Long distance R/C airplane

I've done quite a few R/C planes in my time. This is, of course, before kids and such. Back then it was trying not to crash. I have an interesting goal that's bouncing along in my head.

With a combination of solar panels and some intelligent battery charging systems, can a R/C plane be made to be more or less self sufficient in terms of motor/radio power?

I'm thinking something along the lines of a glider, long thin wings, good glide ratio, relatively robust and yet somewhat light. Size is wide open.

Can I connect a camera from the plane to some method of transferring the images back in real time? Yeah, like a drone. Do I buy a smartphone, connect it to the battery charging system, make some sort of data link and do this through a laptop? Is there a more clever way to do it?

The end goal would be to have a plane I can fly for days, literally, if not longer. I'll take off in my backyard and fly to some other state and back over the course of many days. I'll obviously have to get clever with some sort of autopilot, and learn to avoid the weather, but it could work.

Right?

Jeez next you'll want it to go to a far away land, use boosters to keep it at a given height and drop a payload within 10' accuracy.

Not RC, but way cool nonetheless. Check you tube or your favorite torrent site. James May did a 'James May's toy's' episode with a free flight glider last year. He found that the longest flight record by a non-radio controlled plane was an achievable goal. He started off by aiming to fly from Britain to Froggy land, but the Cheese eating surrender monkeys complained that it would be a drone or something and got all rule bookie on them. Instead he tried for a similar distance across the severn (yes correct spelling for those this side of the pond) estuary from England to sheep shagger land but weather didn’t' cooperate. Finally he headed West from the main land to Lundy. Very cool and worth watching.

It's all doable at home except the "flying for days" part. NASA tried it, it's not easy:

BTW you might want to look up "RC FPV" since you don't seem to be aware of it

When you say "for days" that's a much bigger requirement than charging as fast as it uses power in sunlight. Assuming sunny days and 12 hours of sunlight, it would have to charge more than twice as fast as it consumes in direct sunlight. Plus, it would need batteries that hold enough energy to get through the night.

To make it through a night would be quite difficult. To make it through a 2nd or 3rd would be even more difficult.

scardeal wrote: When you say "for days" that's a much bigger requirement than charging as fast as it uses power in sunlight. Assuming sunny days and 12 hours of sunlight, it would have to charge more than twice as fast as it consumes in direct sunlight. Plus, it would need batteries that hold enough energy to get through the night. To make it through a night would be quite difficult. To make it through a 2nd or 3rd would be even more difficult.

I know 'difficult', but running 10s for 2 grand is difficult too, that's why I asked you guys.

GameboyRMH wrote: BTW you might want to look up "RC FPV" since you don't seem to be aware of it

I did know about Pathfinder, but I was under the impression previous to this that it was more or less successful.

I looked that up, but their solutions seem to be based on wireless RF at more like a mile. What if I want to explore the south pole from my living room? OK, maybe not that, but somewhere that was covered by cell phone tower/satellite coverage.

There have been some interesting developments in solar cells, too. Like a sheet of plastic, could be made into wing shape? Also, new super capacitors are being developed that could be used in place of batteries, but that is classified military stuff.

A lighter than air craft would have several advantages over a motor glider. In terms of spatial orientation, there’d be no need for roll and pitch / yaw would be far less sensitive…can’t stall and transition rate would be far slower. Continuous power to maintain altitude wouldn’t be required as you’d be “net” neutrally buoyant…net as you would climb during the day and descend during the night due to the change in density altitude. The real challenge would be to have an average cruising speed equal to or greater than the average wind speed so you wouldn’t get blown down wind.

Helium is for Bob Costa’s, go with hydrogen as it’s far cheaper and provide something like 20% greater lifting force.

tuna55 wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote: BTW you might want to look up "RC FPV" since you don't seem to be aware of it

I did know about Pathfinder, but I was under the impression previous to this that it was more or less successful. I looked that up, but their solutions seem to be based on wireless RF at more like a mile. What if I want to explore the south pole from my living room? OK, maybe not that, but somewhere that was covered by cell phone tower/satellite coverage.

Then you'd be better off using IP-based control with a semi-autonomous RC. Satellite data is $$$$.

cwh wrote: There have been some interesting developments in solar cells, too. Like a sheet of plastic, could be made into wing shape? Also, new super capacitors are being developed that could be used in place of batteries, but that is classified military stuff.

Actually you can get super-capacitors off the shelf now but solar-charging plastic is still sci-fi stuff

RX Reven' wrote: A lighter than air craft would have several advantages over a motor glider. In terms of special orientation, there’d be no need for roll and pitch / yaw would be far less sensitive…can’t stall and transition rate would be far slower. Continuous power to maintain altitude wouldn’t be required as you’d be “net” naturally buoyant…net as you would climb during the day and descend during the night due to the change in density altitude. The real challenge would be to have an average cruising speed equal to or greater than the average wind speed so you wouldn’t get blown down wind. Helium is for Bob Costa’s, go with hydrogen as it’s far cheaper and provide something like 20% greater lifting force.

This was an idea I had, otherwise similar to Tuna55's...but it is definitely not cheap.

In fact that reminds me, there's a solar-powered Hyperblimp you can buy. The motors are driven directly from solar cells inside the transparent envelope.

Again, REALLY not cheap though.

GameboyRMH wrote:

RX Reven' wrote: A lighter than air craft would have several advantages over a motor glider. In terms of special orientation, there’d be no need for roll and pitch / yaw would be far less sensitive…can’t stall and transition rate would be far slower. Continuous power to maintain altitude wouldn’t be required as you’d be “net” naturally buoyant…net as you would climb during the day and descend during the night due to the change in density altitude. The real challenge would be to have an average cruising speed equal to or greater than the average wind speed so you wouldn’t get blown down wind. Helium is for Bob Costa’s, go with hydrogen as it’s far cheaper and provide something like 20% greater lifting force.

This was an idea I had, otherwise similar to Tuna55's...but it is definitely not cheap. In fact that reminds me, there's a solar-powered Hyperblimp you can buy. The motors are driven directly from solar cells inside the transparent envelope. Again, REALLY not cheap though.

I like this idea.

Are there really durable-enough bladders for these things so that I could get to some real altitude if I wished? I'd have to figure out a good way to change my density too, maybe some sort of vertically mounted prop. Make a helicopter/blimp combo.

So now to make it fast, like 25mph fast. Also, no need for autopilot. I could just leave it hanging in space, or leave it charging ahead at 25 mph.

Your all on some list now..

Wait.. Crap so am I

The FAA won't like your plan. Their motto is " We are not happy until you are unhappy". I am not an expert on the regulations. The number 400' above ground level and within visual range of the operator or 1mile, which ever is less, pop to mind.

I think the FAA steals their happiness from you. Example..

FAA: Everyone wants lower barriers to flight..
Person: Getting excited
FAA: Lets make a class of plane that requires no liscence to operate, no inspections, and is cheap to purchase
Person: Getting Really excited.. near happy
FAA: Lets allow those planes to be flown from anywhere including your backyard
Person: Genuinely happy with the proposal the FAA is making
FAA: And that plane can only weight 254lbs and be made out of tent poles..
Person: Unhappy

SO... you need a plane that will go about 800MPH (in america.. faster in mexico, and slower in canada). then you go from east to west, and never run out of sun.

pilotbraden wrote: The FAA won't like your plan. Their motto is " We are not happy until you are unhappy". I am not an expert on the regulations. The number 400' above ground level and within visual range of the operator or 1mile, which ever is less, pop to mind.

Yep FPV flying out of visual range (you know...where you might want FPV) is basically illegal.

GameboyRMH wrote:

pilotbraden wrote: The FAA won't like your plan. Their motto is " We are not happy until you are unhappy". I am not an expert on the regulations. The number 400' above ground level and within visual range of the operator or 1mile, which ever is less, pop to mind.

Yep FPV flying out of visual range (you know...where you might want FPV) is basically illegal.

We're talking technical issues right now - legal stuff we can handle later.

Remember what all those congresspeople said: We have people who figure out how to make this stuff constitutional later on after we pass it.

So we're trying to find something that can stay in flight as long as possible? Doesn't need to be fast, big, or any of that...just stay in the air?

If that's the case, you'd only need solar cells to power a battery for powered flight when you can't glide.

Sounds like an interest challenge. Currently the record longest rc flight was like 40 hours? Someone also flew across the country in a glider.

tuna55 wrote: So now to make it fast, like 25mph fast. Also, no need for autopilot. I could just leave it hanging in space, or leave it charging ahead at 25 mph.

Really? You can build them cheap with OTS stuff these days, and for a data-connected RC you'll be forced to buy most of the stuff you'd need anyway...

GameboyRMH wrote:

tuna55 wrote: So now to make it fast, like 25mph fast. Also, no need for autopilot. I could just leave it hanging in space, or leave it charging ahead at 25 mph.

Really? You can build them cheap with OTS stuff these days, and for a data-connected RC you'll be forced to buy most of the stuff you'd need anyway...

Alright, send me links. I want to stay aloft, and I want the ability to pause midflight, and I want this thing to be able to fly cross country without a hiccup.

PHeller wrote: So we're trying to find something that can stay in flight as long as possible? Doesn't need to be fast, big, or any of that...just stay in the air? If that's the case, you'd only need solar cells to power a battery for powered flight when you can't glide. Sounds like an interest challenge. Currently the record longest rc flight was like 40 hours? Someone also flew across the country in a glider.

well, yes, but I want it to go places. A helium balloon with ballast and a camera will stay aloft, roughly right above my house, for years.

I'd like to stay aloft for days. Like, I'll tie a message to it and fly it to your house for fun.

Ran across 2 problems with the plan: It turns out there's no OTS control computer/autopilot with GSM control capability. These guys are trying to hack it on to the common ArduPilot:

http://www.diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/cellular-modem-with-ardupilot

Second, there is no control computer/autopilot made for blimps. They're available for fixed-wing and multicopter but not blimps. The fixed wing model might handle controlling a blimp but I wouldn't bet on it.

So you have 2 problems here that conflict with the basics of your idea. They could be solved with one solution, but it's not an easy one: A custom autopilot/control computer. You could modify an open-source design like the ArduPilot.

Also, once you complete a model that can navigate long distances autonomously, especially with any payload, you might want to expect a visit from homeland security.