ISPs: Which one is less satan-y, and my own router?

Looks like my choices for internet at the new house are Xfinity and Fios. There is one other small company that is more expensive and has crappy download speeds (12mbps)

One is fiberoptic, one is cable, so I would assume more stable speeds with the optics? Since I'm not sharing conductors with everyone on the street? They both offer $40 for decent speeds, but then the price pretty much doubles after a year.

I have also had terrible experience with router rentals. Seems like the routers they provide are so terrible and only last about a year. The service at mom and dad's goes out frequently and is usually solved by a modem reboot but it only lasts a week at best. They've had to request a new router three times in the last year. Same was true with my fios in Pittsburgh, although not quite as bad. Is the answer to that just buying my own better router?

Well, as much as I absolutely HATE to recommend Comcast, Verizon has made it abundantly clear they don't give a E36 M3 about Pennsylvania. Having installed their fios before, it's really a wash on speeds and price.

At least when you call and threaten to cancel Comcast because your bill goes up every month while outages increase and speeds decrease, they'll sometimes give you a discount.

I've used Comcast modems exclusively. I get 3 to 5 years out of them. Slightly cheaper to buy your own, but being to able just take it to the Comcast store and get another for no extra fee is nice.

I don't use their included Wi-Fi though, just using the modem as a modem with my own router seems to work a lot better than everyone I know just using their modem as a router.

My home internet got worse after they installed fiber optic. I presume its because they can throttle me down to exactly the download speed I'm paying for, or they didn't put big enough intertubes in and they system gets plugged.

IDK about fiber but with cable definitely get a separate modem and router.

Yep, if you go Comcast definitely get your own modem and router. Comcast offers free wifi Hotspots with your account - think carefully about that and rental routers, and you will understand how they pull it off.

Always get your own separate router and invest in a good one. It will last you a long time. All the modem/wireless router combo units suck. I can send you my perfectly good and definitely still fast enough Motorola modem if you go Comcast. It's the SB6121 model. $10 for shipping? Don't let the Comcast drones try to convince you to upgrade to their newer modems. Waste of money for your usage needs.

Definitely get you own modem and router. As far as Comcast vs. FIOS, I don't know.

To me FIOS is a nasty word. I see the ads on TV every day. I live on the main street in the second largest city in the state of Maryland and FIOS is not available to me. And any time I call they will not even give me a timeframe as to when it will be available.

I have a combo modem/router I bought 2.5 years ago.

Works great.

It's nice to have two high speed choices. If they don't require a contract, just alternate them annually when the price is about to increase.

RevRico wrote: Well, as much as I absolutely HATE to recommend Comcast, Verizon has made it abundantly clear they don't give a E36 M3 about Pennsylvania. Having installed their fios before, it's really a wash on speeds and price. At least when you call and threaten to cancel Comcast because your bill goes up every month while outages increase and speeds decrease, they'll sometimes give you a discount.

Another reason to use Comcast over Verizon (man this thread is dark) is that Verizon is pretty much the last ISP that's still fighting against net neutrality.

Comcrap will attempt to screw you every which way, constantly pressure you to bundle, and overcharge the E36 M3 out of you after the "promo period" expires, but I have to admit, their internet service is fast and reliable. Miles better than the AT&T Uverse garbage I used to have.

Still looking like Satan A versus Satan B.

I hate Comcast, but the only real problem I have with them is they want all of my money. The pipe to the web is almost always connected, and it ain't slow.

Without giving away my employer I'll say that generally a cable system can support much higher speeds than provided to the customer. I regularly test in nodes capable of providing 4 times the speeds of that the average customer pays for.

As to service issues, my company is trying internally to change it's ways. Operations (techs in the field) is great. We're constantly hamstrung by the call centers. Modems should last years. Generally when I find a customer that's constantly swapping them out or resetting them it's a signal issue not a modem issue (small percentage the electrical power in the house burns them out).

Curtis does Penteledata's network not extend that far out?

I agree on trying to keep the router separate from the modem. My FIOS modem had a wireless router built into it in California. Decoupling them was a pain and it never worked right. Verizon is desperately trying to get out of PA, both in it's copper networks and FIOS so, as horrible as this is to say, Comcast is probably the better choice here.

I'd get a good router and just use whatever modem they provide.

curtis73 wrote: Still looking like Satan A versus Satan B.

Pick one: Satan or Lucifer.

Verizon and Fios is a sordid affair. A certain politician tried to make "broadband" nationwide. Verizon took this to mean 3MBS DSL lines all over. So they got the copper contract with PA, as part of them being allowed to bring FIOS here.

They still haven't finished delivering DSL to the state, but have scrapped all copper lines they have. Phone, DSL, they don't care, they're done supporting it, and they're being sued by the state because of it. Verizon wants to push everyone to stupidly overpriced wireless highspeed, basically mobile data, because they can charge WAY more for it, reach less customers, but appear to be cutting edge tech wise.

Verizon also over promised, under delivered, and according to what they tell the techs to say "weren't prepared for everyone to be streaming everything" when they started the FIOS rollout. So they tied up TONS of resources all over the state, delivered FIOS to about half of one county out here on the west side, and maybe a little more on the east, then STOPPED. They own the right of ways for the "utility" though, so no one else can really get into the game. There are neighborhood "Hubs" that all the lines going into the houses connect to. The neighborhood feedline itself is a pretty healthy speed, but breaking it down to all the houses on the street, then only running fiber optic cable to the modem and making it go the rest of the way on copper really cuts down on their deliverable speeds.

The side benefit of this story, is that smaller ISPs are beginning to do what Verizon refused. Out here, it's Citizens Fiber, and every single pole they want to run lines through, some of which already have Verizon Fiber Optic lines on (yea, they got as far as running lines without delivering any service), so for every single street these smaller ISPs want to expand on, they have to appear in front of the state, tell them exactly what Verizon has been doing, force Verizon to say it's ok, then they can add that street. They're offering 1 gb/s parrallel speeds for $85/month. 1 gigabyte per second UP and DOWN for less than what I get charged by comcrap for what is supposed to be 100MB/s but tests at 40MB/s DOWN and a pitiful 2mb/s up.

The lawsuits against Verizon in the state of PA will make a very entertaining and WTF?! style movie in a few years.

Comcrap really is the lesser of two evils in this situation, unless you have Sprint and good coverage at your house. For the cost of adding a line specifically to be a mobile hotspot, Sprint is way cheaper than Comcrap and Verizon,and with Sprints unlimited data, not a problem unless your uploading copies of all your theater shows from home.

Ive had alot better luck with using spectrums combination modem/router then i ever did buying my own routers. Were on year 3 since the switch and just replaced it 6 months ago for the first time.

The0retical wrote: Curtis does Penteledata's network not extend that far out?

Never even heard of them. I'll look into it. All of the "who provides internet at my address" sites don't include it, but perhaps they have to pay to be listed and they opted not to.

RevRico wrote:

curtis73 wrote: Still looking like Satan A versus Satan B.

Pick one: Satan or Lucifer. Verizon and Fios is a sordid affair. A certain politician tried to make "broadband" nationwide. Verizon took this to mean 3MBS DSL lines all over. So they got the copper contract with PA, as part of them being allowed to bring FIOS here. They still haven't finished delivering DSL to the state, but have scrapped all copper lines they have. Phone, DSL, they don't care, they're done supporting it, and they're being sued by the state because of it. Verizon wants to push everyone to stupidly overpriced wireless highspeed, basically mobile data, because they can charge WAY more for it, reach less customers, but appear to be cutting edge tech wise. Verizon also over promised, under delivered, and according to what they tell the techs to say "weren't prepared for everyone to be streaming everything" when they started the FIOS rollout. So they tied up TONS of resources all over the state, delivered FIOS to about half of one county out here on the west side, and maybe a little more on the east, then STOPPED. They own the right of ways for the "utility" though, so no one else can really get into the game. There are neighborhood "Hubs" that all the lines going into the houses connect to. The neighborhood feedline itself is a pretty healthy speed, but breaking it down to all the houses on the street, then only running fiber optic cable to the modem and making it go the rest of the way on copper really cuts down on their deliverable speeds. The side benefit of this story, is that smaller ISPs are beginning to do what Verizon refused. Out here, it's Citizens Fiber, and every single pole they want to run lines through, some of which already have Verizon Fiber Optic lines on (yea, they got as far as running lines without delivering any service), so for every single street these smaller ISPs want to expand on, they have to appear in front of the state, tell them exactly what Verizon has been doing, force Verizon to say it's ok, then they can add that street. They're offering 1 gb/s parrallel speeds for $85/month. 1 gigabyte per second UP and DOWN for less than what I get charged by comcrap for what is supposed to be 100MB/s but tests at 40MB/s DOWN and a pitiful 2mb/s up. The lawsuits against Verizon in the state of PA will make a very entertaining and WTF?! style movie in a few years. Comcrap really is the lesser of two evils in this situation, unless you have Sprint and good coverage at your house. For the cost of adding a line specifically to be a mobile hotspot, Sprint is way cheaper than Comcrap and Verizon,and with Sprints unlimited data, not a problem unless your uploading copies of all your theater shows from home.

That is a lot of good info. Thank you.

The thing I can't get around is that Fios speed-for-dollar is the clear winner. If I go with Fios, will they scrap service in a year?

Here is what I've found so far:
Fios: 50/50 speed for 39.99 first year, then $56 and change after that. Potentially more stable speed with nodes/fi-op
Comcast: 25/5 speed for $44.99 first year, then $75 after that. Potentially less stable speed with sharing and from what the above folks are saying, not even stable pricing and high pressure sales.

The last I've heard from any techs, I've not dealt with customer service or actual customers, is that they ARE supporting what they have already, but, they are trying to get away from it in a hurry.

I know I heard complaints about the TV service more than the internet, so if you're just looking for internet they might actually work.

Those prices are so different than what I've been seeing on my bill, I had no idea they were opening so low. Had I known Fios was so cheap, I wouldn't have written that story.

Edit: Wait. What are they going to charge for installation? What installation still needs done? Do you have power poles out there or underground?

I have xfinity. Brought my own router and modem (about $100/ea). No problems so far.

RevRico wrote: The last I've heard from any techs, I've not dealt with customer service or actual customers, is that they ARE supporting what they have already, but, they are trying to get away from it in a hurry. I know I heard complaints about the TV service more than the internet, so if you're just looking for internet they might actually work. Those prices are so different than what I've been seeing on my bill, I had no idea they were opening so low. Had I known Fios was so cheap, I wouldn't have written that story. Edit: Wait. What are they going to charge for installation? What installation still needs done? Do you have power poles out there or underground?

There is no fi-op to the house, but there is evidently on the street. My last Fios (6 years ago) I was able to get them to waive the installation fee, but it was a full install; fi-op from the street, box outside, battery backup inside, and wire the house because there was no coax.

Install is $90, but I think I can get them to waive it. Especially because there is Comcast there now, and I can play the "what will you do for me so I don't keep Comcast" card

If it's underground, they will berkeley up your yard going from the street to the house, especially if they need to cross the driveway or sidewalk. That's my only real concern since you just bought the place.

You can only be so gentle running a pneumatic missile with a pull chain behind it, and you need a hole on either side as big as the missile. God forbid it hits a rock or changes course under the driveway/sidewalk, that can get expensive fast. And using the third party contractors Verizon uses for installations, well, it may never get fixed.

If it's overhead, or you're not super concerned about how your yard looks this season, go for it. I'm just remembering all the arguing and fighting we got, and all the mcmansion yards that got destroyed when the sod got pulled up. Nothing like driving through a neighborhood with an average house cost of $650k and seeing giant dead paths from the road to the house.

My little slice of Maryland ended up with a isp from the middle of PA.

Armstrong has somehow managed to give us worse service than both Comcast and Verizon. Both of whom surround our town but are not allowed in our town.

As for Routers, I get mine from Walmart, Cisco seems to make a good one. I just replaced mine after like 5 or 6 years and the speed difference was amazing.

I've had FIOS (internet only) (because DirecTV has the best racing package) since the instant it was available in my neighborhood. Great speed and great uptime. If you use Google's DNS servers.

The ground crew put the drop in with a plow and plowed through sprinkler pipes in both yards. I didn't discover it til the following year after the ground hardened up. Then I discovered the drop was only 6" deep in the back yard when I severed the drop with a shovel while making improvements. Since the drop was not buried 18" they bought that fix.

Then Verizon sold out to Frontier.

Then I got a new TV box and it would not talk to the router/wireless, It is a MOCA modem/router/wireless AP. They said it was out of date and sent me a total POS router Actiontec. Required daily rebooting. Then after many calls and CS BS I insisted on a new router. (Frontier Branded) All good now.

Except the aux power does not charge the battery, so I have to rotate a charged battery to silence the alarm. Which is useless anyway as the FIOS system goes down on any power failure, even with a UPS on the router and MagicJack

Comcast is the worse evil, their uptime sucked and the modem required constant rebooting. They have profound CS BS.