Learn me home defense firearms...?

In reply to Toebra :

Also try swinging those items in your hallway. 

You're all wrong!

.458 SOCOM pistol (SBR even better) is the correct answer. 

Shooting Illustrated gives 1" per 15 feet as a rule of thumb for spread.  I just think the recoil of a shotgun would put a lot of new shooters off and they would shoot a half a box and put it away forever where a soft shooting 9mm has plenty of capacity and stopping power plus the benefit of concealability and easier/cheaper safe storage.  All new guns come with a keyed lock for those new to guns

In reply to Justjim75 :

That's probably a decent rule of thumb, but there's a lot of factors that can change that spread, most obvious of course, chokes, and barrel length.

It's been a while since I "patterned" it, but that 12 Ga 870 I posted on page 1 was roughly 12-15" at an approximately paced off 10 yards, but that's a cylinder bore 18.5" barrel.

As far as recoil of a shotgun, they're are a myriad of ways to control that, proper stance, appropriate load, proper fitment, weight of the firearm, etc. etc. etc.  In general an adult 12 Ga is no worse, and sometimes has less recoil than some of the 20 Ga marketed to youth.

Example, here's a pic of 5' 1-1/4" SWMBO unloading her 4th or 5th tube of those Fiocchi low recoil 00 Buck Shot (nickle plated 9 pellet rounds) in our HD 870.  With those rounds, that Magpul stock, and an aggressive stance, she's comfortable shooting it all day.

On the other hand, my first "real" gun was an H&R single shot youth 20 Ga.  Talk about a mule kicker, it's so light, even with low brass bird shot, it's uncomfortable to shoot for long as an adult.  High brass, Buck Shot and/or slugs are comparable to 3-1/2" magnum steel shot, out of one of my other 870s.  Talk about the wrong gun to start a young kid or a newby out on.

None of that matters though if you're not comfortable with what you're shooting, so regardless of your preference, shotgun, single stack pocket pistol, big bore Desert Eagle, wheel gun, AR variant, they all have plusses and minuses.  The great thing is there's plenty of options to find what fits your needs, preference, and perceptions. 

Firearms are like cars, there's something for everyone, and a huge aftermarket for most of the popular stuff.

Curtis said:

One thing I'll add.  For home protection, don't stress about caliber.  As an avid shooter myself, I have a few for different purposes.  9mm for target, .45acp for home protection, .40sw for plinking, etc.

Most home protection scenarios are close quarters, so accuracy is not much of an issue, hence why I have the .45acp.  Max knock-down power, but after 20 feet the lead becomes a tumbling rock and who knows were it will end up.  I wouldn't go as small as a .22 or .25 because when adrenaline is high, they might not have the torque you need to really stop someone.

I would choose a caliber based on price of ammo.  .38 is a fantastic caliber, available in nearly any configuration of handgun, its cheap, and it won't be going away any time soon.

As far as the firearm itself, you need utility.  Single or double action revolver is your huckleberry.  Easy to grip, easy to operate, typically smaller body.

If you haven't already, (TL;DR) make sure you are WELL VERSED and comfortable with it.  I can't stress this enough.  I have been around guns my whole life and I had taken many of the courses on how to be a firearms instructor in CA (but never got certified because we decided to move).  Nothing makes me more nervous than someone who isn't fully comfortable with a firearm.  It's like the difference between giving an indy race car to a 16 year old vs. giving Michael Schumacher a Camry.

Having said all of that, even though I am a gun enthusiast and keep one in the nightstand beside the bed, I have zero fear of ever having to use it.  It's just my personality.  If someone breaks in to steal my stuff, I'm more likely to help them load it up to avoid conflict and injury.  Now, if someone comes to harm me or one of my peeps, they'll be looking down the barrel of something.

Curtis, you make a lot of sense and I don’t want to come across as anti gun but could I please ask you to reconsider the location of your gun?

Burglars  know the #1&#2 place to keep an easy to sell gun is in the night stand drawer and under the pillows. 

If there is a chance of of a forced break in the chance of your gun falling into the hands of a burglar is a thousand times greater.  

OK I made that number up, but gang members are getting guns and it’s not by shopping at Walmart.  

jharry3 said:

GTXVette said:

I saw you were given the best answer about 4 posts in,  A shotgun is what you want, You are new to Wepons and saying ACCURACY IN CLOSE QTRS. ISN'T  AS IMPORTANT ,Is nuts. I would rather fill the doorway with lead than miss for a thousand reasons that come up.

At 20 feet your hand would just about cover up a hole a shotgun charge pattern would make in a paper target or whomever. 

Here's some photos of buckshot patterns for the curious. I shot these with low-recoil 00 buckshot from an 18.5" barrel with a cylinder choke. The first photo is from 7 and 20 yards. The 4 black squares are from 7 yards, and the center mass is from 20 yards.

This second picture is from 5 and 15 yards. The black squares are 5 yards, and the center mass is 15 yards. The big hole is from the wad, not a slug. 

If you really want to have something non-bangy but vastly better in close quarters than the mentioned bat or golf club may I suggest a nice Katana?  Good to swing in open spaces and plenty pokey in a tight hallway.  People have a serious fear of getting cut and in Crocodile Dundee style, the bigger knife wins.

Bonus points for being extra handy during the zombie apocalypse.  

Funny you mention baseball bat and katana. These are with me in my shop right now. 

Lucille and a friend!

Barbed wire is not rusty. Fail. 

It's hard to believe now, that less than 20 years ago, a public school had an AP history class assignment to make and then bring medieval weapons to school.  Granted there were stipulations, swords couldn't have edges, pokey things had to be blunted, etc., but no way that would fly today.

I say this because for part of my project, I took a Louisville Slugger, and made something very similar to this.  1/4" flat bar strapping heated and formed to the bat arranged just like pictured.  My spikes were ~1/2" wood dowel instead of metal, turned down to an almost point.  I took it to school, I got an A.

My sister later absconded with it, to my knowledge she doesn't own a firearm, but my high school history project spiked club has resided behind her bedroom door for about as long as she's lived on her own.

So if you're not okay with guns, and a baseball bat isn't quite enough, maybe modify it, so you can literally "go medieval on their ass." 

frenchyd said:

Curtis, you make a lot of sense and I don’t want to come across as anti gun but could I please ask you to reconsider the location of your gun?

Burglars  know the #1&#2 place to keep an easy to sell gun is in the night stand drawer and under the pillows. 

If there is a chance of of a forced break in the chance of your gun falling into the hands of a burglar is a thousand times greater.  

OK I made that number up, but gang members are getting guns and it’s not by shopping at Walmart.  

You make a valid point, especially since I don't really fear a robbery.  It doesn't need to be within a second's reach.

I must have watched too much Sam Peckinpah.

I’m partial to a shotgun but I use mine regularly for trap shooting so I wouldn’t mind firing it repeatedly.  I also like the idea of misses not penetrating other people’s spaces. It’s not an issue out here in the sticks but I’ve had a stray bullet come through my niece’s crib years ago and the panic from that day stuck with me. She was unhurt but we quickly moved them to a safer neighborhood. 

In reply to bigdaddylee82 :

You kind of made my point about mitigating recoil, it takes training, training a new shooter buying their first gun doesn't have and may not get it it hurts.  I know of several people that were turned off to shooting due to the first gun they fired being a shotgun.  Plenty that suffered at the hands of an experienced shooter thinking it would be funny.  I start everyone on my bolt action, bull barreled 22lr off a bipod.  Then the M&P22.  If they're still interested we move to a Beretta 92fs, 38 snubby, etc

PS, on the subject of ANY modified weapon, be forewarned that good people have gone to jail for "romancing" the self defense encounter by using a gun with a Punisher skull, or maybe something with spikes or barbed wire added.

Curtis said:

frenchyd said:

Curtis, you make a lot of sense and I don’t want to come across as anti gun but could I please ask you to reconsider the location of your gun?

Burglars  know the #1&#2 place to keep an easy to sell gun is in the night stand drawer and under the pillows. 

If there is a chance of of a forced break in the chance of your gun falling into the hands of a burglar is a thousand times greater.  

OK I made that number up, but gang members are getting guns and it’s not by shopping at Walmart.  

You make a valid point, especially since I don't really fear a robbery.  It doesn't need to be within a second's reach.

Thank you.  

While I don’t object to guns especially when owned by a thoughtful and careful person. I’d rather spend money on cars so I just have other priorities. 

The first response you got was plain, simple, and completely agreeable imho. Figure out what you want. Get comfortable with it. Make sure anyone who will use it is comfortable with it. Keep it in a safe place. You got a kid; lock it up and answer any questions they may have about it.

I think any weapon for home defense can be an option, but I lean towards more compact weapons. I don't need a .50 cal rifle to effectively hit somoene 2-10 feet away. Although if there is a mountain lion that is about to attack my dog in the back yard, I may be more likely to use a long gun if I were able to grab it in time.

I've got 2 pistols I carry daily (open or concealed depending on the circumstances) and they stay accessible in the house. One full frame 9mm and a compact .380. I will not say where they are, but I can tell you they do not go by the bed due to health reasons. I've also considered getting a shorter barrel shotgun. Due to events in the area I was living at the time, I had left a semi-automatic long gun within reach. You know.. just in case.

If anyone is worried about a home invasion, there are several things that they should do before going out and buying a firearm. Spend the time and $$$ to secure the house first. 

In no no particular order of importance, that’s just as personal a choice as which gun to buy.

- make sure all of the windows are properly closed/secured especially basement “on ground level” windows, bilco style basement access doors and even coal chute access panels in older homes. Even attic vents can provide a clever thief a spot to get in your house.

- good locks and dead bolts as well as door security bars on all doors.

- a monitored alarm system with sensors on all windows and doors. Cameras are a bonus for break-in’s when you aren’t at home but don’t do much for home invasion.

- outdoor motion-sensing lights all round the house. The very good first layer of defense.

Others can ad their ideas to make a more comprehensive list.

A lot of good ideas here.  Home security is a top priority, lights, doors, windows, etc.   Depending on your circumstances, a dog is a good alarm/protection.

I don't like to talk about firearms openly.  Let's just say, under duress, I'd rather be judged by 12, instead of carried by 6.

thatsnowinnebago said:

jharry3 said:

GTXVette said:

I saw you were given the best answer about 4 posts in,  A shotgun is what you want, You are new to Wepons and saying ACCURACY IN CLOSE QTRS. ISN'T  AS IMPORTANT ,Is nuts. I would rather fill the doorway with lead than miss for a thousand reasons that come up.

At 20 feet your hand would just about cover up a hole a shotgun charge pattern would make in a paper target or whomever. 

Here's some photos of buckshot patterns for the curious. I shot these with low-recoil 00 buckshot from an 18.5" barrel with a cylinder choke. The first photo is from 7 and 20 yards. The 4 black squares are from 7 yards, and the center mass is from 20 yards.

7 yards = 21 feet.  Your hand would go over the group, like I said.

frenchyd said:

Curtis said:

frenchyd said:

Curtis, you make a lot of sense and I don’t want to come across as anti gun but could I please ask you to reconsider the location of your gun?

Burglars  know the #1&#2 place to keep an easy to sell gun is in the night stand drawer and under the pillows. 

If there is a chance of of a forced break in the chance of your gun falling into the hands of a burglar is a thousand times greater.  

OK I made that number up, but gang members are getting guns and it’s not by shopping at Walmart.  

You make a valid point, especially since I don't really fear a robbery.  It doesn't need to be within a second's reach.

Thank you.  

While I don’t object to guns especially when owned by a thoughtful and careful person. I’d rather spend money on cars so I just have other priorities. 

I always wanted one of those biometric safes, and I have a hidden shelf in the closet.  Maybe it's time to make that a priority.

In reply to jharry3 :

And definitely not "fill a doorway with lead" unless you're shooting from the mailbox (smiles)

In reply to Curtis :

Safest place for my handgun is inside its holster on my hip.  If I cant get away with that there may be one on my ankle.  Depends on legality of course.

bigdaddylee82 said:

You're all wrong!

.458 SOCOM pistol (SBR even better) is the correct answer. 

An SBR is nice, but requires NFA. Now if you utilize the loophole to shoulder against a “pistol brace”...

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