Opinions on college options for the wee one

My daughter has been accepted to two colleges so far. One is a large state school (Pitt) and she was accepted into their honors program and got a generous scholarship that would leave her with almost no student debt. The other is a prestigious private school (Carnegie Mellon University) that offered a decent financial package, but is way more expensive to begin with and will leave her with a LOT of student debt. (Yes, I am over the moon proud of her and wondering who her real father is because I certainly don't have those brains...)

The question is, is the more prestigious University worth the extra cost? If she was into computer science or engineering, CMU would be the clear winner, but her field is BioChem. Still hard, but does it pay? Do you go to Pitt and start life with no debt? Do you go to CMU and carry that degree and the doors that it opens forever? Do you start at Pitt and then go to grad school at CMU with less debt and the power of both schools behind you?

What would you tell your 17 year old self? (move to the Keys and buy a Miata is not an option)

Is she planning on grad school?

In my experience (Bio major, ended up working in biotech doing lab automation) where you went to school makes little to no difference.

My wife and I both went to a small liberal arts college, she went to grad school for chemistry and I don't think her undergrad degree had much impact on her getting into graduate programs. In my opinion, which is worth exactly what you paid for it, what she does while she's in school will be far more important than where she does it.

Go to Pitt. I don't think there's much if any advantage to going to the other school just because of its name.

I'd say see if you can't start her at Pitt and finish at CMU. I've known a few people in computer science fields that did that and it worked out very well. I'm only a little biased, 2 of my friends parents teach at CMU.

If she's planning on staying in the area, Pitt may be the way to go, but CMU carries weight around the world. I noticed when I was living around the country that Pitt, Seton Hill, Saint Vincent, while obviously big schools around our area are almost unheard of in others.

It's not so much the name of the school, add the diversity of the students. At the more prestigious school, she will have a chance to meet and interact with people from around the world that specialize with her field. That networking and those contacts can pay out far more down the road than the name of the school or even the field of study.

CMU would be one of the few schools that I would be ok with a large pile of student loan debt. PITT though also carries a big name.

Visit both. See what she likes. Then try very hard to steer her towards PITT.

Pitt and no debt.

RevRico wrote: I'd say see if you can't start her at Pitt and finish at CMU. I've known a few people in computer science fields that did that and it worked out very well.

This is not a bad idea either. Two of my sisters graduated from Cornell after transferring in - one from community college. One of them is now in nursing school and the other started a cidery, but their degrees say Cornell.

mtn wrote: CMU would be one of the few schools that I would be ok with a large pile of student loan debt. PITT though also carries a big name. Visit both. See what she likes. Then try very hard to steer her towards PITT.

Just to clarify...

The schools are physically about 2 blocks away from each other.

I'd say Pitt.

When I look at resumes, I do NOT usually care what school somebody went to. I am more interested in what they have done so far in their career.

Pitt.

My wife and I are nearly debt free at 30-32. It is incredibly freeing. She was debt free at 25, which allowed her much more flexibility to earn less than her peers doing something she loved, while paying extra on car payments for a new car.

Meanwhile, I was strapped with college debt (still am for a few thousand), and it burdened my ability to pay rent and build other types of credit.

Lastly, and the final piece of the puzzle of the amount of people our age and slightly older who have tremendous student loan debt at $25k or more, and while they believe that it has allowed them more career movement, my wife and I have done just fine with our Bachelors and 5 years of experience in our respective careers. The highest paid people I know have Bachelors Degrees in IT or Computer Science fields. Everyone else, Masters or not, makes between $40k-$65k. For our friends with Master's degrees, it isn't like they suddenly got huge pay raises to justify spending all that extra money. The biggest determinant in moving up the wage scale is to get experience, and apply that experience towards getting better paying jobs.

So, if your spawn gets out into the world at 23 with no debt, she can decide that she wants to work at Starbucks, or she can go volunteer doing BioTech in Africa, or she can decide to pursue that PhD at CMU with much more freedom than her peers who will be Down-Payment-On-A-House levels of indebted.

If she wants the CMU, tell them "Full ride or no go." Consider it a life lesson in negotiations.

Carnegie Mellon is one of the few schools whose name carries weight no matter what field she eventually lands in. Is there any possibility of transferring to CMU after a year or two at Pitt?

Disclaimer: I'm an anti-debt guy. I've done everything in my power to avoid debt in my adult life, and the debt I have incurred was paid off early.

Having lots of debt before you have your first real job can be crippling. Even with high paying jobs, I've got friends that won't be out of debt until their mid 30s, and that affects every other aspect of their lives. Major milestones like getting married, starting families or buying a house are delayed. Retirement saving is kept to the absolute minimum (if anything). Stress levels tend to be higher when you have a few hundred dollars of income devoted to loans each month.

If she can get 90% of the education for 50% of the cost by going to the less prestigious school, that seems like the winner to me. I'm sure no parent wants to think about it, but if she struggles in school, or changes majors to something with less lucrative career prospects in the middle of college, that debt would be brutal to overcome. That more prestigious degree might help get the first job, but after that employers seem more interested in experience and what you can do, not necessarily what the paper on the wall says.

Before deciding on debt or no debt- I'd check where graduates are going from CMU. They may be getting such great jobs that the debt ends up being a short term thing, and the opportunities are abundant. Carnegie Mellon is a really great school.

Otherwise, I'd suggest Pitt for undergrad and CMU for grad school- it's quite possible that grad school can be for free at a great school if undergrad goes really well. That's how I did it.

The only "drawback" I can see for Pitt is that it's just a big school. My undergrad was at a smaller state school, and I could deal with a big school for grad school.

Dr. Hess wrote: Pitt and no debt.

X2. If she's that smart it's a given she's going to grad school.

alfadriver wrote: Before deciding on debt or no debt- I'd check where graduates are going from CMU. They may be getting such great jobs that the debt ends up being a short term thing, and the opportunities are abundant. Carnegie Mellon is a really great school. Otherwise, I'd suggest Pitt for undergrad and CMU for grad school- it's quite possible that grad school can be for free at a great school if undergrad goes really well. That's how I did it.

I second this and I'll that checking on placements from Pitt would be worthwhile as well.

When in doubt, ALWAYS go the way of reduced debt. ALWAYS.

The college education is precisely what one puts into it. Sure, a prestigious piece of wall art is nice, but unless it's in a flagship degree in a specialized school, it means nothing when compared to other equal degrees.

I'm also a biochem major. I can tell you from experience that, graduate school plans or not, they will be better off busting ass at Pitt and coming out relatively unscathed financially than he/she would racking up debt for the "better" school. CMU is a hell of a school... for engineering and technology. Biochem is a different animal- Employment opportunities are plentiful, but also much more standardized with a B.S. A degree from a super prestigious school might get you a couple thousand more in annual salary, but it won't pay the difference in school loans by even a fraction.

I'm begging you to heed this advice. There's nothing worse than graduating school and being locked into an entry level position and looking at a mountain of debt. I've seen it with friends. It's not worth it.

pinchvalve wrote: What would you tell your 17 year old self?

Avoid student loans at all costs, especially private student loans.

Pitt and no debt. A degree is a degree is a degree. Look at the help wanted ads, do they say "Degree required" or "Degree from XX school required". There are plenty of people with huge student loans working beside someone with no loans and the same degree. Which would you rather be?

What school does she fit well into? Paying nothing for an education she hates and drops out of is a big lose in my book.

I see my debt as a motivator, but then I did very well during Obama's years when everyone was complaining of not doing well.. so I'm probably an outlier. Can't wait for my wife to go back to work and we'll be done with all her debt as well as mine a 18-24 months.

I'd say that going to a state school and then getting a name brand grad degree is the way to go.

MDJeepGuy wrote: Pitt and no debt. A degree is a degree is a degree. Look at the help wanted ads, do they say "Degree required" or "Degree from XX school required". There are plenty of people with huge student loans working beside someone with no loans and the same degree. Which would you rather be?

that depends. High paying and performing companies only want certain degrees from certain schools. I worked for Amazon.. tons of Kelley, MIT, Ross MBA's there.... Tons...

no.. Southern Utah state MBA's..

MDJeepGuy wrote: Pitt and no debt. A degree is a degree is a degree. Look at the help wanted ads, do they say "Degree required" or "Degree from XX school required". There are plenty of people with huge student loans working beside someone with no loans and the same degree. Which would you rather be?

I'd like to expand upon this. Chances are with a B.S. in Biochem, you go 2 directions-

• Back to grad school for a more specialized M.S. degree. In which case, undergrad matters very very little.
• Working somewhere in the Pharma industry. Currently, there are more open Pharma jobs than humans able to fill them. If it were a competitive industry, I'd give more consideration to the school name, but not much. In this case where he/she is almost guaranteed a decent job upon graduation, I'd take all of that free money and wouldn't think twice.

If they're giving you a full ride they want you there.

What kind of career do you think she'll have? You've known her all her life - is she likely to settle into an entry level position and gradually get raises and promotions within or is she going to aim for the stars and start levering up through her field, making "a name" for herself?

Everyone here by now should know I am staunchly anti-superfluous-debt, but sometimes debt is a good thing. It can help you achieve things that would otherwise be impossible. I don't know anything about Pitt and I know nothing about Biochem, but I know the name CMU and I know it means a lot in the right circles. Anyone calling a CMU degree "wall art" is ignoring the fact that it can open doors that otherwise might not be open.

She can live a satisfying middle class - or even upper middle class - existence with a Pitt degree just fine. But if she's a freight train, CMU might help her do more. What that "more" is is up to her.

99.9% of the time, Pitt would be the right choice. Is she the .1%?

I work in biotech in Cambridge (ie somewhere with a large talent pool). I'm 31. Nobody gives a E36 M3 where my undergrad degree is from. Making connections and working hard in undergrad is important, for sure, and alumni networks can make finding jobs easier, but I don't think it would have made one bit of difference if I had gone to a more or less prestigious school. I wouldn't have met my wife if I went somewhere else, so there's that, but you can't exactly quantify that haha.

I'd rather be independent with a little less cache on the wall than well regarded and deep in debt - unless the chosen career is flush enough that money will never be an issue. My oldest son feels differently because he is young and full of optimism. I am failing to make my case here at home with an aspiring star musician who isn't seeing the reality that a future music teacher with a big UARTS loan might have to endure.

Good luck!