Life is short. Are you reconciled with your Maker?

In reply to Datsun310Guy :

You bless somebody's inventing a new kind of human, I suspect it will remain like that forever. 
 

It's our nature. 

In reply to 1988RedT2 :

originally came to say, Sorry to hear about your uncle, and I'll say a prayer for you and your family. Somehow forgot to do that.

In reply to drock25too :

There is nothing about using words like "truth" and "better" that is part of a "discussion". Those are exclusionary words demonstrating closed mindedness. If you honestly believed somebody else could help you, you would approach their beliefs with humility rather than arrogance.

Life is indeed short and it's worth making the most of the time we each have to live it. I try to take care of my body so I can do that, and I try to be a kind, empathetic person that helps others and not just myself. I try to have some fun in the process. 

I admittedly "don't get it" - I grew up going to church (Episcopalian) and was truly, genuinely never interested in one iota of what was going on. My parents asked if I wanted to keep going when we moved and my reaction was some sort of "meh," so I stopped going. I am very interested in understanding how others are so captured by the entire concept because my brain is just not wired that way, or something.

Yeah, the use of "Truth" by some Christians bugs me as well. What kind of truth? Subjective? OK, I can get with that. But some say it as if it's objective and that's wrong.  Objective = provable. If it exists only in your head, it ain't provable. If someone said something a couple of thousand years ago and it's been passed down orally, and then through a translation or two, I'm taking it on its own merits, not as a verifiable fact.  

In reply to Driven5 :

If I came across as arrogant, I apologize. That was not my intention. 

"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because, if there be one, he must more approve the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."  -- Thomas Jefferson

 I can respect anyone who chooses their belief system after serious study and seeking answers. Where most people lose me is an adherence to a belief/religion because they were raised in it/taught it/indoctrinated into it. It's kind of like voting for a political party because your parents always did.

I was raised going to church but it never really made sense to me. I dropped out of attending in my teen years. In my 20s, I decided I needed to make a decision on what I believed (or didn't) because I was married to someone who fit the paragraph above this one.  I read up on numerous religions, read the various tomes, considered everything carefully, and ultimately decided most of it made no sense. I won't promote my choice, but I do believe if you haven't made an effort to look around at the alternatives to be sure you can really accept what you have chosen, you did not come to a belief honestly.

I claim Christianity, but am currently "non-denominational."

I've read the Bible cover-to-cover probably a dozen times so far.  There is a lot that does not make sense in there. It raises a lot of "what the heck?!" questions in me.

I'm not entirely convinced that we, as a Western society, fully understand what was intended thousands of years ago, in a different time, in a different language, in a different culture, and a different philosophy.

I do believe there is a God. There is too much "coincidence" and too much perfection in the natural world for me to accept it all as chance.  Whoever is in charge of making sure that two opposing cars and me cross at exactly the same place on a deserted stretch of road time and time and time again is going to get a punch in the face and a kick to the groin at the same time by me.

I'm also less and less convinced that I have free will.  The Bible talks a lot about God crafting the thoughts and actions of man.  If so, how do I know he's not doing that with me?  And if He's crafting my thoughts and actions, how can I be held accountable to something I have no control over? That's not fair.

What about a genetic or chemical pre-disposition towards something? How can I be held accountable to that? That's also not fair.

Or what if I never learn a better way.  That's not fair.

And if I truly have no control over my thoughts and actions, maybe what ultimately matters is my "mind set" during the whole shebang.  If I do awful, but intended with good heart to do good, that should count.  I'm not malicious inside, it just didn't come out right. Kind of like Thanos - good intention to solve a problem completely fairly, just not an actually favourable outcome at all. Man looks at the actions, but God looks at the heart.

So what are my absolutes? What does it all boil down to for me?

Lots in the Bible seem to indicate God (and in particular, Jesus) is most interested in the "here and now." "The kingdom of God is HERE." I'm less interested in an "exit ticket" now, and more interested in what am I doing right now to better this world we're in. The past doesn't matter so much; where are you going is more important.

Also no answer to the age-old "why do bad things happen to good people?" There is so much in life that makes no sense. And it bad things happen to good people, and good things happen to bad people, then what happens or does not happen bears no reflection on your "goodness," so there has to be a deeper importance going on. Not really sure what, though.

And to be truthfully honest, I'm still formulating where the heck I am in all this, and I am full of hypocrisy just like all the rest of us. I'm not the "poster boy" of Christianity by any means. But I'm trying to make the world a better place the best I can, and I try to protect my mind from anger and bitterness because that crap doesn't help anyone especially me.

Debated long and hard about sharing anything.  Like politics, this can be a scary subject to touch.

---

I'm not a big user of "church-speak." I try to explain what I believe in normal or (even better) pop-culture terms. Lots of semantics really, honestly, truly, do not matter. Good armchair discussion, but you gotta figure the core of what you believe enough that the piddly details don't matter.

Personally I believe there is a God. I don't know that that God is the Christian God. But I don't ever see my self ever rejoining a church. My experiences with church from high school to college made me realize that I don't what part of that again.

A couple thoughts. 
 

Being a good person has little to do with religion. I know plenty of religious people that do not live by their stated beliefs by any measure. Likewise, I know plenty of atheists and agnostics who are genuinely good and caring. 
 

At the end of the day, I am nobody's judge but my own. If I've done my best to be a good person and to better myself, the rest is almost immaterial. Whether you believe in a higher power or not, if you can rest with a clear conscience on your deathbed (or anywhere you are when your time comes), that's all that matters. That way, whether you are judged or not, you can at least judge yourself with a passing grade. 
 

I'll leave it at that. This is a good discussion, thanks everyone. Please try to stay civil, this might be a topic that one of us desperately needs right now and it would be a shame to have the thread locked. 

Awesome discussion. IMHO, Churches and religiosity are fine, but Mean little. Dennis Rader, the BTK killer, served in a leadership role within a church. In the church that I went to as a kid, jesus was a plastic baby that we sang songs about and put in a manger scene every winter. The church that I was baptized into as an adult, declaring publicly that I accepted the Gospel of Jesus, had a core of truly inspirational people that lived their faith. I don't fear 'death'. The 'process of dying' is a thing that I am disinclined to, but I trust God to carry me through when the time comes.

Has anyone not thought of 'their maker', what is Real and what is to become of them? I doubt it. Observe, question, and observe again....

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

I'm trying to think of how to express certain opinions without being offensive and getting this shut down.

For example, I've seen perfection and intelligent design mentioned a few times......what is intelligent about being able to not swallow food correctly causing you to asphyxiate.....instead of breathing and eating being two separate paths?

How did Jesus die for our sins, if he was resurrected to a better place 3 days later? 

Would any father's here with female children believe their daughter was pregnant with no male contact? What about your wife? 

Did all humans before Christ go to hell because they weren't able to be saved?

There is just too much that doesn't add up, for me anyway.

EDIT: I was baptized Episcopalian and studied religion and philosophy in college to the point I have a minor in philosophy. 

and this isn't meant to be mean or dismissive, merely a small explanation I have about the idea of a supreme being.

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I'm agnostic but I wish that I'd raised my son Catholic. Why? Because my wife is Catholic, and it would have placed him in a nurturing community that might have done him some real good. My brother-in-law raised his three sons that way and they're turning out very well. Also, I live in a beautiful town with lousy schools, and it was always such a battle undoing all the little things he learned by virtue of hanging with the wrong crowd at public schools.

759NRNG said:

Steve, you just go away right now ...yu bring no healing in any realm to the table for those that are truly grieving..... do not respond if you have any sense of compassion...

How very Christian of you. 

In reply to Steve_Jones :

I understand you are not in the same place as many people in this thread. I respect that. 
 

I don't understand why you feel compelled to post in this thread at all. There is mourning and grieving and searching going on here and you seem driven to pour bitterness on it.
 

No one is here to preach to you, but you seem driven to preach to everyone else in a thread you don't even like.

I'm not asking you to leave, but I am asking you to consider if you really want to be pissing on everyone else. 
 

I see your hurt and pain on this subject. I'm sorry.  

Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:

Yeah, the use of "Truth" by some Christians bugs me as well. What kind of truth? Subjective? OK, I can get with that. But some say it as if it's objective and that's wrong.  Objective = provable. If it exists only in your head, it ain't provable. If someone said something a couple of thousand years ago and it's been passed down orally, and then through a translation or two, I'm taking it on its own merits, not as a verifiable fact.  

While I think I believe in a higher power, and call my self a Christian- this is also where I have issues.

One of the major "truths" is that if you are not Christian, aka believe in Christ, you will not go to heaven.  I find it hard to accept that there's a god that would keep 80% of the world out of heaven.   I can't really accept that God takes sides for the various groups that honor a God of some type.

And then extend that to the number of people who have died over the centuries who have decided to not believe in Christ.  Again, I find it hard to accept that God would want people to go our and end the lives of good, honest, hard working people just because their version of honoring a God does not include a specific person.

Further extend that to the number of Christians who have died because other Christian groups think they are doing it wrong.

But I try to live my life with intent enough that every day is a good day to die, if it happens.  Even so, I have a long way to go, and it takes work.

SV reX said:

In reply to Steve_Jones :

I understand you are not in the same place as many people in this thread. I respect that. 
 

I don't understand why you feel compelled to post in this thread at all. There is mourning and grieving and searching going on here and you seem driven to pour bitterness on it.
 

No one is here to preach to you, but you seem driven to preach to everyone else in a thread you don't even like.

I'm not asking you to leave, but I am asking you to consider if you really want to be pissing on everyone else. 
 

I see your hurt and pain on this subject. I'm sorry.  

You are reading a lot into my posts. Please show me where I am bitter. Am I bitter because my truth might be different from yours? Is that how you're reading it?

Just because I might (and you don't know if I do) have different beliefs, I'm "crass" and "bitter" and told to go away? 
 

Doesn't seem Christian at all to say that to someone you've never met. I'm not the only one on this thread, yet I'm the only one called out by name. Why?

In reply to 1988RedT2 :

I'm sorry for the loss of both your friend and your uncle. They sound like they were good people.

Its pretty funny to see who on this thread is saying "live and let live" and who is calling names and judging others. There seems to be a pattern....

In reply to alfadriver :

I think it's more like an intimate relationship than a scorecard. 
 

If my wife spent her days doing good things, encouraging people, building up marriages, and being generally supportive and positive to everyone, but failed to acknowledge that I existed, never made any attempt to get to know me, and didn't even show up at the alter for our wedding, I'd have a pretty hard time considering us married. 
 

At the same time, there are mysteries that only God knows the answers to. His grace is infinite, and there will be people of all nations and cultures in His kingdom. How that works is more than I can understand. 
 

That's not an answer.  That's why they call it faith. 

In reply to Steve_Jones :

My wife and I have been married for over 30 years. She's a Lutheran and I'm an atheist. This was true when we met and it's true to this day. We managed to raise two great kids and we have a good life. It's amazing what people can do when they just treat each other with respect.

In reply to Steve_Jones :

I saw your post. If you have honest questions, feel free to contact me privately. 

Just checking in.... religion, like politics, is a topic that can inspire--well, war. I'm seeing some classic troll behavior here. Please stop. On this forum, not everything can be forgiven.

Margie

In reply to Steve_Jones :

Yes, I am reading a lot into your posts. I am not the only one. 
 

I think it's important to realize that whether you intend it or not, what you are communicating is bitterness and hurt.

And you are hurting others with it. 
 

It's worth some honest consideration, especially if that is not what you intend to communicate.