My take on bicycle commuting.

frenchyd said:

Minneapolis has a pretty good bike system. Trouble is we have winter as much as 6 months of the year and frankly bicycles in the winter don’t make sense.  I do see a few big tire bikers riding the bike trails in the winter and a few really determined bike riders  riding pretty late in the year. 

There are quite a few bike commuters in my office, and most of them are pretty hard core - they ride all winter, regardless of the weather.  On my commute I pass by the bike paths around the Minneapolis lakes and along the 28th street corridor (formerly a train track for those from out of town), and you'll see a surprising amount of riders year round.  As mentioned most of them switch to fat tire bikes in the winter, but not all.

35 years ago I had a roommate who was a professional bike racer; he didn't even own a car so a bicycle was his only means of transportation.  In the summer he'd do things like go for a 200 mile bike ride just for the heck of it, and be home that night.  On the other hand, biking in the winter wasn't as big as it is now, so he kind of stuck out like a sore thumb when he was riding to work at the bike shop in January.

frenchyd said:

In reply to bigeyedfish :

 You make sense from your perspective, however my route starts at 5:30am about when garbage trucks and delivery trucks first get moving.its also dark usually especially in the winter.  I’m mostly on residential roads. Some very narrow and I swear laid out by a drunken snake. I’ve got places where I have to go around blind curves followed by blind curves. 

My speed is carefully controlled and with the security systems on modern school buses tracked by the school, my company, the district, occasionally the parents. And myself. 

My time schedule requires me to be at this stop by 6:24 and the next by 6:25. The tax payers want me as fast as possible The parents often are waiting and will call in if I’m a minute down ( they can’t leave for work until the child gets on my bus.) 

I have a given time to drop my kids off at school or I’m late which will cost my company.  

Long stop lights, slow traffic, kids late to the bus stop, none of it is counted for. In short I’m hustling so I need to get past you because you are holding me up.  

Its not unusual to pass garbage trucks etc and we take up the whole road on residential streets when we meet or pass each other  

Ride in the lane!? I’ve got to stop at whatever speed I’m going (25-30-40 mph) ?  Those kids don’t wear seat belts  ( they are safer without them )  and I have a second to decide to do a head on collision with a garbage truck  or you?  

Like I said, I’ll always give a rider a break if I can. I’ll slow down and wait until it’s clear.  Swing into the other lane to give you room. 

But up to 77 kids and me or you riding in the lane?  

If you have to ride in the lane to be safe, maybe you should reconsider your choice of vehicle?  

Not only that but I mentioned my tail swing 13 feet capable of swatting you right off your bike and I can’t see behind me very well.  

Worse the bus is 40 feet long. No, it doesn’t bend in the middle like a Semi truck. It takes up lanes going around a corner or tight curves.  The inside back tire will jump over the curb and run way up on the grass if forced to stay in one lane. People have knocked down streetlights and telephone poles with buses.  

You may think your safe because you’re a foot away from the bus only to be run over by the rear duals. 

There are so many bad arguments and excuses in this post that I'm not going to address them all.  I will say this.  You have no more legal right to be driving a bus on the streets you described than somebody else has to be riding a bike on those same streets.  Are some cyclists shiny happy people?  Yep.  Are some bus drivers shiny happy people?  Yep.  If you're ever driving a bus in such a way that you "have a second to decide to do a head on collision with a garbage truck  or you", you were already driving negligently and putting lives at risk.

Wow, Frenchy.  WTF.  I hope I'm never on a bike near a bus driver like you.

bigeyedfish said:

frenchyd said:

In reply to bigeyedfish :

 You make sense from your perspective, however my route starts at 5:30am about when garbage trucks and delivery trucks first get moving.its also dark usually especially in the winter.  I’m mostly on residential roads. Some very narrow and I swear laid out by a drunken snake. I’ve got places where I have to go around blind curves followed by blind curves. 

My speed is carefully controlled and with the security systems on modern school buses tracked by the school, my company, the district, occasionally the parents. And myself. 

My time schedule requires me to be at this stop by 6:24 and the next by 6:25. The tax payers want me as fast as possible The parents often are waiting and will call in if I’m a minute down ( they can’t leave for work until the child gets on my bus.) 

I have a given time to drop my kids off at school or I’m late which will cost my company.  

Long stop lights, slow traffic, kids late to the bus stop, none of it is counted for. In short I’m hustling so I need to get past you because you are holding me up.  

Its not unusual to pass garbage trucks etc and we take up the whole road on residential streets when we meet or pass each other  

Ride in the lane!? I’ve got to stop at whatever speed I’m going (25-30-40 mph) ?  Those kids don’t wear seat belts  ( they are safer without them )  and I have a second to decide to do a head on collision with a garbage truck  or you?  

Like I said, I’ll always give a rider a break if I can. I’ll slow down and wait until it’s clear.  Swing into the other lane to give you room. 

But up to 77 kids and me or you riding in the lane?  

If you have to ride in the lane to be safe, maybe you should reconsider your choice of vehicle?  

Not only that but I mentioned my tail swing 13 feet capable of swatting you right off your bike and I can’t see behind me very well.  

Worse the bus is 40 feet long. No, it doesn’t bend in the middle like a Semi truck. It takes up lanes going around a corner or tight curves.  The inside back tire will jump over the curb and run way up on the grass if forced to stay in one lane. People have knocked down streetlights and telephone poles with buses.  

You may think your safe because you’re a foot away from the bus only to be run over by the rear duals. 

There are so many bad arguments and excuses in this post that I'm not going to address them all.  I will say this.  You have no more legal right to be driving a bus on the streets you described than somebody else has to be riding a bike on those same streets.  Are some cyclists shiny happy people?  Yep.  Are some bus drivers shiny happy people?  Yep.  If you're ever driving a bus in such a way that you "have a second to decide to do a head on collision with a garbage truck  or you", you were already driving negligently and putting lives at risk.

Before you judge please get a bus license and see if I’m wrong.  The accident may not be as I describe but it’s already happened at one school I drive to. 

A bike rider weaved between two buses giving the driver virtually no time to react as he hit the bike. 

Luckily the driver  was 100% in the right. Because everyone assumed it was the bus drivers fault or could be made to look like his fault.  Like I said we have camera’s  GPS and about 50 witnesses 

In reply to frenchyd :

But the situation you describe- where it sounds like a bicyclist cut between two busses- is NOT the same as riding in the lane/ 'taking the lane' and behaving just as a vehicle would, which was what your rant seemed to be railing against. I'd expect the same result if a car did tried to jump out between two busses as well- it's stupid no matter who does it. But there are definitely times where it's far safer for EVERYONE (though it may mildly berk with your almighty schedule) that a bike takes over the lane and just doesn't ride off to the side.

On my own commute, there are two places where this is the case: a left turn lane where I've seen FAR too many people just not pay attention and realize that I'm there unless I'm smack in the middle of the lane, and a very steep, narrow road right near my house where if a car tried passing me on the uphill they're likely to hit a car cresting the hill coming the other way (and they'd likely dodge back and run me over to avoid hitting the other car were that to happen)- hence, even though I sometimes have to crawl up that hill in low gear if I don't have enough steam at the end of my ride home to make it up the hill at speed, I sit in the middle of the lane.

Ashyukun (Robert) said:

In reply to frenchyd :

But the situation you describe- where it sounds like a bicyclist cut between two busses- is NOT the same as riding in the lane/ 'taking the lane' and behaving just as a vehicle would, which was what your rant seemed to be railing against. I'd expect the same result if a car did tried to jump out between two busses as well- it's stupid no matter who does it. But there are definitely times where it's far safer for EVERYONE (though it may mildly berk with your almighty schedule) that a bike takes over the lane and just doesn't ride off to the side.

On my own commute, there are two places where this is the case: a left turn lane where I've seen FAR too many people just not pay attention and realize that I'm there unless I'm smack in the middle of the lane, and a very steep, narrow road right near my house where if a car tried passing me on the uphill they're likely to hit a car cresting the hill coming the other way (and they'd likely dodge back and run me over to avoid hitting the other car were that to happen)- hence, even though I sometimes have to crawl up that hill in low gear if I don't have enough steam at the end of my ride home to make it up the hill at speed, I sit in the middle of the lane.

Please go back and carefully reread what I have written. I’ll repeat just a little for your benefit.

I will always give a rider a break. Swing over to the other lane, slow Down or even stop to prevent crowding  him. If I can. 

There are places on my routes where the road is narrow and winding. One blind corner leading into another.  To avoid smashing the top of the bus from low hanging branches I have to drive nearer to the center.  

In addition a 40 foot long bus will cheat in a corner. Unlike your car where the back wheels will follow where the fronts go a bus will”cut the corner”. 

If I kept my front wheels in the lane my back wheels will jump the curb and can take down signs,  trees stoplights Or bicyclists.  

Now please add the narrow nature of some roads.  This bus is 8&1/2 feet wide plus the front eyebrow mirrors. They are out there so the driver can see under his front bumper. In case some  kid crawls under there( it happens often enough that those mirrors are mandated ) 

So are UPS truck’s garbage trucks, dump trucks snow plows. Etc etc etc  a 19 foot wide road isn’t wide enough,  the mirrors will smash into each other. Yet the roads I’m on are often less than 18 feet wide.  

My street is actually less than 18 feet wide!  But then I own 15 feet of it with the neighbor behind me the remaining less than 3 feet.. That’s right, it’s my street!   

I digress

Bus routes are timed to the minute. Parents often have to wait until their child is on the bus before they can go to work.  Some parents have the district on speed dial, or more directly the dispatch office!  

They don’t care that a red light can cost me 3 minutes, slow loading kids more time, traffic, weather, trains on railroad crossings, or events beyond a drivers control.  

They want to get to work.  Same with our arrival at school. Arrive late and there are consequences.  

Drivers have to focus on saving every moment we can safely save.  But we can’t speed the GPS ALARM GOES OFF BACK AT THE DISTRICT! 

A rider on a non marked back road can legally be passed.  Minnesota basic speed law saws I can drive up to 30 mph  on unmarked residential streets.

Few bike riders will be going that fast especially uphill!  

Use your imagination. Can you see a big truck say the garbage truck I mentioned  come around a corner, or pull out from a side street? 

If you’re the driver of the bus what would you do?  Risk up to 77 kids and likely lose your life in a head on collision? Or take the space you need to need to pass the truck safely? 

frenchyd said:

A rider on a non marked back road can legally be passed.  Minnesota basic speed law saws I can drive up to 30 mph  on unmarked residential streets.

Few bike riders will be going that fast especially uphill!  

Use your imagination. Can you see a big truck say the garbage truck I mentioned  come around a corner, or pull out from a side street? 

If you’re the driver of the bus what would you do?  Risk up to 77 kids and likely lose your life in a head on collision? Or take the space you need to need to pass the truck safely? 

If you are passing without a clear enough view of oncoming traffic to be sure you can make the pass safely, you probably aren't doing it legally.

The scenario you are describing should not happen.  Just because you are allowed to pass a cyclist (or pedestrian, or whatever) doesn't mean you can do so with wreckless abandon and just move over and squish them should a garbage truck come your way.

I give it another page before the lock.

Nah, I think it's time. This thread is going downhill faster than a bus full of screaming children.