I moved from FL to CO and my wife and 5 year old son want to do more camping and off-roading. She doesn't like large vehicles and I'm comfortable wrenching on Toyotas and Jeeps but am open to other suggestions. We will be keeping the Prius as a DD, but want something that can drive for a couple of hours, get us to a camp site at the end of a primitive road, and then home again reliably and comfortably.
Budget 20k, WWGRMD?
Oh, $20k changes the answer. Before knowing that my answers were going to be...
Then on a more serious note for a budget answer was going to be a Suzuki XL-7. All the Suzukis are very capable vehicles and the XL-7 is the stretch version. Remove the comical 3rd row seat but gain additional functional space.
I think the big three on that budget and use case are the Jeep Wrangler, Toyota 4Runner and Nissan XTerra.
For compact options the XL-7/Vitara or Sidekick (similar 2-door vehicle) and Wrangler are good choices. The 4Runner is a good offroad vehicle but it's definitely large. Xterra is a good choice as well.
If you want something you can camp as a couple in I would go with a pickup with either a Go Fast Camper or a Flippac topper.
If it was just me I would get a Wrangler with an Ursa Minor camper.
How primitive a road? Lots of great campsites on the end of dirt roads that can be reached by non-extreme vehicles. Our Vanagon can get us happily off the beaten path but obviously not everywhere. Depends on how much you want the drive to be part of the experience, or if it's mostly about the destination.
What do you require whilst camping? Sleeping in your vehicle or a tent? On-board toilet? Kitchen facilities?
If you're good with tents and camp stoves and chemica toilets, a mostly stock 4Runner is the way. Or the Nissan equivalent, which is cheaper. If you want to sleep on/in your vehicle, a Tacoma with a roof tent.
If it's just the basic BLM roads, most vehicles can do them even in 2WD no problem if it is dry. Mountain pass stuff, high clearance required trails, etc. you'll want to be a little more picky, but I've been blown away by how many places my mostly-stock Suburban has gotten me.
I am a big fan of my 4Runner. Just got back from the Ouray/Silverton area a few weeks ago. There were 2 -4Runners and 2 FJs in the group. Either would be great! There are a few Lexus GXs I have seen that have a few mods that perform equally as well. Although the Jeeps are incredibly capable, I am not a fan of their reliability.
I bought a 4-Runner after it came off lease with 30k miles. It had three pedals and we loved it. Someone more fluent in 4WD can help, but my experience is some with 4WD are actually two 2WD axles, better than one wheel peel, but 4 spinners is better. If what you seek is not a DD, I'd be tempted to go old school with lockers and 2 posi axles. For anything tougher than a fire road, think about a lift.
It's unlikely you'll need anything more than some ground clearance. My bone stock 2000 Grand Cherokee (open diffs front and rear, iirc) is remarkably capable. Any trail that would need more may not be compatible with a 5 year old passenger unless they particularly dig off-roading.
Many thanks all!
Installing a lift on the prius was my first thought, but the NPS says we need a 4WD to go where DW and kiddo want to go. From reading I think that means something with a central locker, but probably not front or rear lockers. Example here: https://www.nps.gov/grsa/planyourvisit/medano-pass-road.htm
We do tent camping with a bulky pad; wrangler is out but I'll add the Cherokee and classic 4runner to the list.
Prices for GX 470/460s can be better than a 4 runner. They are capable overlanders.
Full time 4WD is nice in the winter when you'll encounter patchy snow and ice. For getting into the back country you need high clearance, traction and gears, you don't need a ton of power or lots of fancy aftermarket stuff if you drive well. I love Toyotas myself, my current 2001 Tacoma TRD pickup (part-time 4WD w/ electric rear locker) has 271K miles and has been over every 4WD trail in the San Juan Mountains (except Poughkeepsie Gulch, and that's by choice, not capability). The secret is low range for the rough, loose or steep stuff, and careful driving - learn the lines, just like a 4 mph autocross. Other similar vehicles will also work well. Probably the best vehicle I've had up here was a 1999 Isuzu Amigo V6 - shortish wheelbase, 200 hp, very rugged, Dana 44 limited slip, excellent gearing and the easiest vehicle I ever lifted, with coil springs our back and torsion bars up front. My Tacoma is dead stock and has never had a problem on the trail. Obviously the same should apply to a 4runner. I've only needed the locker once, to help turn around in my driveway after a 20" snow dump, never used it on the trail yet.
I had a lifted Jeep Liberty for a while (PITA to do the front end lift) and it worked great for the first 100K miles - then everything started to fail so I traded it for a Subaru Forester DD and have used the Tacoma for anything serious ever since. Lots of vehicles will work well for you, the single most important thing in the back country is the driver.
CrustyRedXpress said:Many thanks all!
Installing a lift on the prius was my first thought, but the NPS says we need a 4WD to go where DW and kiddo want to go. From reading I think that means something with a central locker, but probably not front or rear lockers. Example here: https://www.nps.gov/grsa/planyourvisit/medano-pass-road.htm
We do tent camping with a bulky pad; wrangler is out but I'll add the Cherokee and classic 4runner to the list.
Not CO but just west of you in UT. How does the National Park Service and BLM tell you they don't want you to drive a Subaru or RAV4 on the trail?
I'm enjoying my 2011 Xterra so far. The pro-4x has a rear e-locker and can be had for under $20k easy. They also have a 6-speed option if that's something you want. Pre-2010 automatic models can have an issue with the transmission cooler in the radiator leaking and destroying the transmission. New radiator fixes it.
The heater core inlet and outlet are the other know failure point. Nissan decided to use plastic pieces there, so they get brittle with age and heat cycles. Metal replacements are available from Rock Auto and solve the problem forever. One of the rare cases where the Dorman part is preferred to the OEM ones.
I like how the Xterra drives better than the 5th Gen 4runners. Better power and don't feel as soft. 33s (285/75-16) fit with a little heat gun love the front fender liners. No trimmimg required. Otherwise the ride isn't as good as a 4runner due to the rear leaf springs. Those leafs are also a little weak and you'll want a lift to carry much of anything in the back.
914Driver said:I bought a 4-Runner after it came off lease with 30k miles. It had three pedals and we loved it. Someone more fluent in 4WD can help, but my experience is some with 4WD are actually two 2WD axles, better than one wheel peel, but 4 spinners is better. If what you seek is not a DD, I'd be tempted to go old school with lockers and 2 posi axles. For anything tougher than a fire road, think about a lift.
I'm biased as all gittup. But let me second this one.
Any 4-cyl, 5spd, 4-Runner. I've been running one ever since my kids were born.
Here are a few threads documenting our adventures:
Africa Rally (Budapest to Bamako)
I'm sure it'd benefit from lockers and other mods, but even in stock trim this thing has proven itself to be way more capable than anything on paper would suggest. My only suggestion would be to go FI over carb as the truck is able to climb inclines steep enough to spill the bowl on a carbed engine.
3rd Gen Montero? I don't know why these always get overlooked
In reply to Scott_H :
This. Confirm whether AWD will be acceptable as opposed to 4WD, as AWD opens up a variety of options from SX4s, Prii, Elements, Rav-rvs, haldex volvos, etc.
If 4wd is required, I'd get a $10k Cayenne and keep the remaining 10k for tools, parts and maintenance.
Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:If 4wd is required, I'd get a $10k Cayenne and keep the remaining 10k for tools, parts and maintenance.
excellent recommendation. Plenty capable for backcountry exploration, way better to drive on the roads (especially snowy/icy roads) than a traditional part-time 4wd vehicle, and more fun than CUVs.
I started out exploring in a van. Turning around every time the road got a little rough or sloppy got old really fast so I bought a Suzuki Samurai. It would go anywhere.
In the world of small, I'd consider a Suzuki but hauling gear is going to mean loading it to the rafters and driving it any distance is a chore. They are super capable and make great day rig that you tow to the trailhead but living out of one is a challenge in minimalism. BTDT.
Out west, I'd probably pass on the CUVs. Lots of fragile bits to break on rocks and such. I have used my Touareg for limited off-roading. Even here in the south, it drags the ground on a regular basis and the first thing to hit the ground is oil pans and gear cases. They don't have the ground clearance for getting off the beaten path. While they will get you down a dirt road without issue, you are going to be turning around when things start to get interesting. BTDT. Skid plates are available but they are expensive. This goes for the Honda Ridgeline as well. Pretty capable with lots of parts hanging low underneath. The other issue for these is ride quality which is great on the street and only fair off-road.
The Cherokee is a decent choice. Not too large. Very capable. Enough ground clearance to keep the important bits off the rocks. It's the perfect size for two. It's not my preference for long-haul driving. 2-3 hours is fine, 5-8 hours is more time than I want to drive it. BDTD. Mine had a locking rear diff and a LSD front. It took me anywhere I wanted to go. Add a set of Fox shocks and it rides like a dream in the dirt.
My current vehicle of choice is a mid-size truck. Seating for 4. All the gear goes in the back which makes traveling much more pleasant. Personally, I refuse to pay the Toyota tax for vehicles that aren't really any more reliable, so I drive a GM. Get the off-road package that comes with the skid plates and locking diffs. The H3T I drive is AWD with locking center, front, and rear diffs. It will go almost anywhere without using parts-shattering momentum to bounce over the tough spots. The Colorado is basically the same truck. Get a Z71 or similar.
In your budget, you should be able to buy any of these in great condition and have money left over.
Lived in Colorado for 20 years now, ride my dirtbike on all the passes around here. With the exception of the gnarlier passes, a subaru wagon will get you up most of them and definitely out any forest fire road. What do you intend to do and how much truck do you need? There's a big difference between a soft roader like a 4Runner or GX470/460 vs something like a Jeep Rubicon that has all the locking diffs...
In reply to docwyte :
I wouldn't call the 4Runner a "soft roader", that term is usually used to refer to the CUVs that depend on traction control more than 4WD and suspension articulation. Not gonna argue that a fully locked Wrangler is better, but 4Runners and their ilk will go much further than, say, a CX5 or CRV. Most of the advantage the aforementioned Rubicon has is in the front and rear diffs. Most of my CO/UT wheeling was in a truck with open diffs at each end.
If most of the camping is done in a tent, you've got a huge range of vehicular options and as long as you stay away from the CUVs and stick with 4WD you'll be able to get just about anywhere you want. You might not be able to take the toughest route to get there, but that's okay. Given the budget, you'll also be able to get something pretty nice.
I have a 3rd gen 4Runner and I wouldn't call it a softrider by any definition. Maybe the latest ones are, but a 4Runner is what I'd be looking at. We did many Phase I Assessments on cell tower site that were located on mountain tops, and the tower owner's usually drove 4Runners.
In reply to thatsnowinnebago :
I was going to say the same thing. My 2011 Xterra took me all over Colorado and Utah with nothing more than a good set of tires. I put better armor on it just to be safe and honestly never even hit it. The only negative is the hitch did cause some occasional issues on approach in extreme cases.
Power to all four wheels, tough tires, and skid plates.
With those three things you'll go just about anywhere out here.
- Some roads are littered with sharp rock that'll cut normal passenger tires.
- I've seen AWD Subarus do better in sandy conditions then 2WD UTVs.
- Skid plates will keep you from punching a hole in an oil or transmission pan.
I miss my All-Manual 98 Tacoma SR5. Great little truck, but not for a family. My 06 Tundra Crew Cab continues to impress, even as it slowly becomes a rattly mess.
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