Lighten up, Francis (koran burning content.)

friedgreencorrado wrote: Apologies to everyone for not lying to everyone about my lack of belief in gods. Perhaps I'll just go eat boiled kittens, kill my enemies in cold blood, or cheat on my SWMBO, or whatever else (where's the "rolling eyes" icon?) the theists who don't understand what atheism actually *is* claim I will do without theism?

Just try being gay: I've had gay friends questioned (earnestly questioned, in my presence) why they hadn't also tried bestiality, pederasty, and incest, since they had already proven themselves willing to have sex with consenting adults of the same gender as they are.

But I digress.

Oh, and I am an atheist classical liberal here, too, much like Jensenman, so we don't appear to be be that rare - just a little too rare for the common good.

While we're waaaaay off topic and everyone is in super-preachy mode:

While I understand the enmity for christians, organized religion as a whole, etc., etc., whether it be based on bad experiences with religious types, a feeling or sense or moment of "enlightenment" where you decided that a deity was no more or less real than Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny, do some of you self-proclaimed athiests, agnostics, etc. realize that you come off JUST as preachy, self-righteous, holier than thou, and very often, even more condescending than those who believe in a god?

I get it. I get the sense of joy one can get in saying "AH-HA! Hypocrite!", but if it's just to make yourself feel more righteous and enlightened than the next guy, aren't you just as bad as those simple-minded, self-righteous, deity-worshippin' fools you take such issue with?

poopshovel wrote: ...where you decided that a deity was no more or less real than Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny, do some of you self-proclaimed athiests, agnostics, etc. realize that you come off JUST as preachy, self-righteous, holier than thou, and very often, even more condescending...

Perhaps preachy-self-righteous-holier-than-thou-condescending-ness is a human trait evolved over millions of years rather than ordained by a particular deity.

poopshovel wrote:

LOL! You should know by now that any honest attempt at meaningful debate regarding religion, politics or any mix of same on the internet will result in epic floundering. Embrace the flounder.

tr00f. WTF was I thinking? Sorry dudes.

You'd darned well better be bringing something cool to the Challenge. You've got a LOT of making up to do!

Worst. Thread. Ever.

I left it alone for a few days hoping it would get better...

Duke wrote:

friedgreencorrado wrote: Apologies to everyone for not lying to everyone about my lack of belief in gods. Perhaps I'll just go eat boiled kittens, kill my enemies in cold blood, or cheat on my SWMBO, or whatever else (where's the "rolling eyes" icon?) the theists who don't understand what atheism actually *is* claim I will do without theism?

Just try being gay: I've had gay friends questioned (earnestly questioned, in my presence) why they hadn't also tried bestiality, pederasty, and incest, since they had already proven themselves willing to have sex with consenting adults of the same gender as they are. But I digress. Oh, and I am an atheist classical liberal here, too, much like Jensenman, so we don't appear to be be that rare - just a little *too* rare for the common good.

Woops. I R not so classic, I R a conservative atheist. Sometimes I think there are more gay than atheist Republicans.

SVreX wrote:

friedgreencorrado wrote: Oh, agreed..but please remember that the right doesn't just include Pastor Jones' intent to burn a Qu'ran..but also my own temptation to burn a Christian bible.

I understand that.

friedgreencorrado wrote: I'm being facetious here. I'm not intending to burn *any* book. Perhaps I'm naive, but I still hope that allowing people to actually *read* something that I personally consider incorrect/hateful/offensive will allow other people to reconsider their own presupposed notions, and find an escape from them.

Burning books, in the modern age with printing presses, libraries, internet, etc., has NOTHING to do with eliminating distasteful reading material. It is a protest. Pure and simple. I defend this Pastor's right to protest (or the Imam in NY, or whoever). Now, when Uthman ibn 'Affan did it in 650 AD, his goal was to eliminate ALL copies of the Qur'an except his own, in order to ensure the authenticity of his own. I guess that would make him somehow more important. BTW- he was the 3rd Caliph of Islam after Muhammad. Oh, those terrible Christians!

Oh, I'm no defender of Islam. And I emphatically agree with what you said above about it being an act of protest. A recent joke on one of my atheist forums went, "..get yourself a digital copy of the Qu'ran. Copy it fifty times. Delete them all. Congrats! You've just destroyed 51 Qu'rans!"

IMO, comparing the ancient behaviors of early Christianity and early Islam doesn't really do much but show that ancient humans were barbarous and petty. But any study of ancient people, whether that study regards religion, politics, or social classes shows that. And any study of modern societies should show that we ain't got all the barbarism and pettiness out of ourselves yet..

SVreX wrote:

friedgreencorrado wrote: Apologies to everyone for not lying to everyone about my lack of belief in gods. Perhaps I'll just go eat boiled kittens, kill my enemies in cold blood, or cheat on my SWMBO, or whatever else (where's the "rolling eyes" icon?) the theists who don't understand what atheism actually *is* claim I will do without theism?

This is so bizarrely idiotic that it certainly does not warrant a response. Nobody claimed you would do anything without theism.

Yeah, I owe you an apology for that one, SVreX. Probably a beer or three too many in me when I wrote it. Many of the theists that participate on my atheist forums usually "go there" (without religion, no rules in society) very soon in a thread. My fault, dude. It's been so long since I've had a good online conversation with a theist (strangely enough, I think the last one I had was actually with you! ) that I launched the pre-emptive strike when there was no need. Mea Culpa. Maybe I was pissed because the JWs or Mormons or something knocked on my door while I was still asleep that day.

SVreX wrote: I'm trying to take you seriously. You are making it difficult with posts like this. Don't feel bad. There's a lot of idiocy (from varying perspectives) in this thread.

Thanks for the understanding. I assure you, the apology I offer is honestly offered!

poopshovel wrote: While we're waaaaay off topic and everyone is in super-preachy mode: While I understand the enmity for christians, organized religion as a whole, etc., etc., whether it be based on bad experiences with religious types, a feeling or sense or moment of "enlightenment" where you decided that a deity was no more or less real than Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny, do some of you self-proclaimed athiests, agnostics, etc. realize that you come off JUST as preachy, self-righteous, holier than thou, and very often, even more condescending than those who believe in a god? I get it. I get the sense of joy one can get in saying "AH-HA! Hypocrite!", but if it's just to make yourself feel more righteous and enlightened than the next guy, aren't you just as bad as those simple-minded, self-righteous, deity-worshippin' fools you take such issue with?

ROFL! Poop's got a good point, tho. All that crap about my "fellow atheists" (really, a phrase as dumb as saying "my fellow non-stamp collectors") trying to remove every instance of "ceremonial deism" from any scrap of land where gov't dollars are used is really pretty silly. Just look at Western Europe..if you tried to remove every scrap of religious stuff from the public sphere, you'd have to destroy the big medieval cathedrals over there. Public theism is part of history. Does anyone really wanna destroy history? Hey, the English have proved that ex-churches make great bars.

http://www.360cities.net/image/converted-church-england#29.09,40.81,78.7

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

friedgreencorrado wrote: Perhaps I'll just go eat boiled kittens, kill my enemies in cold blood, or cheat on my SWMBO, or whatever else (where's the "rolling eyes" icon?) the theists who don't understand what atheism actually *is* claim I will do without theism?

Now we are talkin'. I am getting out my bone saw. I'll be right over!

Bring beer. We're out. Again. Damn, the EAC is a cheap bunch of bastards..

Duke wrote:

friedgreencorrado wrote: Apologies to everyone for not lying to everyone about my lack of belief in gods. Perhaps I'll just go eat boiled kittens, kill my enemies in cold blood, or cheat on my SWMBO, or whatever else (where's the "rolling eyes" icon?) the theists who don't understand what atheism actually *is* claim I will do without theism?

Just try being gay: I've had gay friends questioned (earnestly questioned, in my presence) why they hadn't also tried bestiality, pederasty, and incest, since they had already proven themselves willing to have sex with consenting adults of the same gender as they are.

Send your gay friends this.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/files/u47/Henry_et_al.pdf

Duke wrote: But I digress. Oh, and I am an atheist classical liberal here, too, much like Jensenman, so we don't appear to be be that rare - just a little *too* rare for the common good.

Ooh, Jensen's not gonna like that..IIRC, he's a "Goldwater conservative"..

friedgreencorrado wrote: Thanks for the understanding. I assure you, the apology I offer is honestly offered!

Apology accepted. I figure you are probably easier to forgive than I am.

Hey, I've got a question... What the heck is an "atheist forum"?

Is that where a bunch of people get together to discuss stuff they don't believe exists with other people who also don't believe it exists? What the heck is up with that? Do they get into pretty decent arguments with each other while agreeing to not believe something exists?

They must have a purpose other than being an "atheist forum".

I am not aware of any similar thing for theists (or Christians, for that matter). I can't even envision how it would work.

I am aware of sites that exist for other purposes which are FREQUENTED by Christians (for example, home schooling sites get a lot of conservative protestants, but there are also home schoolers who are liberal, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, or atheist who may participate).

But I am not aware of any sites that exist for the purpose of being "theist" (or Christian).

If I was aware of such a site, I'd make sure to not go there. Sounds pretty boring.

I much prefer to discuss my worldviews with people who can bring me differing perspectives. It either helps me grow, or allows me to help others grow. Usually a bit of both.

Do sites exist for the purpose of being atheist? Do they ever win any debates? Do they ever loose any debates? Do they ever convince someone else of their opinions, or do they really get off on navel gazing?

Are there really "atheist forums", or do they actually exist for other purposes?

I'm serious- I'm not making fun. I'm honestly curious.

I don't believe in atheists.

SVreX wrote: Hey, I've got a question... What the heck is an "atheist forum"? Is that where a bunch of people get together to discuss stuff they don't believe exists with other people who also don't believe it exists? What the heck is up with that? Do they get into pretty decent arguments with each other while agreeing to not believe something exists?

They argue about cars.

Paul-you have mentioned the "About to be run over by a truck" analogy several times on this forum over the years, yet I have never had you once try to save me from that truck. What gives?

MrJoshua wrote: What gives?

The truck is a lie!

DILYSI Dave wrote:

SVreX wrote: Hey, I've got a question... What the heck is an "atheist forum"? Is that where a bunch of people get together to discuss stuff they don't believe exists with other people who also don't believe it exists? What the heck is up with that? Do they get into pretty decent arguments with each other while agreeing to not believe something exists?

They argue about cars.

i lawl'd.

Jensenman, sorry for painting you with the wrong color brush. Though I know from observance you and I see pretty well eye-to-eye on many topics.

SVreX wrote: Do sites exist for the purpose of being atheist? Do they ever win any debates? Do they ever loose any debates? Do they ever convince someone else of their opinions, or do they really get off on navel gazing? Are there really "atheist forums", or do they actually exist for other purposes? I'm serious- I'm not making fun. I'm honestly curious.

I find it hard to believe that there are not forums dedicated to generic (or even flavored) spiritualism/theism. I mean, heck, there is Christian Rock as a musical genre and so I find it hard to imagine that there are not Christian (or whatever) Forums. I mean, seriously, there are forums for just about any miniscule special interest you can imagine... it stands to reason that one of the driving forces of civilization for the last, oh, 2000 years might have something dedicated to it. Although I freely admit I have not looked so this is all deductive speculation on my part, and not from actual research.

And yes, there are forums about atheism just as there are forums about other sociopolitical movements. They discuss atheism in relation to modern society, throughout history, and current events where atheism is relevant - much like I find it easy to imagine that religious (or theist, if you feel that is semantically different) people do as well.

Can we all at least agree that Christian rock is horrible?

Is there such a thing as Muslim rock?

Otto_Maddox wrote: Is there such a thing as Muslim rock?

There is Islamic rap.

MrJoshua wrote: Paul-you have mentioned the "About to be run over by a truck" analogy several times on this forum over the years, yet I have never had you once try to save me from that truck. What gives?

I am a weak poor example.

And I don't believe in trucks.

Otto_Maddox wrote: Can we all at least agree that Christian rock is neither?

Otto_Maddox wrote: Can we all at least agree that Christian rock is horrible?

Disagree, listen to some of Thousand Foot Krutch's stuff. Of course, they barely fit the definition (more rock than Christian) but thats what they fall under. And I'm not even Christian!