Liver health...

I don't know why, but for some reason in the last few weeks I've become more focused that over the decades I've done possibly serious damage to my liver.  Just like the poor sod from "Monty Python's Meaning of Life", I plan to use it for some time.  I don't think this is a case of my watching YouTube videos and being carried away in a case of internet video panic, but the short version is that I'm seeing long term similarities in the stuff they're warning about on YouTube and my life experience.  30 years Type 2 diabetic and now I'm having various minor ailments that appear to dovetail with what they're describing as signs of chronic liver damage.  My previous GP concluded I'd was suffering from a fatty liver for decades.  I mentioned it to a doc this week and he suggested getting a scan to see if we can get more information.  I'm thinking I need a full bloodwork baseline for determining whether my fears are founded on anything substantial and secondarily, something to be used for calculating any progress in the future--e.g. vitamin deficiencies or other indicators of possible problems.  

So.  My plan is to start a new diet that's intended to be a lot less of the stuff I shouldn't be eating (processed food, alcohol, sugars) and a lot more of the stuff I should be eating (cruciferous veggies, etc.) and start a long term exercise program to be in good enough physical shape by the time I retire (6 years?) so I can actually hope to be around for as long as possible.

Any opinions/relevant experience amongst The Hive?

I know someone (very close) that was beginning to have liver issues (fatty liver, IIRC) and the doctors linked it to either alcohol consumption or high fructose corn syrup.  Since he would only drink on the weekends, he figured it was the HFCS from the 4-8 sodas a day.  

Not to beat that old dead horse, but all things in moderation, yadda, yadda.  But, it's not the occasional indulgences or over-indulgences that will get you.  It's those seemingly harmless or not-so-harmless habits that become part of our everyday routine.  

I'm not a doctor. 

I guarantee that this is from your diabetes. I'd say it is time to give up alcohol altogether, get your weight to a healthy spot, and take control of your diet... and most importantly, consult with your endocrinologist and possibly a Hepatologist as well. 

In reply to stroker :

Any exercise and better diet regimen will be a good thing. You do it for your future self, not for the one sitting (in my case, too long) at a desk. Be prepared to fail, but do so knowing that you're trying to change your life and that is genuinely difficult. Give yourself time to start new behaviors.

With liver tests, they'll likely start with primary markers AST and ALT, and perhaps BUN- AST and ALT are hormones the liver produces that give indications of damage, while BUN (Blood urea nitrogen) says what protein it's digesting and how well it's clearing out of your renal system. That alone will give a clearer image of what's happening and will likely be done right in your clinic.

AIUI, the good news is that the liver is an organ that is capable of remarkable self-repair.

Everyone thought my liver was bad.  Turned out I had gout.   Allo to the rescue. 

For years I kept getting the "you need to curb your alcohol consumption letter" from my annual physical.  Thing is I drank almost nothing .   My PCP finally had an ultrasound done on my liver which is showing fatty liver.  Time for me to get off the sugar train.    

mtn said:

I'd say it is time to give up alcohol altogether...

Maybe. Maybe not.

My grandfather was a Type 1 diabetic and was so good at understanding and managing it, that his GP would often hand him off to new endocrinologists so that he could teach them about practically managing diabetes.

He found that if he had *one* drink in an evening, it would actually moderately lower and stabilize his blood sugar.If he started in on a second drink, his blood sugar would jump rapidly.

So. Maybe. Maybe not. It's really complicated and individual. Depends on lots of other factors. YMMV. He did not have signs of fatty liver disease.

I have liver disease. I rarely ever drank alcohol, and haven't had a drink in close to 20 years.  Mostly due to weight and diet I believe.  They found mine as they were monitoring liver function due to the Humira I take. 

On the diet, do plenty of research, as it may surprise you on some of the foods  that need to be avoided, its kinda crazy on what can affect your liver. 

I made an appointment with my GP for a few weeks from now.  I'll suggest a full blood workup  (H/T Girthquake) and see what the doc thinks.  

In the meantime, I'm going to be trying to come up with salads using lots of kale, arugula, olive oil, lemon juice and vinegars...

Can't go wrong with good diet and appropriate exercise regardless. I've heard milk thistle supplements are supposed to help, but I haven't followed up on that too much. I wonder if artichokes are close enough, since you can be certain an artichoke is 100% thistle. Can't always be sure with supplements.

The liver is a remarkable organ, mine has been bicepted three times, probably less than 20% of it is OE. It takes 12-18 months, but basically any damage that isn't chronic alcohol related can be repaired, and it takes 3-4 drinks daily to cause the alcohol related issues. Eating clean and exercise is paramount, exercise doesn't need to be intense, but duration matters. Walking for 90 minutes a day 5 times a week is better than moderate to high intensity for 20-30 minutes 3-5 times a week. The good news is that it's simple, the bad news is that there are no short cuts. Preparing fresh food and eating clean takes time when compared to grab and go and there's no shortcut for exercise duration. One other dietary note, whole plant based fiber helps a ton as well. Whether it be from green vegetables, apples, pears, avocados or figs, if you have 2-3 servings a day for 3-4 days you'll already see a difference in the way things are processing. That lightens the lifting for the liver and will kick start it's repair. 

Get the tests. Then decide. 
 

My blood work showed some concerns recently. I don't drink enough to matter, but I was taking Acetaminophen (Tylenol) too frequently. 

In reply to SV reX :

Anti inflammatories will absolutely torch the liver and Nsaids will torch the kidneys. When needed, they should be rotated. 

I have nothing to add, except that my mother died from chronic liver failure. Her last two years were outright horrific. You do not want to experience that. 

If you're getting bloodwork to check your liver health you need to pay attention to markers for synthetic liver function, not AST/ALT like most doctors hyper focus on. AST/ALT are great for indicating inflammation but do not indicate liver function. 

Albumin, bilirubin, platelets, INR (I'm sure others that I can't think of right now) are all indicators of synthetic liver function. 

Just buried my mom and she had "Advanced Chirosis" as the Dr. said.   Never drank, the corn syrup listed above is an interesting thought.  The other option is that she had a Stroke in 2000.  Can only assume that some meds may have helped.

We wont know for sure, but some combination got her to that point and no one knew it.

Saying that, I got bad over the last few months about having a drink in the eve.  Ive laid off a bit over the last month.  Im overweight too, so working on that also.

In reply to Thinkkker and Calteg:

Condolences on your losses...  

Beer Baron said:

mtn said:

I'd say it is time to give up alcohol altogether...

Maybe. Maybe not.

My grandfather was a Type 1 diabetic and was so good at understanding and managing it, that his GP would often hand him off to new endocrinologists so that he could teach them about practically managing diabetes.

He found that if he had *one* drink in an evening, it would actually moderately lower and stabilize his blood sugar.If he started in on a second drink, his blood sugar would jump rapidly.

So. Maybe. Maybe not. It's really complicated and individual. Depends on lots of other factors. YMMV. He did not have signs of fatty liver disease.

This is an accurate statement. But it is far more likely that the alcohol is doing far more damage than it has capacity to help. 

Stroker, talk to your health provider and see if a Liver Function Test is covered.  I was going to have one done when my fingernails started delaminating from their beds, they suggested a functions test to see if I would live through the poisons used to combat this; PASS - will live with it.

The Test may ease your conscience and show you a direction to jump if indeed you have an issue at all.

Good luck.

914Driver said:

Stroker, talk to your health provider and see if a Liver Function Test is covered.  I was going to have one done when my fingernails started delaminating from their beds, they suggested a functions test to see if I would live through the poisons used to combat this; PASS - will live with it.

The Test may ease your conscience and show you a direction to jump if indeed you have an issue at all.

 

Good luck.

Well, I started the thread six months ago and my doc says that the tests in which I was interested aren't covered by my insurance.  She says there's nothing in my current bloodwork that gives her any concern at all so there's no need to pursue it further.  I'm still going to try and get the diet/exercise going but I'd be happier if I had a complete blood workup in pocket. 

Y'know, it'd be nice if various labs could accept that sort of work on a cash basis just for the extra income...

stroker said:

914Driver said:

Stroker, talk to your health provider and see if a Liver Function Test is covered.  I was going to have one done when my fingernails started delaminating from their beds, they suggested a functions test to see if I would live through the poisons used to combat this; PASS - will live with it.

The Test may ease your conscience and show you a direction to jump if indeed you have an issue at all.

 

Good luck.

Well, I started the thread six months ago and my doc says that the tests in which I was interested aren't covered by my insurance.  She says there's nothing in my current bloodwork that gives her any concern at all so there's no need to pursue it further.  I'm still going to try and get the diet/exercise going but I'd be happier if I had a complete blood workup in pocket. 

Y'know, it'd be nice if various labs could accept that sort of work on a cash basis just for the extra income...

This is the type of BS that makes me angry. And it is only getting worse. We're paying more, getting less, and the care continues to be hamstrung by insurance companies (as well as a bunch of other issues), and we continue to pretend it is ok.

The. System. Is. Broken. 

sorry, need to lighten this up some.

In reply to mtn :