash was on the same lap as the restart. Then the last crash between Montoya and Rahal was on the front straight AT the restart- 4 laps.
The longest of those yellows was so incredibly serious that both cars finished on the lead lap. The other ones were shorter since there was a mess to clean up.
Is it the rules (yes) or the drivers (yes). I'm tired of it.
Yes, some of them USED to race F1. Used to race other major series. Notable word Used. Heck, Montoya was a wash up in NASCAR. (I know that's a stretch, but it's not as if he won a major race).
No, it's not Milka. But it's not exactly that much fun to watch.
alfadriver wrote: In reply to Adrian_Thompson: So, explain the crashes then. Not even taking in the start, since that can be argued as a technical problem. Crashing + LONG yellows makes for a bad race. If you want to call them talented, fine, but if they have talent, they also have no brains. I REALLY want Indy Car to be good, but seening one bad pass turn into a series of crashes after the yellow that resulted from that is just too much. According to the box score, the crash between Dixon and Power (which IMHO, was a moronic move) lasted 5 laps. For two cars that were so incredibly damaged that they finished the race on the same lap as the leader. Then a crash between Montangy and Plowman for 3 laps. A two lap shorter break yet one car was out. hmm. The claim is that lap 47 was clear, but the crash was on the same lap as the restart. Then the last crash between Montoya and Rahal was on the front straight AT the restart- 4 laps. The longest of those yellows was so incredibly serious that both cars finished on the lead lap. The other ones were shorter since there was a mess to clean up. Is it the rules (yes) or the drivers (yes). I'm tired of it. Yes, some of them USED to race F1. Used to race other major series. Notable word Used. Heck, Montoya was a wash up in NASCAR. (I know that's a stretch, but it's not as if he won a major race). No, it's not Milka. But it's not exactly that much fun to watch.
To take a track like Mid-Ohio and Barberton and make it a decent race is a feat given that they are motorcycle tracks. What indycar has done I think is amazing, if you think the talent is thin because of the bone head moves, have you watch F1 or Nascar lately? Maldonado can't make it through a practice without out making a mistake, and Nascar is one crash after another with cars running circles, and a championship that makes no sense. Add to Nascar and F1 the odds of someone different winning, indycar is looking pretty especially last year when they had several new winners, did you even watch Indycar?
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