Lamigra! Lamigra!!

I am actually glad to read this story.
BIRMINGHAM, Alabama (AP) — Hispanic students have started vanishing from Alabama public schools in the wake of a court ruling that upheld the state's tough new law cracking down on illegal immigration. Education officials say scores of immigrant families have withdrawn their children from classes or kept them home this week, afraid that sending the kids to school would draw attention from authorities. There are no precise statewide numbers. But several districts with large immigrant enrollments — from small towns to large urban districts — reported a sudden exodus of children of Hispanic parents, some of whom told officials they planned to leave the state to avoid trouble with the law, which requires schools to check students' immigration status. The anxiety has become so intense that the superintendent in one of the state's largest cities, Huntsville, went on a Spanish-language television show Thursday to try to calm widespread worries. "In the case of this law, our students do not have anything to fear," Casey Wardynski said in halting Spanish. He urged families to send students to class and explained that the state is only trying to compile statistics. Police, he insisted, were not getting involved in schools. Victor Palafox graduated from a high school in suburban Birmingham last year and has lived in the United States without documentation since age 6, when his parents brought him and his brother here from Mexico. "Younger students are watching their lives taken from their hands," said Palafox, whose family is staying put. In Montgomery County, more than 200 Hispanic students were absent the morning after the judge's Wednesday ruling. A handful withdrew."

Heck, I say deport the 200 that weren't there.

Yeah, I know, we are all immigrants, well, not the ones that are forced to live on crappy land in poverty at least. But, now there are rules in place. Follow them or go home.

Oh, and learn to speak English! If I moved to a foreign land, I'd learn to to speak the language.

This is a HUGE issue in RI right now. The governor is trying to force a bill through that allows illegals to go to college for in-state rates and allows them to get drivers licenses.

I consider myself a moderate liberal and I consider it ridiculous.

...and I agree on the English thing. I always say--if I moved to France or Japan, I'd have a working knowledge of the respective languages before I went.

Well since the U.S. doesn't have an official language you can't require them to learn English. The idea of an official language was voted down in the 80's as being superfluous since everyone KNEW we all spoke English.

I don't understand why citizenship isn't checked on all kids? It is in other countries.

I don't know why you don't have to prove you are eligible to receive any "free" service that is for citizens. That's kinda like a ticket to get in. If you go to a movie theater they won't let you into the auditorium without a ticket. They'll let you mingle in the lobby and buy the overpriced food, but no tickee, no laundry. That's pretty basic.

I have seen the argument that the kids shouldn't suffer for the parent's misteaks, but maybe the free education (and other things) is why the parents are making these "misteaks". The reward exceeds the penalty.

Naer-do-well Spitzer tried in New York what the RI Gov is trying, he got slammed down even though we have a pretty large hispanic population.

I work with a woman that jumped through all the hoops and paid all the bills to be here legally, she gets livid when this comes up.

Dan

914Driver wrote: Naer-do-well Spitzer tried in New York what the RI Gov is trying, he got slammed down even though we have a pretty large hispanic population. I work with a woman that jumped through all the hoops and paid all the bills to be here legally, she gets livid when this comes up. Dan

Yeah, why bother to do it legally if you get all or most of the bennies for free.

DrBoost wrote: Yeah, I know, we are all immigrants, well, not the ones that are forced to live on crappy land in poverty at least. But, now there are rules in place. Follow them or go home. Oh, and learn to speak English! If I moved to a foreign land, I'd learn to to speak the language.

Most Hispanic immigrants are fully fluent in English by the second generation... I have read that this is much, much faster than immigrants of different lineages in our nation's past.

What is the solution? Ship the families off? Split them up and put the parents in jail? I don't have an answer to this. Creating an even larger percentage of uneducated, unhirable adults probably won't benefit our nation in the long run. Maybe we can make purchasing food without documentation illegal too, so that going back home to the favela will look like the easy life compared to living in the US.

The solution is, if you are caught here, you get deported. There are procedures in place to gain legal entry, follow them or else. And the immigrants are fluent by the second generation? Really? I'm sure some are, but either way, most (from my experience) aren't.
When I'm emperor, you'd need to read and write at at least the 5th grade to even be able to get probationary status. You have 180 days after that to get to 8th grade, and 12 months after that to be at 12th. 24 months after the application is approved you are banned from gubment hand-outs for 10 years and if you do something that would land you in jail, you are deported.
There are way too many folks wanting to get in here to let riff-raff in and screw things up. Oh, and armed men and women at the border. Rubber bullet the first time, after that all bets are off.

And most importantly, I would NEVER let anyone like me on his soapbox

Can we hold our own to the same standards while we're at it?

Most Hispanic immigrants are fully fluent in English by the second generation... I have read that this is much, much faster than immigrants of different lineages in our nation's past.

Yup.

They live in Alabama. Isn't that punishment enough?

MitchellC wrote: Most Hispanic immigrants are fully fluent in English by the second generation... I have read that this is much, much faster than immigrants of different lineages in our nation's past.

Interesting bit of trivia: the density of Spanish-only speakers is not the biggest population of non-English speakers this country has ever seen. In the mid-late 1800's huge numbers of Germans immigrated to the U.S. German speakers were a much larger portion of the population then than hispanics are now.

The oldest brewing school in the U.S. taught all classes in German when it first started and continued to for quite a while.

I know legal immigrants who get upset at all these people getting a free pass.

No, we are not all immigrants. Most are merely beneficiaries of brave ancestors who made the difficult decision to leave their places of origin for a better life, and then put in the sweat and effort to actually make it happen. But I suppose everyone needs something to be proud of.

I am not saying illegal immigration is good but I really want to know who is going to work the fields in Alabama since well most people are too damn lazy to do that work.

MitchellC wrote: Most Hispanic immigrants are fully fluent in English by the second generation... I have read that this is much, much faster than immigrants of different lineages in our nation's past.

The Irish beg to differ.

grpb wrote: No, we are not all immigrants. Most are merely beneficiaries of brave ancestors who made the difficult decision to leave their places of origin for a better life, and then put in the sweat and effort to actually make it happen. But I suppose everyone needs something to be proud of.

I don't say "we are all immigrants" so I can be proud. I also know by definition I am not, and I bet few on this board aren't either. The point is though, that's how most of us got here.

I used to consider myself a liberal, but I guess as you get older that's one of the things that changes.

In the '60s we were told we shouldn't punish certain people because they were brought up in poverty and therefore(?) they needed to be cut some slack when it came to law enforcement. Now, "we" are saying that because you grew up in a country that is not as "advantaged" as the U.S., we should give you a pass if you chose to come here in violation of certain laws.

As far as the argument that illegal immigrants are needed to do some of the work that citizens won't do....I can't COMPLETELY agree. I realize food would cost A LOT more than it does now if the folks working the fields were paid a decent wage, but someone who thinks an illegal immigrant wouldn't work at McD's or W-M instead of working hours bent over in a dirty field if they could get a job at McD's or W-M is on drugs. The last two jobs I got I had to show what I felt was A LOT of documentation that I was a legal U.S. citizen...even tho I'm a military retiree. Many illegal immigrants either are hired with forged documentation or their employers aren't bothering to really check their immigration status.

93EXCivic wrote: I am not saying illegal immigration is good but I really want to know who is going to work the fields in Alabama since well most people are too damn lazy to do that work.

This is an interesting point. The reason why schools are traditionally closed for the summer is because in a long gone era of US history, many, if not most, children spent their summers working on farms and other agricultural endeavors. In some communities (like Maine) that had important harvests like potatoes that matured late, they would actually close the schools for a week to get as many hands as possible out in the fields.

It would probably do this nation a lot of good to get back in touch with our agricultural past, but I honestly can't see it happening.

BTW I forgot to mention that I have actually worked on a farm for several summers doing actual farm labor, including the menial stuff that is generally done by immigrants today.

I'm of two minds on this, as there's two principles in conflict here. One, you should follow the rules for coming to this country. Two, your duties toward your children include giving them a proper education. I don't like to see a law that encourages people who have already broken one principle to break another one. So I'd prefer a crackdown on people who give illegal immigrants jobs; that can send the same "you're not welcome without a green card" message. The guys whose business model includes hiring illegals so they can pay crappy wages and abuse their workforce are at least as big a problem as the people they hire, and often a bigger one.

MadScientistMatt wrote: I'm of two minds on this, as there's two principles in conflict here. One, you should follow the rules for coming to this country. Two, your duties toward your children include giving them a proper education. I don't like to see a law that encourages people who have already broken one principle to break another one. So I'd prefer a crackdown on people who give illegal immigrants jobs; that can send the same "you're not welcome without a green card" message. The guys whose business model includes hiring illegals so they can pay crappy wages and abuse their workforce are at least as big a problem as the people they hire, and often a bigger one.

I was just writing something very similar and you beat me to it. I would like add one very important thing. The people knowingly and intentionally hiring undocumented workers is not limited to farmers and fly by night contractors. There are some very large and politically influential corporations doing it to.

HappyAndy wrote: I was just writing something very similar and you beat me to it. I would like add one very important thing. The people knowingly and intentionally hiring undocumented workers is not limited to farmers and fly by night contractors. There are some very large and politically influential corporations doing it to.

No kidding. While this may fall under the category of "farmers," we had Tyson busted here in Georgia a few years ago when a huge chicken butchering factory was found to be using coyotes to smuggle in workers. IIRC, they couldn't make charges stick for anyone higher than the management of that factory, but you've got to figure the higher-ups were at least guilty of creating a corporate culture where a factory management places cost cutting above legal requirements.

Hang on...

You mistakingly assume the companies are involved directly in the hire of illegals.

Generally, they are not.

There are middle men who are completely legit (business licenses, US citizenship, 1099's, the works) who provide labor (and ALL the correct paperwork) to many, many employers. To most construction contractors, for example, it is a completely legitimate subcontractor business deal, in keeping with all applicable laws.

It's generally the middle man doing the illegalities, not the end-line companies.

So, the answer is "bust the middle man", right? Well, not really. He functions very much like a drug dealer. He operates an incredibly lucrative business with enormous risks, and he has put away a huge amount of cash (as well as his villa in another country) just in case everything goes sour.

He is essentially like the "Coyotes" (human trafficking brokers who smuggle people across the boarders). Busting him will do no good.

The only solution is going to have to include some VERY unpopular methods, including the possibility of deporting families. If we are not OK with that, then there will be NO solution to the problem.

From my personal experience I have realized a few things.

1. We don't have the money and law enforcement manpower to deport any significant amount of the illegal aliens in this country. We also don't have the money to build a wall high enough, trench deep enough, or buy enough moat alligators to keep desperate people out of our country.

2. Mexico is by and large a poverty stricken, violent, drug/cartel infested, and corrupt E36 M3 hole where often you cannot honestly feed your family.

3. Children of diplomats are not automatically entitled to citizenship if they are born in this country. I can't believe that the children of illegal aliens are entitled to citizenship if they are born here? Have you tried to enroll your kids in another school district without an address in that district? If illegal aliens want to enroll their kids here, I say fine, but they will need to pay tuition.

4. We have had streamlined worker visa programs in the past. We could easily have a comparable program today with manadatory extra payroll deductions for insurance, schools, social services and etc. If the government of Mexico is involved in the visa process in any way it will become a corruption ridden fiasco.

5. If someone wants to become an American citizen they need to learn English. If they are just here to work and make some money who cares what language they speak.

HappyAndy wrote: ...In some communities (like Maine) that had important harvests like potatoes that matured late, they would actually close the schools for a week to get as many hands as possible out in the fields...

This still happens in Northern Maine.