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bluej
bluej UberDork
5/15/19 12:58 p.m.
codrus said:

Maybe there's an effect, and if CBD oil were cheap, easy to get, harmless, and lacking in legal or other consequences then there wouldn't be any reason not to give it a try.  It's not though, so personally I wouldn't risk it.

 

Sorry, those statements aren't all correct. As Jav said, CBD is federally legal. It is also relatively easy to get. I am not aware of any harmful side effects, but that doesn't mean there aren't any.

In terms of effect, I tried some on vacation in Tahoe earlier this year, and found it to be relaxing and stress relieving, and helpful falling asleep when I had a mild cold. I then tried some from a different source last month with very minimal effect. I found that frustrating of course. The tahoe source was a legal marijuana dispensary (Nevada side of the lake), while the more recent was supposed to be a higher quality/potency product from a vap/cbd shop. Both were vape oil.

Based on my initial experience, I was hoping it would be a healthier replacement to the drink or two in the evenings after a stressful day of work. I'd welcome any thoughts from those here on what might have been the difference between the two times. 

Toebra
Toebra Dork
5/15/19 1:08 p.m.

uh, most of the tox screens test for "Cannabinoids" not CBD or THC.  CBD and THC are both cannabinoids and I know people who have had a drug screen come back positive after using CBD oil and they were not smoking pot.

 

In my experience, CBD oil is effective for neuropathic and arthritic pain.

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
5/15/19 1:19 p.m.

In reply to bluej :

Look at the CBD percentage in the oil of both products. In my experience, most Vape shop CBD oils are not as effective as the medical-grade stuff.

failboat
failboat UberDork
5/15/19 1:53 p.m.

Following. Im always interested in reading about the CBD options but my UC lately has been mostly under control (thank God) so I haven't ever had a reason to look much into it.  But I have had things get bad enough to keep me out of work and lay me up in the hospital for a few days (and short term disability for 2 months) so I know how bad it can be. I hope you can find relief soon.

 

Any minor flares I get lately are almost always when I have too much stress and anxiety at work.  Im trying to leverage my experience with the company into a different position that will pass some of that responsibility along to someone else. 

Mndsm
Mndsm MegaDork
5/15/19 4:40 p.m.

Following with interest. I like to sleep. 

warpedredneck
warpedredneck Reader
5/15/19 6:19 p.m.

3 drops of cbd in my morning coffee and 3 drops in my afternoon coffee, it has allowed me to sleep 7 hours a night (up from 1 1/2). 

So  its working well for me.

codrus
codrus UberDork
5/15/19 6:30 p.m.
Justjim75 said:

In reply to codrus :

what is your area of expertise?  im curious because you are in the minority making these statements (in this thread) and i have 7 herniated discs with up to 80% impingement on some very important nerves and have found relief in the use of some of the products and methods mentioned above.  Way more than the meds i have been prescribed and i have a very technical job for a global corporation

I am a software engineer, I have no formal medical training of any kind.  I do, however, have Crohn's disease (a similar condition to ulcerative colitis) and so I have a fair bit of layman's knowledge on treatments related to inflammatory bowel disease (a category that includes both UC and Crohn's as well as some other conditions).

To be clear, I'm not saying CBD doesn't work for you.  If it does, that's great.  What I'm saying is that "it works for me" is an anecdote -- it's one piece of information that should not be presumed to be generally applicable to other people without a great deal more scientific rigor. Unfortunately, the "War on Drugs" has prevented proper medical research studies on the effects of CBD and other marijuana-derived products, so that rigor basically doesn't exist at this time.

Also, ulcerative colitis is a totally different condition than herniated discs, and the applicability of a particular medication to one condition doesn't say anything about another.  UC is s a major auto-immune disease with some very serious consequences, and not something to screw around with.  Treatment for it is not just about relieving pain and discomfort, but also about allowing the bowel to heal the damage that the disease has caused and preventing other very serious complications from showing up.

From his posts later in the thread, it is now apparent that rustybugkiller was not contemplating using CBD in place of his normal UC medication, but that wasn't obvious at the time.  As stupid as it may seem, there are people who do things just like that (this is basically why Steve Jobs died from the only kind of pancreatic cancer that is actually treatable).  There are people who have told me to ditch the "toxic", "poisonous" medications I take (which are likely the only reason I'm alive at this point) in favor of fad-of-the-month health-craze BS.  It's possible I may be a little touchy about it. :)

Supplementing UC medication with CBD is less worrying than replacing, but still not entirely worry-free.  Many drugs interact with each other, and when you're taking an immune-system related medication like some of those that may be prescribed for UC you need to careful with what else you introduce into your system.  CBD is not be a prescription drug, but it's either biologically active (in which case it can potentially interact with other drugs) or it's not (in which case it's snake oil).  It's something to consult with one's doctor about.

Even if there are no medical side effects, the possiblity of a failed drug test (which is what I meant by 'legal consequences' in my first post) is a fairly significant downside to weigh against an upside of which there is little-to-no scientific evidence.  Worrying about failing drug test is not a great way to reduce the stress and anxiety in one's life!

 

codrus
codrus UberDork
5/15/19 6:41 p.m.
rustybugkiller said:

What does your gastroenterologist say?

I’m planning on asking my doctor about cbd today.

Sounds like a plan.  I'd believe him over any number of random yahoos on the internet. :)

FWIW, my layman's understanding is that Crohn's and UC are different diseases with different underlying causes and that one does not turn into the other.  While there are some people who end up with symptoms outside of the colon after surgery, from what I have read the presumption is that they actually had Crohn's all along and were misdiagnosed at the beginning.

 

 

failboat
failboat UberDork
5/15/19 7:52 p.m.

My understanding is crohns and colitis are very similar but crohns affects both the small and large intestine while colitis is limited to the large intestine only.  And that there is no actual consensus as to what the cause is for either of them.  Likely why there's no actual cure, just management of symptoms. 

Myself and my brother (8 yrs younger than me) both got diagnosed with UC around the same time.  He took a vacation and must have drank some bad water and got giardia and he was seriously berkeleyed up and in the hospital for months. Lost like 100lbs and body could not absorb nutrients. Kind of scary to see your normally 230lb brother all skin and bone and 130lb. After all that mess he had crohns.  Whether it was a misdiagnosis initially, who knows but i kind of doubt it.  You get a full on colonoscopy by a GI doctor to evaluate your symptoms internally when you start having the shall we say, external symptoms.   

codrus
codrus UberDork
5/15/19 9:08 p.m.
failboat said:

My understanding is crohns and colitis are very similar but crohns affects both the small and large intestine while colitis is limited to the large intestine only.  And that there is no actual consensus as to what the cause is for either of them.  Likely why there's no actual cure, just management of symptoms. 

From what I have read and been told by doctors, both of them are characterized by inflammation of the digestive tract, but Crohn's tends to be patchy and deep, whereas UC tends to be contiguous and more shallow.  There are apparently some differences only visible on the microscope as well.  There are some medications that work for both, but also some that are only effective for one or the other.  One bizarre thing is that while cigarette smoking makes Crohn's symptoms worse, it supposedly makes UC symptoms better (!).


That said, they are similar enough that there are some cases where they can't tell the difference until it later spreads to an area outside of the large intestine.  Incidentally, Crohn's isn't limited to just large & small, it can show up in the stomach, esophagus, etc.

dculberson
dculberson UltimaDork
5/15/19 9:16 p.m.

Inflammation seems to be a common thread in a lot of the things that CBD is claimed to be good for. Maybe it's just a really good anti-inflammatory agent??

stanger_missle
stanger_missle SuperDork
5/15/19 9:25 p.m.

Does CBD oil work for arthritis? Specifically osteoarthritis? I have OA in my right knee from an injury when I was active duty military. Nobody, including the VA, could figure out why I have pain. It's been 8 years and no definitive diagnosis despite multiple xrays and MRIs.

The only issue is that I have a clearance job as a DOD contractor. I'd like some relief but not at the risk of losing my clearance.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
5/15/19 9:27 p.m.
dculberson said:

Inflammation seems to be a common thread in a lot of the things that CBD is claimed to be good for. Maybe it's just a really good anti-inflammatory agent??

Anti-inflammatory and anti-convulsant properties (hence helping with seizures and chemo/radiation patients to actually be able to eat).

I'm really hoping to get my girlfriend her card for her RA, so I don't have to get it the old fashioned way, and eating it doesnt make you cough like crazy.

rustybugkiller
rustybugkiller HalfDork
5/15/19 10:40 p.m.

In reply to codrus :

Yes my original post was not clear in that I am following my doctors advice but it’s again up to me to decide to try an  immunosuppressant and a biologic  drug or surgery. The problem I have with taking more meds is nothing has worked for longer than one year and I’m back to a flare. I know my body pretty well by now and I feel my mental state of anxiety and depression are fighting against the very drugs that I am taking. As I said earlier, I’ve tried a number of  psychiatric drugs with no positive results. If you had asked me ten years ago if I would every consider taking cbd my my response would be hell no! I’ve never abused  alcohol or used drugs in my youth or adulthood. I’m probably the closed you’ll ever get to being a follow the rules type of person. However, UC has taken away my life to the point where sometimes I wonder why I bother. Surgery is it’s own dark hole as well. What kind of social life do you have with an  Ostomy bag especially a self-conscious person as my self. I haven’t been able to hold a job for very long due to the long recovery times during my flares. Surgery could have me out of work for up to a year. Cbd is just another option that I Must consider and the reason for this post. 

I truly appreciate everyone’s input positive or negative..

Bob

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
5/16/19 12:53 a.m.

Heck, CBD CANT be worse for side effects than an immunosuppressant.  You are suppressing your immune system.  It doesn’t take a lot of thought to figure out how that can go bad.

Justjim75
Justjim75 HalfDork
5/16/19 1:27 a.m.

In reply to codrus :

So you have no first hand experience with CBD and you are not a medical professional and wanted to give your opinion.  It's not helpful to blast a product as snake oil when you have no real data for or against it, just your own skepticism 

Justjim75
Justjim75 HalfDork
5/16/19 1:36 a.m.

In reply to rustybugkiller :

If you cant work it seems you have a perfect opportunity to give it a shot.  I know many people Ithat have used at least one of the strains, derivatives and methods related to hemp/weed and almost all would say it helps with anxiety.  

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
5/16/19 6:04 a.m.

How is quality regulated in the US? The explosion in availability has me concerned that there are corners being cut in a lot of cases. My skepticism isn't just with CBD, but with almost any supplements. 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
5/16/19 7:18 a.m.
aircooled said:

Heck, CBD CANT be worse for side effects than an immunosuppressant.  You are suppressing your immune system.  It doesn’t take a lot of thought to figure out how that can go bad.

Yep. My girlfriend is a healthy 35-year old (outside of RA) and after less than one year on biologics she ended up with a case of pneumonia so bad she was very close to going to the hospital. As in she back to her doc for the 3rd time in 4 days, for an extra shot and some other stuff, and he basically said, "If you aren't feeling any better in the morning, we are going to admit you to the hospital."

And as many of you who have been sick, sick parents, etc. The hospital is about the worst place for some who is autoimmune compromised AND has pneumonia. 

trucke
trucke SuperDork
5/16/19 8:58 a.m.

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

Unfortunately industry regulation is lagging behind and will continue for several years.  The CBD/Hemp products are considered 'dietary supplements' and currently fall under the FDA's 21 CFR Part 111 Dietary Supplements.  This regulation focuses on ingredients, manufacturing, and warehousing of products.  Under this part manufacturers are NOT allowed to make any disease cure claims.

One claim above stated that one product did not work the same as another.  This is where sticking with a regulated manufacturer with no FDA '483' citations or warning letters (available for public view on the FDA's website) will ensure you are purchasing a consistent product time-after-time.

rustybugkiller
rustybugkiller HalfDork
5/16/19 9:39 a.m.
aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
5/16/19 10:07 a.m.
mazdeuce - Seth said:

How is quality regulated in the US? The explosion in availability has me concerned that there are corners being cut in a lot of cases. My skepticism isn't just with CBD, but with almost any supplements. 

As noted, not much official, but lab testing seems to be a thing in the industry.  I have done a bit of snooping around because of this thread and there are at least a few review sites that tend to highlight if a product has been lab tested.  Here is an example one (as noted, there are others, no claim that this one is best or even correct):  https://www.remedyreview.com/reviews/

 

Spoolpigeon
Spoolpigeon PowerDork
5/16/19 11:43 a.m.

I’ve been super curious to try the stuff to see if it helps with my migraines. However, my employer does random drug screens and I cannot put my job at risk if there’s even a slight chance that stuff will show on a test. 

TJL
TJL Reader
5/16/19 1:00 p.m.

The industry has kinda self regulated. Some reputable folks do their own testing of various products and provide results. Usually reviews and such will help weed out the less scrupulous providers. But until its taken seriously and folks get over their phobias, it will probably remain the same. Buyer beware. 

chrispy
chrispy HalfDork
5/16/19 1:48 p.m.

To be 50 state legal, whole spectrum CBD, it must contain less than 0.3% THC.  Allegedly this isn't enough to cause a positive result on a drug test but the dispensaries I've been to have steered me towards isolate (0% thc) oil if there is a chance of a drug screen.

 

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