Lighten up, Francis (koran burning content.)

Toyman01 wrote: In reply to autoxrs: So your deciding all religions are bad based on the actions of a few individuals. How does that make you any different than the religious fanatics you are complaining about.

I never said that did I? I said I was glad that I was an atheist, which means I get to view the world free from a set of blinders. Sure, a person of religion X might be able to do the same and appreciate other religions but deep down in their core they have this feeling that they are right. My closest friends follow every perceivable religion and are of every perceivable color of skin and race. I judge you based on your actions, absolutely nothing else.

(comic relief) I bet there were plenty of good Nazis. You know, the media makes them out to be these horrible dudes, but I bet there were tons of them that didn't kill anybody...maybe even more than the ones that did. We should probably stop hatin' on the Nazis. (comic relief)

In reply to poopshovel:

I'm pretty sure they were all in Illinois.

poopshovel wrote: (comic relief) I bet there were plenty of good Nazis. You know, the media makes them out to be these horrible dudes, but I bet there were tons of them that didn't kill anybody...maybe even more than the ones that did. We should probably stop hatin' on the Nazis. (comic relief)

They make good zombies too. Did you see Dead Snow? Tell me the Russians would have been that scary. No way.

Wally wrote: In reply to poopshovel: I'm pretty sure they were all in Illinois.

Atheism is a religion too. It is a very intolerant region. Atheist go through life with their own set of blinders on. Tell one that's his religion and he usually gets all bent out of shape saying "No it's not, because, that's why, just because, and, and, science." Then they start name calling.

I have my own set of beliefs. It's called "I'm right about everything forever"

It makes things simple for me.

It sounds like I'm joking, but I'm really not. I always take into account that I'm predisposed to think I'm right about everything. Sometimes being aware of that fact helps me see someone else's perspective. Most of the time it helps me realize that Everyone thinks this way and I'm about as likely to change their minds as they are to change mine.

PS You're all wrong.

autoxrs wrote: ...I judge you based on your actions, absolutely nothing else.

But that judgement is based on a set of ethical standards that come from somewhere.

If we were part of a culture of cannibals, you'd think it was pretty weird if I didn't eat people.

Your atheism is devoid of deity (unless you count yourself), but not of religion. You dogmatically follow your belief system because you perceive you to be right.

What's different about that?

I'm really not that impressed with someone who grew up as an atheist (or insert whatever religion you choose) and has always been one and still is one.

That only evidences to me someone who has never seriously evaluated their belief system, or been open to any kind of truth (that they weren't born with).

I'm more impressed with people who were raised one way, then looked at the other options, and came to a conviction. Perhaps they return to their upbringing after honestly looking at others, but personal growth, evaluation, and willingness to change are much more impressive to me than dogma.

Personally, I was an atheist. I found it was nothing more than an excuse for me to not take seriously worldviews that I didn't like. Explored several other world views before I came to the conclusion that I was wrong. I am not a Christian because I was born that way. I am a Christian because I have chosen the only path that makes sense. I stand on my convictions, not my dogma nor my upbringing.

My parents were unitarians before they started going to quaker meeting. I've married a catholic deacons daughter. I liked the quakers the best. They were very hard working live and let live people. But they were prone to internal political struggles. I've been to the services of most major religions.

I don't lob insults at other people's religion. I've found all the major ones basically say the same thing and I don't have a problem with it. I've seen the good and bad side of religion.

I do lob insults at those who profess one thing and do another.

I currently see no reason and or proof to believe in god. But like any man of science, you must keep your mind open until you see concrete proof.

Where are my blinders hess?

In reply to SVreX:

Please do not make the general statement that all born atheists are close minded and have never evaluated their beliefs. Using that type of example we would have to say all people who were born into any belief system and stay in that system are non thinking idiots. It may be the most common occurrence, but it is no way the only one.

This thread is about to stoop to burning posts, or whatever the equivalent may be.

Dr. Hess wrote: Atheism is a religion too.

Not if your doing it right.

Tifosi2k2 wrote:

ignorant wrote: I currently see no reason and or proof to believe in god. But like any man of science, you must keep your mind open until you see concrete proof.

That's why they call it "Faith"......

hey.. atleast I try to keep my mind open, unlike my martyr catholic grandmother.. ugh..

MrJoshua wrote: In reply to SVreX: Please do not make the general statement that all born atheists are close minded and have never evaluated their beliefs. Using that type of example we would have to say all people who were born into any belief system and stay in that system are non thinking idiots. It may be the most common occurrence, but it is no way the only one.

You're right. I worded that poorly.

The point was evaluation is critical.

autoxrs wrote: What if I disagree, or am I not allowed to do that. How do you know either one of us are right. Your scriptures, and entire scriptures of every religion in this planet was mostly written by people we never met. We have interpreted them, some from ancient languages that very few actually know. But, no we took 6 college classes and somehow that makes us an expert.

I welcome your right to disagree. What if you are wrong?

What if, for example, you were standing in the road, and several people were hollering at you to tell you that a truck was barreling down on you? You may disagree, and you may not like them yelling at you, embarrassing you publically, getting in your face, or somehow offending you. But what if they are right? Would you want them to say nothing?

The caring thing to do is to tell you what is happening, even if it offends you.

Don't assume people of faith get some perverse pleasure from pissing you off. It is very possible that they care a lot about you. There's nothing harder than trying to share something important with someone who doesn't want to try to listen.

You have to give people the freedom to act on their convictions, even if you disagree with them.

Dr. Hess wrote: Atheism is a religion too. It is a very intolerant region. Atheist go through life with their own set of blinders on. Tell one that's his religion and he usually gets all bent out of shape saying "No it's not, because, that's why, just because, and, and, science." Then they start name calling.

Nope, no religion here. Also no blinders or intolerance. I applaud someone who is Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Wiccan or you name it because they are dioing the same thing I am: acting on their deeply held beliefs. I also do not diss someone's religion.

At the same time, I expect that same respect to be accorded my beliefs. If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me.

I also do not like the idea of someone using their religion as an excuse to kill infidels, non believers, or whatever the term used is.

SVreX wrote: I welcome your right to disagree. What if you are wrong? What if, for example, you were standing in the road, and several people were hollering at you to tell you that a truck was barreling down on you? You may disagree, and you may not like them yelling at you, embarrassing you publically, getting in your face, or somehow offending you. But what if they are right? Would you want them to say nothing?

We would both know who was right in the next instant what with trucks being real, tangible items requiring no faith whatsoever and so forth ;).

For the record - if they yelled there is a ghost barreling down on you... I'd probably still look because I've always wanted to see a real one. I'd be hoping more for the hot kind from the movies about love than the scary murderous ones from all the the other movies.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: For the record - if they yelled there is a ghost barreling down on you... I'd probably still look because I've always wanted to see a real one.

Seems like seeing a "real" ghost would only reinforce the beliefs of those on either side of the debate.

BTW, who defines what is "real" and why can't their convictions be questioned?

oldsaw wrote: Seems like seeing a "real" ghost would only reinforce the beliefs of those on either side of the debate.

There in lies the rub... there are no ghosts.

oldsaw wrote: BTW, who defines what is "real" and why can't their convictions be questioned?

Everything can be questioned. Even if you belong to a cult that insists you believe things without question - you can still question them. In fact, anytime someone tells to not to question something - that is a huge tipoff that someone is yanking your chain.

I didn't read this whole thread so if it's already been stated I apologize. Burning ANY books is UNACCEPTABLE!!!! We are better than this. They burn our flags on a regular basis. The last thing that needs to happen is us lowering ourselves to their standards. We as a people need to be the "better man". Let's not let them drag us down with them. Our integrity is all that we have. We can't afford to lose it.

Why can't we all just... get along?

Dr. Hess wrote: Atheism is a religion too. It is a very intolerant region. Atheist go through life with their own set of blinders on. Tell one that's his religion and he usually gets all bent out of shape saying "No it's not, because, that's why, just because, and, and, science." Then they start name calling.

Yet, somehow I've managed not to call you a name, even though (from my point of view) you've made the mistake of calling "bald" a color of hair.

Seriously though, Doc..it's really difficult for an atheist to describe atheism to someone who takes their theism seriously. I actually don't know if I can do it without insulting you, because I really don't know what constitutes an "insult" to a theist that I respect. Just as you don't understand that your "atheism is a religion" is an insult to those of us who live without a religion, my usual reply to that comment on my atheist newsgroups and online bulletin boards is often considered an equally offensive insult to theists. Over on those boards, we often say that theists do not understand how we view religion. To most theists, religion is such an important part of their lives that they wonder with what we've "replaced" it. It is very difficult to explain that to most atheists, there is no need for a "replacement". I must admit..my usual reply over in the other groups is to ask them which disease they would like to replace their cancer/appendicitis/etc.

There's also another societal "thing" going on with discussion of theism & atheism in the US..unlike most of the atheists in Western Europe or Japan, most atheists in the US were once actually theists (personally, I was once a Christian). Some of my less mellow atheist friends & loved ones (especially the young people..you wouldn't like to hear the things that SHMBO, my daughter, and many of their friends say about the religion of their parents) don't seem to be able just to enjoy their new freedom and let things go..they actually wish to find some way to "punish" their parents, etc. in some sort of search for revenge. Personally, I think such behavior is a "fool's errand", but since they do not agree with me..they do not.

Anyhow...as far as burning books? I'm for it. I'm an American. I still think that it's the speech we disagree with the most that must have the most "protection". Any idiot who burns a book will simply inspire people who can actually think to find a copy of the book and read it. They can't burn them all..

Trust me, DrHess...if I merely "dislike" Christianity...I absolutely HATE Islam. It would give me "warm fuzzies" inside to see a copy of the Qu'ran smoldering like the tip of my "fire safe" cigarette. OTOH, I've got friends with kids serving in Afghanistan, and have to admit that even though I personally have outgrown supernatural nonsense..most of the world hasn't. It makes me angry that I can't apply American principles to the arsehole of the world, but I'd rather have my friends kids come home alive.

And yes, as an atheist..I'm reallly pretty angry that so much of the discussion about the various reasons for human conflict in the Mid-East is disguised in the terms of religious "belief", instead of being accepted as the realistic "you have what I want" that is the actual source of conflict.

SVreX wrote:

autoxrs wrote: What if I disagree, or am I not allowed to do that. How do you know either one of us are right. Your scriptures, and entire scriptures of every religion in this planet was mostly written by people we never met. We have interpreted them, some from ancient languages that very few actually know. But, no we took 6 college classes and somehow that makes us an expert.

SVreX wrote: I welcome your right to disagree. What if you are wrong?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager

Excerpt:

Pascal himself didn't address the question of other religions in his section on the wager, presumably because throughout the rest of Pensées (and in his other works) he examined alternatives, like stoicism, paganism, Islam, and Judaism, and concluded that if any faith is correct, it would be the Christian faith.

end exerpt.

SVreX wrote: What if, for example, you were standing in the road, and several people were hollering at you to tell you that a truck was barreling down on you?

What if, for example, there was no truck?