Investing in cryptocurrencies...Learn me

93gsxturbo said:

The thing I always wonder with Bitcoin and similar....

 

If I had 100,000,000 US dollars worth of bitcoin on Dec 20, 2017, would someone have actually stroked me a check for a cool hundred mill?  How about today?  Is anyone confident enough to hold a lot of it bought at market price?  Or is everyone who holds large volumes of bitcoin people who got in cheap and now can't dump it because no one will cash them out?

I think most of the exchanges have limits to daily or weekly selling. I've heard anywhere from $2500-10,000 limits, so cashing out $100 million worth of Bitcoin would take something like 10,000 weeks (192 years). And you'd be paying fees for each transaction. I'm sure somebody has figured out an easier way, or people wouldn't be using it to funnel and launder large amounts of dirty money but to my unkeen eye, it doesn't seem easy to liquidate "on the up and up". Maybe you could just buy a ton of stuff with the Bitcoin instead? I dunno.

If you had invested in a Bitcoin fund, rather than mining Bitcoin yourself, that seems like standard investment selling techniques could be used.

In reply to GameboyRMH :

Well that's good news for the "I can't get a graphics card" people as it looks like it took Ethereum with it. Now why should Nvidia and AMD make huge capital investments in capacity again?

93gsxturbo said:

The thing I always wonder with Bitcoin and similar....

 

If I had 100,000,000 US dollars worth of bitcoin on Dec 20, 2017, would someone have actually stroked me a check for a cool hundred mill?  How about today?  Is anyone confident enough to hold a lot of it bought at market price?  Or is everyone who holds large volumes of bitcoin people who got in cheap and now can't dump it because no one will cash them out?

Like with a lot of different types of assets, you can't usually dump a large quantity onto the open market at any one time without pushing the price downward. By dumping a lot of a particular asset at once onto the market you are increasing the available supply, and if the demand is not there to match the price then drops.  So just as one would not be able to dump a lot of a particular stock onto the market without pushing the value of that stock downward, the same would apply to cryptocurrency markets.  The people who hold a bunch of bitcoin are just going to have to sell it in small chunks over time.

I was thinking more of a private party trade - if I had the coins, and someone else was holding a huge amount of liquid assets, would anyone swap?

Or would anyone give me $100 million in gold for $100 million in imaginary currency?  

Who would give me 50 Veyrons for a zip drive with $100 million electrons on it?  No one, thats who.  Bitcoin is a sham.  

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

That's what darkpools are for. 

In reply to szeis4cookie :

Except $100 million is peanuts when $137 billion in stocks are traded every day in the us. PLUS bitcoin is supposed to be a currency which should not be affected by trading volume like a stock would be. 

Well here's another groundbreakingly stupid idea involving cryptocurrency, from people you wouldn't expect:

https://www.engadget.com/2018/02/02/unicef-game-chaingers-mining-for-charity/

Just donate money with your credit card or whatever instead. That way you'll save on high-end GPUs, power bills, and most likely, carbon emissions.

93gsxturbo said:

I was thinking more of a private party trade - if I had the coins, and someone else was holding a huge amount of liquid assets, would anyone swap?

 

Or would anyone give me $100 million in gold for $100 million in imaginary currency?  

 

Who would give me 50 Veyrons for a zip drive with $100 million electrons on it?  No one, thats who.  Bitcoin is a sham.  

RE: Bitcoin Millionaires

I feel the need to share this.

^A bunker for storing bitcoins is incredibly silly. Just encrypt your wallet file and upload it to your Dropbox, Gmail etc. in addition to putting it on your home backup drive. It'll be safer and won't cost you anything. What a bunch of pointless security theatre.

Paul posted this thread on 12/10/17 when Bitcoin was at $15,229. Today it is at $8,654. Jags don't depreciate that fast (but close).

In reply to slefain :

Give it 5 minutes. It's 230 dollars lower than when you posted that and by the time I finish it'll be 2 or 3 percent in another direction. Volatile doesn't even begin to describe what's going on here.

The0retical said:

In reply to slefain :

Give it 5 minutes. It's 230 dollars lower than when you posted that and by the time I finish it'll be 2 or 3 percent in another direction. Volatile doesn't even begin to describe what's going on here.

At least the value does go up. Jags tend to only go one way.

As of when I type this at 4PM EST, the DJIA is down over 630 points, so it's more than Bitcoin that's taking a hit.  

Regardless, investing in crypto-currencies is definitely an example of when to use a trailing stop.

slefain said:

The0retical said:

In reply to slefain :

Give it 5 minutes. It's 230 dollars lower than when you posted that and by the time I finish it'll be 2 or 3 percent in another direction. Volatile doesn't even begin to describe what's going on here.

At least the value does go up. Jags tend to only go one way.

Got me there.

Ian F said:

As of when I type this at 4PM EST, the DJIA is down over 630 points, so it's more than Bitcoin that's taking a hit.  

Regardless, investing in crypto-currencies is definitely an example of when to use a trailing stop.

2.54% in one day.  That's really bad.

The worst crash day in history (Black Tuesday Oct. 29, 1929) was 12%.

Bitcoin dropped 13% in one day this week, and is down nearly 50% in the last 2 months. 

I heard a commercial for Cash-Call (high interest rate loans for people with bad credit) over the weekend. They suggested several things you could do with your newfound Cash-Call money one of which being “buy Bitcoin on a dip”.

Are you Berking $@#&^$%$ Berking %#$@*^& Berking kidding me!!!

Oh….my…Gauuuud!!!

In reply to RX Reven' :

Wow that takes predatory lending to a whole other level.

I'm interested to see what's up with Tether. I'm betting it isn't solvent and makes things worse.

Also Lightning Network. So it's effectively credit card processor for a  decentralized currency? Tell me again about solutions in search of a problem?

In reply to RX Reven' :

By their nature, those types tend to prey on the ill-informed. 

The top-of-the-line GPU shortage is starting to have effects beyond annoying rich gamers:

https://www.engadget.com/2018/02/14/cryptocurrency-mining-is-hampering-the-search-for-alien-life/

Collectively I suppose we deserve to not meet the aliens

In reply to GameboyRMH :

Between the GPU shortage, microtransactions, and always connected gaming(even for single player), I feel like I’ve picked the right time to no longer be much of a video gamer.

And back on topic, Bitcoin is at $9310 right now.  Still way too volatile to use as a currency, except maybe in Zimbabwe.

Act surprised, everyone:

https://www.vox.com/world/2018/2/28/17055762/north-korea-sanctions-bitcoin-nuclear-weapons

In reply to GameboyRMH :

I'm sort of amazed still that more governments haven't cracked down harder on Bitcoin. There's a been a lot of instances of flagrant use of the cryptocurrency networks to legitimize of dark money. That E36 M3's supposed to be harder that this.

I liked today's other article:

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/02/self-proclaimed-bitcoin-creator-accused-of-5-billion-crypto-heist/

Getting sued for 5 billion dollars...

I'll be honest. I bailed. I should've sold when I had made twice my money, but I really do like the idea behind crypto, so I hodl'ed. 

I got out having lost $50. 

Recently the IRS forced Coinbase to release the information of 13,000 users. If you made a few grand, it's worth doing taxes. If you made a few bucks, it's a royal pain. 

In that respect, I'm glad having gotten out not making any money.

One thing it did teach me though is to be a little more involved in my investing. 

In reply to pheller :

Or less involved in your investing, and investing instead of gambling...

As the future of crypto looks more and more bleak, tax issues aren't helping either. There seems to be a lot of debate about what constitutes "gains" within the crytpo-currency trading market. 

I'm glad I didn't put more money in. 

I "made" $80 of fake money, but I lost $50 of real money. It sounds like I should technically pay taxes on my gains, even if they were not realized. 

It's wierd to me that this could be taxable, it'd would be like me paying $100 to play a game of monopoly, and the winner gets $600, but the losers get nothing.  During the game, I've made $400 in Monopoly Money, but I end up not winning, and losing my $100 of real money. Why do I pay taxes on the $400 gain of fake money I was playing with during the game?