Manufacturer survey about dealer

I was thinking about how to explain the survey system so people would really understand it. Here's what I've come up with...

10 = Good

0-9 = Bad

It's really just a pass or fail, but there's false degrees of failing. They just make you think you're being nice.

That's the easiest way I can think of to describe it.

I got nailed with a 50 in Toyota's system by a girl who had no reason at all to do so. Everything went perfect: parts were in stock, her car was fixed quickly on the first visit, she was happy with the car, we had a rapport (very important!) and I explained the survey to her so it really shocked me when the bad survey came back. The service manager and I called her from his office to ask what happened.

She dinged me because of a problem with the F&I (Finance and Insurance) office and it appeared she did not realize the survey graded me, not them (even after it was explained). I heard her say on speakerphone that Curmudgeon did an exemplary job and that she had no problem at all with her service visit.

Toyota has an appeals system, she wrote a letter retracting the poor survey etc but the damage was done because it came too close to the end of the report period to get straightened out, the correction rolled over into the next reporting period. That mistake on her part cost me about $750.00 between the manufacturer and in-house CSI target being missed. Nice.

So you studly 'nobody's perfect and will never deserve a 10/10' types keep on keepin' it real, ya hear?

The one that sticks out in my head it this...

We had a really good customer call and ask if we could do an oil change and rotate before they went out of town. It was 10am and they were leaving at noon. I told them we were slammed but I'd get it done. Then they asked if we could pick it up and bring it back... For you, of course. Then they asked if we could wash it. My wash guy isn't the fastest, but he's good. I informed them that if we had time, we sure would. She said, if it's running too close, then don't worry about it.

Picked it up, did the work, was about to wash it and I looked at the clock, 10-till, oh hell... Hauled it over there in a hurry and handed them the keys at 11:58. "Thank you so much, we really appreciate everything you guys do for us!"

2 weeks go by and I get a survey back. I got dinged on it because they weren't completely satisfied we didn't wash the vehicle. Nevermind I had to take guys off other customer's vehicles to get theirs picked up and returned. I didn't wash it because I didn't have time and you told me that was OK and I STILL get dinged?!

Had another one where the salesman kept falling through on the customer but they dinged me because the warranty repairs done as a dealership vehicle (rather than be in the customer's name) took longer than he liked. I got dinged bigtime on that.

Oh well...

I would love to see them change the surveys to allow the customer to actually give feedback. Basically you dealer guys are telling me no matter what you do give you 10s so you get paid. I'm sorry what if me the one doing the paying wasn't satisfied because there where easy obvious thing you could have done to make my experience better? What if I really just recieved ok service? I'm very sorry your bonus is based only on customers giving 10s. My bonus is based on our company making money. I don't get furious at customers when they don't buy enough of our stuff for that to happen.

I'm sorry that your corrupt work environment sucks, Curmudgeon, and that people giving realistic grades takes money out of your pocket because a million dollar consulting firm decided that would be the best thing to do with the CEO as they laughed about the plight of the plebes over single malt scotches served diluted with the tears of hourly workers.

I refuse to think that satisfactory service is a 10/10. As I said, 10/10 is exceptional. If it is is a pass/fail survey, it should be a pass/fail survey. You've made it clear that this is not going to change because the tear-drinking CEO doesn't care and wants to take money out of your pocket.

Likewise, the definition of satisfactory and average is a moving target. As different dealerships and businesses start adding more and more things (free car wash with any oil change, whatever) that becomes the new standard and you'll have to do more.

Things are the same everywhere. I bust my ass at my job, and I've never been graded about a "meets expectations" because busting ass, working overtime and providing what others consider "exceptional" service has become the average where I work. Everyone wants to exceed expectations and get a bonus, but there comes a point where only those really hungry enough will put in the the extra effort to get further right on the bell curve.

This costs me money out of my pocket, too.

My boss told me (and this is a quote): "You don't have to like it, it isn't going to change."

I just happen to understand that unless I am doing something exceptional, I am just going to be meeting expectations.

Obviously, this makes me an shiny happy person.

Here's the deal. We tell the customers that if they weren't completely satisfied, to let us know and we'll try to resolve it before they send in the survey.

That gives the service advisor time to fix whatever problems the customer had. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Brett_Murphy wrote: snipped to focus on relevant info Obviously, this makes me an shiny happy person.

Indeed.

rotard wrote: Some of you guys are real shiny happy people. You know that they need perfect scores to get their bonus or whatever. Why not just give it to them? The only time I don't give a 10 is if they've done a crappy job. You people probably tried to berkeley over classmates when grading each other's tests in school. You also probably hose any employees you have when it comes to promotions/raises during eval time. "I don't believe in giving excellent scores, so you got a 5/10 for competence, which is average. I'm not really putting you at a disadvantage against other employees with different managers, even if they give 9 and 10/10 for most categories."

The biggest problem - how many members of the general public are aware of the pay rules? If I wasn't aware that a mechanic would have financial consequences for how I filled out a survey, I would probably put whatever appeared to be average result for average service. If I was aware that a particular number is a passing grade, I'd only go below it if the service failed. But I'm not sure how many surveys I've had when this may have been the case and I was completely unaware of it.

There was one time I had a phone survey that I was somewhat annoyed by - they'd just called at a bad time, or something. The surveyor asked me to rate something with "any number between 1 and 10." I chose 2.5 times pi. Yes, that was probably being a shiny happy person, but that number is between 1 and 10. If they needed integers, they should have specified integers in the question. IIRC, I only gave that answer after she'd previously asked for "any number between 1 and 10" in another category, then wouldn't take 6 and a half.

One of the funnier stories I've heard was about a surveyer who asked a customer to explain why he was only "satisfied" instead of "exceptionally satisfied" with their billing service. His answer: "Because it's a bill!"

MadScientistMatt wrote: One of the funnier stories I've heard was about a surveyer who asked a customer to explain why he was only "satisfied" instead of "exceptionally satisfied" with their billing service. His answer: "Because it's a bill!"

Some may laugh at this, but that's pretty much how I think. You want a 10/10? Fix my car for free. How the heck can you expect me to be doing backflips when I just forked over a few days' worth of pay for something the manufacturer could have designed and built a little better?

Why not complain about whoever it was who thought up these silly surveys in the first place and then decreed that anything less than 10/10 is a failure, rather than complaining about the customers who may or may not understand how they are being used?

In reply to rotard:

Alright, let me explain it like this:

Excellence is a moving target. What was excellent service at one point in time becomes the standard as we move forward. A prime example of this is getting your oil changed. Now, everyone who uses a shop to get their oil changed expects it to take less than 30 minutes and they expect to have their windshield washer topped off, tires inflated to the proper PSI, mats vacuumed and their windows washed.

From my viewpoint that is acceptable 5/10 service. If the guy doing that gets dinged in a survey if I give in a 5/10 because I am a customer and that is what I expect. If he were to point out that one of my tires was flat and fixed it for free, I'd give them a 10/10 for that visit, because they exceeded the service I expected.

I don't give a flying berkeley that if I don't give them a 10/10 every other time it will hurt their pocket because if they want that 10/10, they can earn it. Exceed my expectations and wow me. Put in the extra effort and wow me. The problem with that is that you don't work for me, you work for the manager/owner/whatever and they are the ones that work for me.

The manager/owner/whatever is also trying to do the least work for the highest profit. There is a direct conflict of interest between the person that works for me and my interests and the people getting 5/10 on a survey are caught in the middle, but that isn't my problem.

Like I said, go the extra mile for me and I'll give you that 10/10. You're just not going to get it for doing what I expected to happen for my money in the first place. It is not a value proposition for me; instead it is in my best interest to make you work a little harder for the same money.

That is the point I am trying to make.

Glad I read this! My wife just had a new starter put in her G20. It took a few days to order the part, but we got a nice new G37X loaner car for no charge, the guy was very polite, the guestimated quote was only off by $6, etc...

Was it absolutely exceptional? no, they didn't do a super job washing the thing (which they did for free, might I add), they didn't have coffee in the waiting room, and I would've prefered a nice Ferrari 458 from the dealer next door as a loaner, but none of that could be held against them (except for the coffee thing). Above average? yes. They fixed the problem I had in a reasonable amount of time for the price they quoted beforehand. According to the wording in the survey we got, that would place the whole thing at a 7 out of 10. We still gave them 10's because, according to this thread, anything less would bring trouble to a guy who was polite, helpful, honest, etc...

I really couldn't think of a reasonable thing they could do to make the experience beyond exceptional. Also, for the record, "average" in that survey was 4/10. Do they really expect the service people to give you a free puppy every time you come in, or suffer the wrath of an angry boss?

Rufledt wrote: I really couldn't think of a reasonable thing they could do to make the experience beyond exceptional. Also, for the record, "average" in that survey was 4/10. Do they really expect the service people to give you a free puppy every time you come in, or suffer the wrath of an angry boss?

Pretty much.

Conquest's bit about the wash job is pretty typical. In this age of instant gratification via cell phone etc people's expectations have become unreasonable.

Think about it: pick up car, change oil, rotate tires, deliver car. In two hours with NO advance notice. Time limit set by customer. Time limit does not allow time for wash job so does not get done. Service advisor is now an shiny happy person in eyes of customer and gets a E36 M3 survey. Truth: customer is a whiny bitch.

Brett_Murphy wrote: I'm sorry that your corrupt work environment sucks, Curmudgeon, and that people giving realistic grades takes money out of your pocket because a million dollar consulting firm decided that would be the best thing to do with the CEO as they laughed about the plight of the plebes over single malt scotches served diluted with the tears of hourly workers. I refuse to think that satisfactory service is a 10/10. As I said, 10/10 is exceptional. If it is is a pass/fail survey, it should be a pass/fail survey. You've made it clear that this is not going to change because the tear-drinking CEO doesn't care and wants to take money out of your pocket. Likewise, the definition of satisfactory and average is a moving target. As different dealerships and businesses start adding more and more things (free car wash with any oil change, whatever) that becomes the new standard and you'll have to do more. Things are the same everywhere. I bust my ass at my job, and I've never been graded about a "meets expectations" because busting ass, working overtime and providing what others consider "exceptional" service has become the average where I work. Everyone wants to exceed expectations and get a bonus, but there comes a point where only those really hungry enough will put in the the extra effort to get further right on the bell curve. This costs me money out of my pocket, too. My boss told me (and this is a quote): "You don't have to like it, it isn't going to change." I just happen to understand that unless I am doing something exceptional, I am just going to be meeting expectations. Obviously, this makes me an shiny happy person.

No, I think you are the typical product of this instant gratification age.

It appears the only person that you have to impress each day is your boss. The service advisor has to please at least 20 people every day, day in and day out, with this exceptional service you expect. Not to mention their boss.

I suggest you get on the front lines of dealing with the public day in and day out for a year or so, then report back and we will see how you feel about it then.

The problem I see here is the inability of some to see that it is not a grade out of 10, it is simply a Pass/Fail survey.

As a customer we need to forget the, "It's not perfect" detail completely and realise that the car was fixed, on time and politely, if so then Pass the damn survey.

It's simple really.

Now where are the efficiency experts who gave 1 place for a pass and 9 for a failing grade, I have a foot for their arse.

Datsun1500 wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote: No, I think you are the typical product of this instant gratification age.

I think that is pretty condescending. Look at it from a customer standpoint: I bring my car in for an oil change, what do I expect? I expect a hello from the adviser, sitting in a nice waiting room, and the work done in a reasonable amount of time (If you advertise 30 minute oil changes, that is what I expect). Lets say you do all of that and I get my car back as expected, is that a 10? Is that exceptional? No, that's reasonable. If I get it back in 20, and it's washed, that's a 10 because that is above what I expected. I expect what you advertise, If I get exactly that, then I consider that average. If Sears advertises a socket kit on sale I expect to be able to walk in the store, find one, and pay for it. That is average. If the Sears guy asked if everything was "exceptional" would you say yes?

I've worked at dealerships and been hosed on CSI surveys many times. Probably lost a few thousand dollars that I EARNED by doing the best job that I could.

People who turn in low surveys need to know that the advisers see those surveys. They see your names on the surveys. They either make mental notes or just flat out write comments in the computer or on your paper files that indicate that you turned in a low survey. That in turn means that you will never get the benefit of the doubt on a judgmental warranty call. There will never be any extra coupons laying around for you to use. When you call to schedule an appointment, it might "accidentally" get deleted out of the system so the advisor that took your appointment doesn't have to deal with when you show up (now unscheduled). In short, nobody will ever go the extra mile to help you out when you need a last minute appointment.

You berkeleyed them, and they are going to berkeley you right back. Enjoy!

They just really don't get it, do they? God damn am I happy I got out of the retail service business as soon as I could work something other than a part time job.

You are taking money away from someone if you do not give them the "perfect rating". It is not a system that is designed to reward an employee, it is a system that is designed to punish them by creating incredible expectations of what "excellent" is.

I honestly can't believe the gall of some people, to say that they'd purposefully trash somebody so they didn't get extra money at their job. Yes, you ARE shiny happy people if you think like that.

If you had the opportunity to give a decent enough human being extra cash that did not come out of your pocket, would you? I would because I am not an ASSHOLE.

Can we get a running list of what grade to give on surveys for each industry in which we might get a survey?

So far i'm gathering that anytime you have anything done in the auto industry, you should give a 100% 10/10 perfect score no matter what.

You same people wouldn't happen to be the ones that weren't giving me 10/10s when i worked front line in the Health Insurance industry would you? Naaaaahhhh of course not!

So what do we give everyone else? Let's start a running list so there's no more confusion and everyone can be happy.

Next rule of thumb: Grade every satisfaction survey you get anytime you call any sort of customer service center as a 100% 10/10 Perfect. We get bonuses. It's not our fault our industry sucks and we can't help you and shine your shoes over the phone.

Here's a third for the night: Anytime you get a survey invitation on your receipt when you go out for dinner, fill it out. ALWAYS give 100% 10/10 Perfect. Those people have to eat and they earned that perfect survey result no matter if you feel otherwise or don't feel that you understand the survey process.

Inb4 someone who works at a dealership in this thread says i probably didn't deserve perfect scores because my attitude sucks.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: snip

Nobody is saying give someone with a bad attitude/bad service a good score. If you have a legitimate concern, why would someone have a problem with you expressing that?

But that's not what this thread is about. It's about service work being performed in a perfectly fine manner, but getting dinged anyways for not being "perfect" or "exceptional"

I know what the thread is about... that's why i'm suggesting that we create a list so we can educate everyone on how they're expected to score the surveys.

No need to really read that far into it. Let's make a list so there's no reason for this utterly ridiculous thread on this forum again. (I say "again" because this is at least the third time that i remember this particular discussion being had in the last couple years, but this is by far the ugliest iteration.) At the least, it'll save some obnoxious condescending statements from getting posted on this little "safe house" portion of the internet.

Sound like a plan?

HiTempguy wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: snip

But that's not what this thread is about. It's about service work being performed in a perfectly fine manner, but getting dinged anyways for not being "perfect" or "exceptional"

Thankfully the company I worked for recently changed its approach to the survey. It went from a call-in system to a web-only interface, so that customers can say exactly what we did right, and what we didn't do right. The verbiage that customers provide actually makes the survey a useful tool. The numbers are still there, but they have been emphasized a lot less now that we have actual information that we can use.

Just a note from the OP.

My survey was about sales, not service. I figure the same rules apply. I think I'm going to not send the survey in.

I don't want to ding anybody, but I can't bring myself to go out of my way to pat someone extra-hard on the back for making me sit around and bargain for four and a half hours to get to basically sticker price.

Did I buy it? Yes. I can't really complain. And I don't know they they really don't throw the VIP program I was using out the window on "limited production and extra special" models like the WRX. But I think I would just feel used.

So, I abstain. I gather this doesn't ding anybody.

If they send me a survey about the service, I don't have a problem giving them a ten of ten. I showed up when we agreed, they met their specified time frame for taking care of stuff. I'm glad they offered me the option of skipping the complimentary wash since I was in a hurry, instead of just tying the car up for the longest duration they'd estimated and giving it back to me clean...

Also...

I did fill out another survey which had no "how good was your experience" component. It was all "how did you decide to buy a Subaru?"

Gawd that thing made no sense. The worst part was asking about the first place I saw a WRX, including the option "at an event".

Well, the first place I saw a WRX was at an autocross, so I selected that. Apparently I was supposed to guess that "event" meant "Subaru promotional event", so it asked me a bunch of questions I couldn't back out of about the brochures, advertisements, etc...

Surveys I think are useless more often than they're sane...

jimbob_racing wrote: I've worked at dealerships and been hosed on CSI surveys many times. Probably lost a few thousand dollars that I EARNED by doing the best job that I could. People who turn in low surveys need to know that the advisers see those surveys. They see your names on the surveys. They either make mental notes or just flat out write comments in the computer or on your paper files that indicate that you turned in a low survey. That in turn means that you will never get the benefit of the doubt on a judgmental warranty call. There will never be any extra coupons laying around for you to use. When you call to schedule an appointment, it might "accidentally" get deleted out of the system so the advisor that took your appointment doesn't have to deal with when you show up (now unscheduled). In short, nobody will ever go the extra mile to help you out when you need a last minute appointment. You berkeleyed them, and they are going to berkeley you right back. Enjoy!

I've gotten hosed out of thousands of dollars worth of bonuses in the last 3 years because of customer satisfaction surveys (that don't even apply to me any longer) that are weighed entirely too much within in my global job title.

Does this mean i get to start denying your health care claims?