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GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
2/3/15 12:05 p.m.

Now they're burning people alive:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/03/us-mideast-crisis-killing-idUSKBN0L71XE20150203

There's going to be another sudden surge of concern the first time they do this to a Western hostage. I guess they're going to follow history backwards to look for more and more inhumane execution methods. They started at 1700s, now they're at maybe 1500s...how long until they reach crucifixion and then impalement? They'll have to use time-lapse videos for methods that take so long.

ronholm
ronholm Dork
2/3/15 12:07 p.m.

uuuuhhhhh They are already crucifying people...

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
2/3/15 12:10 p.m.

^Ah true...but not for the cameras.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker MegaDork
2/3/15 12:18 p.m.

They seem nice. I wonder what's eating them?

mndsm
mndsm MegaDork
2/3/15 12:21 p.m.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: They seem nice. I wonder what's eating them?

Dude, they're in the desert. They REALLY want some Klondike bars.

ronholm
ronholm Dork
2/3/15 12:55 p.m.
GameboyRMH wrote: ^Ah true...but not for the cameras.

yes they do.

RX Reven'
RX Reven' Dork
2/3/15 2:00 p.m.

The rational for executing people in unnecessarily painful and gruesome ways appears to be nothing more than intimidation.

I’d be interested in hearing them try to justify their execution methods within the context of “doing god’s work”.

I know I sound naïve but there is a distinction between admitting you’re a bad guy vs maintaining the premise that you’re not.

All well managed improvement undertakings start with a skillfully crafted problem statement. Einstein once said “if I had a day to save the world, I’d spend 23 hours defining the problem and one hour finding the solution”.

So, I think it’s critical that we properly define this problem…are we confronting religious fanatics that actually believe they’re doing the right thing or are we confronting criminals that are exploiting religion to promote their selfish interests.

Again, I know I sound naïve…I’m pretty sure I know the answer to this question but I think we need to go step by step starting with an unambiguous, quantifiable problem statement.

Who are they, what are they, where are they, why are they, and how are they.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
2/3/15 2:06 p.m.

I think it's neither one. They're not religious fanatics or a bunch of unusually brutal criminals exploiting religion. They're a political militant group exploiting religion. They don't just like violence, they want to carve out a new country for themselves where they are the group that rules it. Think African warlords.

KyAllroad
KyAllroad Dork
2/3/15 2:08 p.m.

If a rabid dog bites me, I don't question the dogs motives. I shoot it in the head.

Sadly as long as the side of "freedom for all" goes into this conflict with such limited choices of how to deal with the side of intolerance who are on a "holy mission" to eradicate all other faiths at the point of the sword if need be it will be a long time getting settled.

ronholm
ronholm Dork
2/3/15 2:15 p.m.
GameboyRMH wrote: I think it's neither one. They're not religious fanatics or a bunch of unusually brutal criminals exploiting religion. They're a political militant group exploiting religion. They don't just like violence, they want to carve out a new country for themselves where they are the group that rules it. Think African warlords.

If you are going to define it like that.. Lets make sure and not pretend it is a new problem.

Have you ever read what John Quincy Adams had to say about this? Or studied the Ottoman Empire?

I have a problem with people painting every Muslim with this brush, well just because human decency.. But this isn't a new problem within the Islamic faith.

John Quincy Adams on Islam: In the seventh century of the Christian era, a wandering Arab of the lineage of Hagar, the Egyptian, [ Editor’s Note: Mohammed] combining the powers of transcendent genius, with the preternatural energy of a fanatic, and the fraudulent spirit of an impostor, proclaimed himself as a messenger from Heaven, and spread desolation and delusion over an extensive portion of the earth. Adopting from the sublime conception of the Mosaic law, the doctrine of one omnipotent God; he connected indissolubly with it, the audacious falsehood, that he was himself his prophet and apostle. Adopting from the new Revelation of Jesus, the faith and hope of immortal life, and of future retribution, he humbled it to the dust, by adapting all the rewards and sanctions of his religion to the gratification of the sexual passion. He poisoned the sources of human felicity at the fountain, by degrading the condition of the female sex, and the allowance of polygamy; and he declared undistinguishing and exterminating war, as a part of his religion, against all the rest of mankind. THE ESSENCE OF HIS DOCTRINE WAS VIOLENCE AND LUST: TO EXALT THE BRUTAL OVER THE SPIRITUAL PART OF HUMAN NATURE [capitals in original]. Between these two religions, thus contrasted in their characters, a war of twelve hundred years has already raged. That war is yet flagrant; nor can it cease but by the extinction of that imposture, which has been permitted by Providence to prolong the degeneracy of man. While the merciless and dissolute dogmas of the false prophet shall furnish motives to human action, there can never be peace upon earth, and good will towards men. The hand of Ishmael will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him. It is, indeed, amongst the mysterious dealings of God, that this delusion should have been suffered for so many ages, and during so many generations of human kind, to prevail over the doctrines of the meek and peaceful and benevolent Jesus… The precept of the koran is, perpetual war against all who deny, that Mahomet is the prophet of God. The vanquished may purchase their lives, by the payment of tribute; the victorious may be appeased by a false and delusive promise of peace; and the faithful follower of the prophet, may submit to the imperious necessities of defeat: but the command to propagate the Moslem creed by the sword is always obligatory, when it can be made effective. The commands of the prophet may be performed alike, by fraud, or by force. (Capitals in original)

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker MegaDork
2/3/15 2:26 p.m.

I think maybe they just need some hugs.

z31maniac
z31maniac UltimaDork
2/3/15 2:33 p.m.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I think maybe they just need some mouth hugs.

FTFY

mapper
mapper Reader
2/3/15 2:43 p.m.

They're reverse emo: They cut others so they can feel.

yamaha
yamaha MegaDork
2/3/15 3:49 p.m.
mapper wrote: They're reverse emo: They cut others so they can feel.

I'm laughing at this much more than I should....

NOHOME
NOHOME UltraDork
2/3/15 3:57 p.m.

Unfortunately, it has to be considered that what we are seeing are the true colors of Islam. Were it not so, there would be much louder objections from the "mainstream" practitioners of Islam.

In contrast, their silence is deafening.

Trans_Maro
Trans_Maro UberDork
2/3/15 4:12 p.m.

^this...

I've been wondering why we're not hearing more outrage from the moderate muslims.

mndsm
mndsm MegaDork
2/3/15 4:25 p.m.

I've seen a couple of the beheading videos- I'm fairly certain at least a portion of them are faked. Maybe they're not as brutal as they think they are.....

kazoospec
kazoospec Dork
2/3/15 6:22 p.m.

I've heard that, in response, Jordan will be expediting the execution of all prisoners they were seeking in exchange for the pilot. Not sure it will solve the problem, but "tough talk" hasn't been working that well either.

On the other hand, I hope they don't try to match these criminals brutality for brutality. I'm not saying they don't need to be exterminated, just the "they set ours on fire, we'll set theirs on fire" approach usually just ups the ante. The wars between the settlers and various Indian/Native American tribes are a perfect example. In the end, neither side was content just to kill each other (horrible as that is), it quickly became a contest of inflicting more extreme torture and mutilation on each other, including each side's noncombatants. Its sort of like the old saying about arguing with idiots. . .

daeman
daeman Reader
2/3/15 7:25 p.m.

Having known a few Christians from the middle east, most openly believe there is no reasoning or coexisting with the Muslim faith. There are parts of the middle east that have been waring for 2000+ years.... Doesn't really leave much hope that their minds and ideals can somehow be changed. On the flip side, I've known quite a few Muslims who staunchly oppose this kind of extremism and violence... Its all a big can of worms that only gets worse the more the world globalises.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
2/3/15 7:36 p.m.
NOHOME wrote: Unfortunately, it has to be considered that what we are seeing are the true colors of Islam. Were it not so, there would be much louder objections from the "mainstream" practitioners of Islam. In contrast, their silence is deafening.
Trans_Maro wrote: ^this... I've been wondering why we're not hearing more outrage from the moderate muslims.

There's plenty of condemnation from mainstream Islam, but they might have to rent some billboards to get them noticed:

http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/commonwordcommonlord/2014/08/think-muslims-havent-condemned-isis-think-again.html

Trans_Maro
Trans_Maro UberDork
2/3/15 7:59 p.m.

In reply to GameboyRMH:

It still just seems like words without any real action.

Or is this like the catholic church saying pedophiles are immoral?

I've tried to see this with an open mind and believe that the majority of these people are peaceful and simply want to live their life and be left alone.

I'm sure this is the truth but I can't help the feeling in the back of my mind that it isn't the truth and there is a majority that wants to drag the world back a few centuries.

Clearly educating these nuts is not working, reasoning with them is not working. Maybe we need to go back to grade school and hit them back twice as hard.

tuna55
tuna55 UltimaDork
2/3/15 10:45 p.m.

So we take a "what car for a young single Mom short on cash?" thread into an argument about drifting, and you guys think we're going to accomplish peace in the middle east?

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
2/3/15 11:05 p.m.
mndsm wrote: Dude, they're in the desert....

"There is nothing in the desert and no man needs nothing"

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
2/3/15 11:11 p.m.

An important aspect of this act is missing here. It was pretty clear it was shot at least a few weeks ago. Meaning, they were negotiating to free a man that was already dead. Meaning, there is NO reason to ever pay a ransom or do a any sort of deal with them (not that there ever really was).

Here is an interesting look inside (at bit of scary and sad all mixed together):

http://youtu.be/AUjHb4C7b94

gamby
gamby UltimaDork
2/4/15 12:41 a.m.
Trans_Maro wrote: In reply to GameboyRMH: It still just seems like words without any real action. Or is this like the catholic church saying pedophiles are immoral?

Well, the silence of the Catholic church was deafening for a long time. However, Catholic church membership is dwindling in a big way.

I'm left-leaning and I still agree that moderate Muslims are VERY quiet about this. In MANY cases, they don't condone a lot of this terrorist action, but they don't necessarily condemn it, either. That whole "death to non-Muslims" thing.

Charlie Hebdo did a LOT of damage in terms of the world's opinion on Islam.

Meanwhile, Jordan just executed two of their ISIS-related prisoners in retaliation. Things could get interesting in terms of Jordan and further retaliation.

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