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M2Pilot
M2Pilot Reader
3/6/10 8:50 a.m.

There's a joke that goes something like this. Kirby salesman comes to door. Homeowner tells him he's not interested because he's broke & attempts to close door. Salesman puts foot in door, pushes it open & enters the house. He then proceeds to dump a bag of horse manure on the carpet & tells the homeowner that if his vacuum won't completely clean the e36 M3 out of the carpet, he'll eat it. To which the homeowner responds, " I hope you've got a good appetite. I said I'm broke. The electric company cut off my power yesterday."

jrw1621
jrw1621 Dork
3/6/10 8:54 a.m.

Porky:
Yes I opened with something like; don’t feel bad, you got worked by pros. It could (and does) happen too many people but of course that does not fully take away the angry feelings this likely left her with.
I am there for her to help, she knows that.

As Donaldson says, she is the classic nice old lady who can get worked for the full $2,200. The paperwork was for something like a $1,400 purchase price but up to $2,200 after the million months of $60 per month.
As nedc said, it is not the machine that I dislike; it is the tactics and strong-arming. I am sure that everything they do is "legal" it just fails to be "ethical."

Speaking of legal here is how it works (and I am paraphrasing since the real paperwork is at her house.)
Just sign here and we will leave it with you for 3 day trial.
At the time this seems to be your only option to get them to leave. Once she signed they were out the door in seconds.
As you suspect, you have signed a purchase agreement.
The distributor (locally Trebor Distributing) must be notified in 3 days, by mail that you want to return the model.
In 3 days you do not have enough time to send certified mail and uncertified will result in no proof that you attempted to notify.
Upon receiving notification (un-provable) the company will return to your house in 20 days to gather the unit at no expense to you. The terms really focus on the fact that if they fail to pick it up within 20 days, you are free to keep it (see above about no proof that they have been notified.)
This would also serve as lead generation that the salesperson needs to revisit the customer for more strong-arming.
There is also in the terms a heavy sentence that items could be returned at customers own expense for shipping, insurance, freight and some other terms that made this process seem ultra cumbersome and maybe more effort than it is worth. I read through this as to mean that I personally have to drive it across town.

I placed the Kirby in the Volvo and headed to the local office. My intentions were to remain calm and attract more with honey than vinegar (I knew this would be tough.) The 30 yr old woman at the counter opened with that the unit would have to returned to the salesman and that she would help me get in contact with him. I countered with asking if that was the required method or preferred method - preferred. She tried to push for the 20 days. I told her I would not allow for follow up visit to my mother's home; that I was in from out of town and that I wanted to complete this today. After some resistance I clearly asked, "Will you assist me in finalizing this transaction today?" My attempt at using their own tactics of getting the "yes" answers flowing.

I asked what style receipt that I would be leaving with. Her first answer was that she would give me her business card. I demanded a receipt of closed account and acknowledgement of all pieces returned. The presentation to me earlier was that kind of thing has never been done. Strangely, it only took minutes to gain a signed written statement, on letterhead, of all items returned, account closed and no further payment or action required.

I made that visit with my mother present and I dressed in a sport coat. I was ready to get fully animated. I let out just enough of that "dick" vibe quickly and it did not have to go any further.

I advised my mother to keep that receipt for a long time and we placed it her little strong box safe when we got home. I insisted that she have no further correspondence with them (by phone or in person!)

I called the local BBB before acting. These local guys had 10 cases against them in the past 3 years. That earned them an A- grade. Real tough standards laid down by the BBB. As someone here pointed out it more seems that if you pay the BBB fee, the BBB will be more than happy to take it and call you a friend.

Thanks for the help and encouragement found here.

mad_machine
mad_machine SuperDork
3/6/10 9:10 a.m.

You can also pick up used kirbys from the dealer.. they usually repair them too. My parents had one.. it is still a nice vacuume

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess SuperDork
3/6/10 10:27 a.m.
I let out just enough of that "dick" vibe quickly and it did not have to go any further.

I call that "Level 1." Level 2 is so aggressive, other people in the room not involved in the conversation get uncomfortable. Level 3 involves swearing. There are 10 levels, but I've never had to go higher than 3. Can't say I didn't learn nothin' from bein' a surgeon.

DILYSI Dave
DILYSI Dave SuperDork
3/6/10 10:47 a.m.
Dr. Hess wrote:
I let out just enough of that "dick" vibe quickly and it did not have to go any further.
I call that "Level 1." Level 2 is so aggressive, other people in the room not involved in the conversation get uncomfortable. Level 3 involves swearing. There are 10 levels, but I've never had to go higher than 3. Can't say I didn't learn nothin' from bein' a surgeon.

My method of getting them to leave went from Level 2 to level 3 in the blink of an eye, with clear communication that we weren't going to bother with 4-9, and just skip straight to the part where he gets to have a vacuum cleaner surgically removed from his ass. It's amazing how quick one can go from a cocky pushy salesman to a cowering Bob Costas in less than 2 seconds.

donalson
donalson SuperDork
3/6/10 11:16 a.m.

side note... when I was doing carpet cleaning vacs where always a big topic... at a number of different things people had done tests and found that the best vac for picking up stuff was not one of the mega buck super zooty uber vacs but the $98 bissle bagless...

that being said... the best vacuum is one that gets used regularly... a vac that sits in the closet does no good.

anyway glad she was able to get it back... not that I wouldn't buy one... i'd just buy one used :)

pigeon
pigeon HalfDork
3/6/10 11:22 a.m.
ignorant wrote:
EastCoastMojo wrote: Dyson FTMFW! I love it when the swirling tornado of pet hair builds up enough static inside the plastic cannister that it causes a static lightning bolt to jump from the cannister to the grounding strip on the side of the machine. Awesomeness! Makes me want to vacuum in the dark.
I got one that is 3 years old. It has definetly lost suction and dyson won't fix.. I got suckered by their marketing.. Ohhh well.

Hmmm, I'm surprised. I just pulled the main canister out of my 3 year old dyson and washed it out and it works as good as new, but it was 90% as good as new before.

pigeon
pigeon HalfDork
3/6/10 11:38 a.m.

My MIL had a Kirby for 20 years, loved how it cleaned but when they built their retirement place - actually bigger than the place they raised 5 girls in - she decided that it was a big heavy unit for a 70 year old woman to push around. They went central vacuum and have been very happy.

My favorite vac sales experience was with the Rainbow water vac - uses a bowl of water as the filter. The sales technique was to dump a bag of fine dirt on my carpet, vacuum it with my current vac, then go over that same are with the Rainbow. Of course, since the Rainbow uses water you can't see the dirt, so they put a piece of cloth on an adapter in the line. Of course that cloth is the finest filter ever seen and traps all sorts of dirt. The Wife was ready to buy, I just shooed the sales guy out. I grabbed a piece of cheese cloth and did the same demonstration using the crappy little dirt devil portable vac and sure enough, that cloth trapped all sorts of dirt too. What a scam.

The Bissel bagless mentioned above is a copy of the original Dyson that everyone started producing the day the patent expired. When I got my Dyson I really was impressed by the amount of dirt it pulled out of my carpets.

rebelgtp
rebelgtp Dork
3/6/10 11:40 a.m.

I can remember watching the movie "American Outlaws" and there is this one scene where the railroad guys come to buy the farm. The momma says she will talk to god about it and closes her eyes and makes some small murmurs and then starts laughing a little. When she opens her eyes she smiles and makes the comment to her boys "The good lord says if we bury them outback no one will ever find them".

You know if you live even remotely in the country with a bit of property that does work.

EastCoastMojo
EastCoastMojo SuperDork
3/6/10 12:00 p.m.
ignorant wrote: I got one that is 3 years old. It has definetly lost suction and dyson won't fix..

I regularly will use the air compressor to blow the crap out of the center section of the cannister. Once or twice a year I will disassemble the cannister, (it comes apart easily-no tools needed) and wash it and the filter and reassemble once dry. Mine still works great! That center cestion can get really gunked up with particulate over time, I bet that's where the trouble is, although it is possible that the rubber seal between the cannister and the body has failed and you will notice dirt there if it has. Parts should be availbale though, and that would be an easy fix.

ignorant
ignorant SuperDork
3/6/10 2:41 p.m.
EastCoastMojo wrote:
ignorant wrote: I got one that is 3 years old. It has definetly lost suction and dyson won't fix..
I regularly will use the air compressor to blow the crap out of the center section of the cannister. Once or twice a year I will disassemble the cannister, (it comes apart easily-no tools needed) and wash it and the filter and reassemble once dry. Mine still works great! That center cestion can get really gunked up with particulate over time, I bet that's where the trouble is, although it is possible that the rubber seal between the cannister and the body has failed and you will notice dirt there if it has. Parts should be availbale though, and that would be an easy fix.

I just did that and it made it much better. The carpet I have is very low pile and I think thats what kills it.

donalson
donalson SuperDork
3/6/10 2:45 p.m.

for pile set it to the highest setting you can to where it JUST starts hitting the carpet... best to start high then lower... you'll hear the change in sound...

forward stroke bounces dirt up backward actually pulls it into the vac... high traffic areas need more strokes...

and you can do the "i'll vac" after you vac and always pick something up... just the nature of cleaning what you walk on...

EastCoastMojo
EastCoastMojo SuperDork
3/6/10 2:51 p.m.
ignorant wrote: I just did that and it made it much better.

Yay!

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