Learn Me: Dogs

I can't even believe I'm typing this. My wife and daughter (13) are getting slightly dog crazy. We have had cats for our entire marriage (20 years). I have always respected cats because they are essentially shiny happy people. I understand it. Dogs seem- forgive me- too stupid and loyal, for no good reason. Because humans in my opinion are essentially cats.  Dogs are probably too good for us. The idea of this post is that I pre-empt this crazy with an informed opinion of what type of dog is appropriate for us.

So. I'm hesitant, because of the maintenance. I don't relish the idea of picking up poop. I'm the exercise guy who will probably be taking rover out for a run, not the wife or daughter. The cat is - feed me, give me a scritch when I rub, and then don't berkeley with me. Again- respect. 

What is an appropriate race/style/breed of dog that doesn't bark too much, will go for a run, only E36 M3s skittles and rainbows, and is easy for first timers? I don't want a tiny dog. I don't want a large dog. I don't want to deal with medical issues. I should have just gotten a dog from micronesia when I was flying there in the Coast Guard, but that ship has sailed.

Please: learn me.

In reply to Teh E36 M3 :

Golden Retrievers are pretty easy first time dogs I'm told. Easy to train, pretty easy disposition.

I went with an Anatolian Shepherd dog for my first and second dog because I wanted something large enough to protect me in the woods and smart enough to not listen to me when he knew he was doing the right thing.

That is how I didn't get eaten by a bear and why my house didn't get burgled

You forgot a criteria, smart.  Nothing worse than a dumb dog

A young pit bull would fit your needs pretty well.  Everything negative you hear about them is a bad owner's fault, or media spin.

I am an expert, really I am.  Big dogs are usually easier to house break than small ones and their bark isn't shrill and piercing.  They also don't require as much exercise, thus better for small apartments.  Smart breeds are harder for new dog owners and if you aren't home much they are a terrible choice, they get bored and create mischief. Dogs with long coats require more maintenance that short ones, dogs that don't shed much need regular haircuts which can be expensive or difficult if they won't hold still. That said, if you have light colored furniture you don't want a black lab.  Speaking of Labs, a Lab mix from the humane shelter is a great starter dog, just know you need to give them plenty of their own things to chew on, and they dig holes.  

Crate train your dog.

CRATE TRAIN YOUR DOG, please.

JUST SAY NO!

Dogs are amazing and they are definitely too good for us.

But yes, they do require a lot of work and if you have a lifestyle that doesn't lend itself to having a dog... don't do it.

Most traits have their good and bad.  Justjim highlighted some good examples in his post.

You want a goldendoodle or some sort of poodle mix. They really are the best.

Don't underestimate the mongrel you find at the shelter. 

Also consider adopting a "retired" dog from the military, well trained, obedient and smart.

Get a non-shedding dog bread!

My current dog is non-shedding and ill never have a shedding dog again

My sister got a dog yesterday- 2nd one of these.  Wheaten Terrier.  Too cute.  
 

I wrote a response, then lost the whole thing before I posted. I'll try to recreate some of it.

Kudos for considering this carefully. I see a lot of impulse decisions.

Here's an article on buying a puppy. The link is to a website which will have to be the best source of information on the web when it comes to pets. Bookmark the website. There is so much bad information out there.

My personal preference is getting an adult pet. Puppies are a lot of work, and especially for a first dog owner, it's really easy to make a lot of mistakes. I also like mixed breed dogs.

Consider a greyhound. Their personalities are very similar to cats, in that they probably sleep 20 hours a day, and rest for three more.

They are super mellow dogs, typically. I've never known one that barked much at all, although there are exceptions to everything. Very quiet, very low key dogs. Usually sweet personalities. While many can, not every Greyhound can live with a cat, however. 

They have short haircoats, so shedding isn't as big of an issue. Greyhounds are the only breed that doesn't get hip dysplasia.

Now I'm going to be blunt, but I don't know how else to put it. If you don't want to deal with medical issues, get a plant.

Dogs are are a luxury item, and are expensive to own. You can manage that to a great degree by doing careful selection, not cutting corners on preventative care, and either saving for medical bills, or buying health insurance.

wearymicrobe said:

You want a goldendoodle or some sort of poodle mix. They really are the best.

They are. But the constant grooming and ear maintenance are kind of a pain.

Ours is wicked smart. Took some work to convince her she wasn’t smarter than us.

The other one is a labradog mix we got from a local shelter. Great dog. He came with a dose of separation anxiety, which was a pain in the butt to deal with until we got past the worst of it. So be aware that stuff like that can come with a rescue pup.

If you want a dog that acts like a cat and sheds even worse, get a Siberian Husky. But those of us who love them can have nothing else.

As you can see, there are about as many opinions on dog breeds as there are on cars. 

I have experience with Golden Retrievers (British and American), Labs, Golden Doodles, Labradoodles, German Wire Haired Pointers, Pit mixes, Samoyeds, Great Pyrenees, Great Danes, Dauschwinds, E36 M3zu's, and Cavalier King Charles. I have lived with all of the above with the exception of the doodles., E36 M3zu's, and Cavaliers. I, or people very close to me, have been involved with rescue organizations for Goldens, Pyrenees, and the Pointers.

Here is the thing: 99% of dogs are good dogs. The problem with dogs is usually the owner, not the dog. There are bad dogs, but they are few and far between. There are ill-suited breeds/owners. What is right for me is probably not right for you. And remember, all dogs are individuals. Like people. There can be a bad apple in a good family. 

For me? Here are my opinions: 

• Pit mixes are, to a certain extent, all the rage right now. I have known and loved them. I wouldn't own one if I had young kids unless I knew the dog before adopting. I have only anecdotal experience, but 2 out of the 7 I have known would not have been good with young kids. One of them was somewhat untrainable. Not a mean bone in its body, to humans, but it did not know its strength and it was not coordinated with a hard bite. I was bit by it, by accident, twice. THIS IS ONE DOG. But I just wouldn't risk it, with kids, at least for my first dog until I knew that my kids could handle it if it was crazy. I also am a weird person that likes long haired dogs more than short haired dogs. The shedding isn't more, it is more noticeable with long haired dogs - but easier to clean up. 
• Labs and Goldens. Very similar temperment, but slight differences. British Goldens are going to be calmer than Americans and Labs. Goldens are slightly goofier, and slightly calmer in my experience, but the difference is subtle. Both very loving, both very good with kids. I would personally go with the Golden. They need to be walked every day, and they need to be part of the family. 
• Great Danes are wonderful dogs, couch potatoes, but they're just TOO BIG. They sit on the furniture like a human. 
• Great Pyrenees are wonderful dogs. They are very stubborn, nearly untrainable, they bark a lot, they are escape artists, but they are the gentlest dog I've come across - almost as a rule I'd trust one with a baby (DON'T DO THIS), they're loyal, protective, and just excellent dogs. They may be bad with adults, but as a general rule they love kids. They're also huge, but unlike Dane's, it isn't TOO big. Milo is sitting next to me right now. At 13, he has outlived his life expectancy and every moment we get with him is a bonus. They're both an easy dog, in that you don't have to train them beyond how to walk on a leash and potty training - because you can't train them - but not recommended for an inexperienced dog owner just because they're kind of quirky. 
• Samoyeds are squirrely, cuddly, fun-loving dogs that are excellent for a family. I highly recommend them to folks who don't mind hair. 
• Dauschwunds are bossy, like a grumpy German Grandma. And their bark is shrill. I like them, but I wouldn't want to live with one again. 
• Shtizu's are annoying to me. 
• Cavaliers are good dogs, but kinda dumb. Probably my favorite small dog despite that. 
• German Wire Haired pointers are a hunting dog. They're a bundle of energy that does. not. stop. Good with a family, extremely trainable, but my brother walks his probably 6 miles a day. Short Haired pointers all seem to be inbred. This is an exaggeration, but their personalities are much more neurotic than the wired hairs. I would pass on the pointers myself, but if I did get one, I'd go with the wired hair.
• Doodles are often a lot like the labs/goldens, but they can be crazy. Try to find one that is at least 4 generations deep, by that point they've calmed down for whatever reason. 

Our next dog will be either a Golden, a Samoyed, or a Great Pyrenees. We'll probably adopt. We'll probably adopt one that is 7 or older. We've done that 4 times now. I like the older dogs, it is better for our life. YMMV. All of this is just my experience. I have friends and family that are getting each of the dogs that I've listed above again. If you get one that sheds, get a good vaccum - I recommend a cordless so that you vacuum every day, even if it isn't as good as a corded one. 

Anecdotal notes I have on dogs-

I am a cat person for the same reasons op is a cat person.  

If it's a little white dog, I want to kick it. Hard. Never met one of those I liked. 

The bigger the dog, the more mellow it seems. Great danes appear to be lazy as hell. Also, big. I like big dogs.

I have met one dog smaller than a cat in my life was wasn't absolutely neurotic. It was a cavalier kind charles poodle hybrid? berkeley if I know. Small, smart, mellow. Not for me, but i was ok with it.

The absolute best dog I have ever met- was some sort of heeler/shepherd mix my aunt had named buddy. He was a rescue? She found him? No idea. Had a berkeleyed up eye. Greatest dog ever. Super smart, and mellow too, which is highly unusual for a working dog. 

That being said I am not a professional at all. I like pets, I really enjoy cats, and most dogs. I have however found that ill-trained dogs are far more the bane of my life than E36 M3ty cats. 

https://www.facebook.com/plugins/video.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Ffacebook%2Fvideos%2F417527719232247%2F&width=500&show_text=false&height=281

maybe you can find one like this one

There are some good websites that help you choose a dog.

Edit: just checked my bookmarks, and they're all dead URLs, or I would have linked them.

Everyone has their favorites.  Border Collies and other herding dogs are really a great thing for some people.  I for one can't stand them.  WAY too much exercise needs for me.

I have owned Beagles, Bassetts, french bulldog, several chihuahuas, two pits, irish wolfhound, and a few other assorted mutts.  You need to find the right mixture of size and slobber.  The bigger they are, they are usually less needful of exercise, but they tend to do all the normal dog things with the same fervor regardless of size.  They will all want to sit in your lap.  Great if it's a Yorkie, not so much if it's a Dane.  They all slobber to some extent.  A chihuahua will drool wee little drops.  A St. Bernard will ooze 5 gallons of mucus-like slime every time you crinkle a potato chip bag.  It just depends on how much dog you can tolerate.

I am a strong believer in several things when it comes to dogs and choosing a companion that will make you happy. 

1) Don't get a puppy.  Puppies are cute and adorable and trip over their own feet making you laugh.  A) the honeymoon will soon be over and the cuteness gives way to real life.  B) I don't support the random proliferation of bringing new dogs into the world when there are so many homeless animals being put to sleep or living a horrible existence in a shelter.  C) You can't tell what the disposition of a puppy will be when it reaches adulthood.  My Bassett puppy began life like any normal adorable dog, but kinda turned into a douche as an adult.

2) Don't get a pure-bred or pedigreed dog unless you want to put up with health problems.  If you plan on dipping your feet into showing dogs, then yes, get an AKC registered boutique dog.  Dog breeds have been inbred and force-bred to hone specific phenotypes for human amusement.  Many breeds have specific health problems that plague their kind.  Unless you want to bring a dog into the world with the specific knowledge that they may live a horrifically painful life and/or you'll be saddled with intense vet bills to help it, get a mutt.  At least if you get a dog that looks and seems like 100% [insert breed], an AKC registered dog means that its lineage can be verified several generations back, which sounds good, but it isn't.  It means that there is a high likelihood that the genetic troubles known to that breed have been titrated, distilled, and concentrated.   If you get a German Shepherd-ish dog without the fancy title, it has a much lower chance of hip dysplasia and crippling pain than one that has been bred purely with other verified Shepherd stock.  The AKC has its heart in the right place, but generally, they serve (in my opinion) as a revenue/advertising stream at the expense of the health and proliferation of boutique animals that serve little or no purpose other than looking pretty on some ESPN off-season show.

3) If you meet a dog, it will act along a spectrum of responses to meeting you.  They are pretty telling.  A) won't come to you, runs, hides, barks, quivers.  This is the canine equivalent of paranoid schizophrenia with PTSD. Pass.  You'll never enjoy having friends over for dinner again. Every stimulus will be a debilitating, crippling, traumatizing experience for the dog.  They won't be happy, and you will be miserable. A rare number end up (just like some humans) snapping when they have just bloody had enough of being the fearful goth/emo kid that gets picked on.  B) excited to meet you, but tucks tail, pees, or slinks over and instantly turns over to expose their belly with their mouth mostly closed.  This is the equivalent of a doormat.  Spineless, afraid, Omega.  They will have trouble integrating into life unless it is monotonous and routine.  If they could talk, they would say "h- h- have you seen my stapler?"  A rare number of dogs like this end up fine because you can work to build their confidence. C) excited to meet you, tail wags, inquisitive sniffs and licks, maybe a little belly while the tail is still wagging and mouth open.  This is the winner.  Well adjusted, confident, but cautious.  Any dog that greets with confidence and a willingness to show submission is usually a winner.  They are the Tony Robbins' of the dog world.  It doesn't matter the situation, they are there to please you, and in the process it pleases themselves.  D) excited to meet you, jumps up, strong licking, maybe a bit mouthy.  Pass.  This is the equivalent of that person at a party that won't shut up, every story they have is better than yours, and their last experience on a yacht with a famous person just HAS to be told.  They are alpha.  You will never win, and in the process of trying to win, you'll just be making their lives miserable.  Dogs aren't like people in that they can't learn that their behaviors are causing their own unhappiness.  All they know is that their instinctive brain told them to eat the peas in the trash can, and no amount of scolding, beating, or berating will un-do that instinct.  At best, you can berate the behavior out of them, but you can't ever teach them the reason why they shouldn't have that instinct.  All you will be able to do is make their lives miserable in an attempt to make them conform to YOUR learned behaviors.

If you have a treat, you have a wonderful tool to help you as well.  First, it will tell you how food-driven they are.  Highly food-driven dogs can be as annoying as the selfish kid.  Once they know you have a treat, how do they react?  Do they try to nudge it out of your hand like they'll starve without it?  Do they sit and look back and forth between your face and your hand?  Then, once you give it to them, do they have a gentle mouth, or does half of your hand go down their throat?  I think you can derive which of those things is the preferable trait.

There is no real advice I can give you on breeds since any breed can fall into any of those categories.  Size does matter though.  I had a chihuahua that was a borderline D, but she was so small that any time she was a jerk, it was just cute.  You're going to threaten me with a mouth that won't even wrap around my finger?  That's adorable.  

Chihuahuas and some other smaller breeds can seem to possess more than one personality type.  The chihuahua I just mentioned was kind of a jerk, but at the first sign of discipline, she was a complete B.

The Pit I currently have is a total C.  She is amazing.  Happy, calm to the point of sedate, yet eager to run and play.  She has single-handedly taught me that dogs are far more intelligent than we give them credit for.  I swear she can communicate better than my ex wife.  She knows she's not allowed on the couch without the blanket covering the cushions.  She will straight up walk over to the couch, look at the blanket on the floor, then the couch, then me.  If I don't notice, she'll make a slight verbalization, then repeat the three things.  If she wants to go outside, she looks at me, then the door.  She's brilliant.

One additional thing I'll mention, the King Charles cavalier spaniel has 100% penetration of the gene for heart failure. This means that there's no way to breed it out, since every dog of this breed has it.

It doesn't mean they'll all die of heart failure, since some of them will die of something else first. It's too bad, they're often really nice dogs.

Right now I have a 15 year old Alaskan Malamute who flat out refuses to die. He is the toughest dog I have ever had, and in 30 years of rescuing Northern Breeds through four different groups I have had many. I thought he was a goner last week when he fell and couldn't get up again the urinated and defecated all over himself. He spent 45 minutes trying to pull himself up again while I made arrangements for that final trip to the vet. Suddenly he just pushed himself up and walked right out the back door and kept walking until he regained his balance again. I fed him and cleaned him up and let him live another day. My rescue group got him about 12 years ago after animal control found him in the dog park with a broken front leg. Nobody knows how long he was there, who dumped him there or how much pain he endured before they found him and took him to the pound. The first vet we talked to offered to amputate his front leg. Instead we did a fundraiser, took him to the Dallas Veterinary Surgical Center and they rebuilt his leg. He probably has more metal in him than my Miata. After 8 other foster homes he immediately bonded with me by climbing into bed next to me, then taking charge of my pack of huskies. We named him Rocky after his strength and desire to survive. 

All  these years later he is still fighting age and time itself to keep going. He is truly an amazing dog. I have never seen a dog like him. His strength. His dignity. His determination. I don't know if all Alaskan Malamutes are like him, but I know his time is short, and I will cry when he loses his final battle.

I grew up with dogs (pure bred huskies way too much work) and love them. I tend to find a shelter puppy I like and go from there. My heeler/lab mix has been a great dog. Friendly with everyone and that was important for me. I live in town and my kids and there friends like to be in my house. She does require daily excersize and will chase a ball until she can't walk. Bewere though since she's part lancashire heeler she was estimated to be a 40lb dog. She weighs 90lbs
 

my wife's dog is another rescue, it's heeler and beagle and the worst dog I've ever had in my life. It's cute and loves to cuddle but it's anxiety problems pretty much make it use my house as a bathroom way too often. It pees when scared, when excited, whenever. 
 

whatever you do and most places in my area do it before or require it done is get your dog fixed. When they are in heat male dogs will pretty much do anything to get too them. Please don't get a dog if your going to ignore it and leave it outside all the time! 

We've had Bernese Mtn Dogs up until our newest dog.

They're great dogs. Smart, friendly, loyal couch potatoes and are great with kids. My last Bernese, Gus was the best dog I've ever had. I had to say goodbye to him in November last year. He only managed 8 years. It's the price you pay for having such a great buddy.

We still have a Bernese, my wife's dog, Ruxton. He's one of Gus' pups and is a very good boy too.

When I got a new dog, I couldn't have the same breed again because I was always going to be comparing my new dog to Gus.

I ended up with a Great Dane / Ovcharka cross that I got from a sketchy Uzbekistanian guy about an hour drive from me.

Stella is a fantastic dog and I love the Great Dane personality but she gets fussy if she's away from me for a while and she also has absolutely no idea how big she is. I've explained to her that I can't buy larger furniture but she doesn't get that she isn't a lap dog. Kitchen counters are head height but thankfully she doesn't like to go shopping.

I'll have another Dane for sure, they're awesome.

There's only two types of small dog that I've found I like: Jack Russel Terriers and Shiba Inu.

I've had two friends with Jack Russels and they don't seem to have the "yappy rat dog" thing going on. They also think they're bigger than everything else.

I have one friend with a Shiba and he's more like a cat. He's a bit aloof but he's got a great personality and he plays with my big dogs like he's the same size they are.

I've ever had Doberman Pinchers. My best one was a 12 year old female rescue. She was amazing and mellow and very gentle with our 3 year old. 

I'll wait until I'm retired before I get a dog. I only like big breeds to be honest but I like traveling more than I like dogs so maybe I'll never get another. I always wanted a Cane Corso though. 

My advice:

Dont acquire anything with a mouth and shiny happy person that camt pay its own living expenses.

triumph7 said:

Also consider adopting a "retired" dog from the military, well trained, obedient and smart.

How do you do this?

Just make sure you can tune them to perfection with your modifications.