Paging combatants| Off-Topic Discussion forum |

Marjorie Suddard General Manager
9/6/23 8:06 a.m.

I went to lock your topic and accidentally deleted it, which makes me sad because one of the responses to that topic was a snippet of the forum rules prohibiting exactly that behavior.
Here it is again for reference:

You will refrain from politics, religion, or droning on long after the rest of the party has walked away from a conversation. Not because these topics are delicious forbidden fruit that you can't have because the world has nambified and now sucks, but because it's rude, and rarely brings a conversation to a good end. Besides, although you can't see it, you look like a shiny happy person standing there in the middle of the room spouting and arguing with yourself. And shiny happy people are not fun.

Thanks, have fun, stay cool, etc.

Margie

edit: Screenshot of post with mod tools so any conspiracy theorists can see the lock and delete buttons right next to each other:

Duke MegaDork
9/6/23 9:40 a.m.

In reply to Marjorie Suddard :

'Conspiracy theorists' LOL.

No need to apologize for emptying the trash bin, ma'am, but some of us definitely appreciate the transparency.

ProDarwin MegaDork
9/6/23 9:44 a.m.

In reply to Marjorie Suddard :

1) Thank you for doing what you do.

2) What does this button do?

bobzilla MegaDork
9/6/23 9:48 a.m.

In reply to ProDarwin :

Push it. Do it! DO IT!

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
9/6/23 9:48 a.m.

Q: what's GRM's favorite kind of ship?

A: [response deleted by admin]

Tom Suddard Director of Marketing & Digital Assets
9/6/23 10:02 a.m.

ProDarwin said:
In reply to Marjorie Suddard :

1) Thank you for doing what you do.

2) What does this button do?

I'd tell you, but then I'd have to bomb you.

JoeTR6 Dork
9/6/23 10:11 a.m.

You really need a cement mixer icon on there, even if it doesn't do anything.

Beer Baron MegaDork
9/6/23 10:16 a.m.

I'll reshare my bar analogy litmus test:

This forum is a lot like a public taproom. There is a big open bar for open public discussions (public topics). The bar is meant to welcome everyone for fun conversation. There are private booths in the corner for separate conversations (private messages).

Would your discussion be appropriate for the communal part of the bar at a pub? Or should you excuse yourself to a private booth?

The bartenders don't really care if you hold strong viewpoints on controversial topics. They care if you start sharing them at the bar in such a manner that it drives away customers. If two people at the bar start getting into a heated argument and everyone else is getting uncomfortable, the bartender will ask them to keep it down. If they don't listen, they'll be asked to leave.

A bartender kicking you out for being obnoxious and beligerent is not censorship.

Duke MegaDork
9/6/23 10:29 a.m.

In reply to Beer Baron :

...unless you're looking for reasons to feel persecuted.

Toyman! MegaDork
9/6/23 10:45 a.m.

Put Em Up GIFs | Tenor

Marjorie Suddard General Manager
9/6/23 11:00 a.m.

Beer Baron said:
I'll reshare my bar analogy litmus test:

This forum is a lot like a public taproom. There is a big open bar for open public discussions (public topics). The bar is meant to welcome everyone for fun conversation. There are private booths in the corner for separate conversations (private messages).

Would your discussion be appropriate for the communal part of the bar at a pub? Or should you excuse yourself to a private booth?

The bartenders don't really care if you hold strong viewpoints on controversial topics. They care if you start sharing them at the bar in such a manner that it drives away customers. If two people at the bar start getting into a heated argument and everyone else is getting uncomfortable, the bartender will ask them to keep it down. If they don't listen, they'll be asked to leave.

A bartender kicking you out for being obnoxious and beligerent is not censorship.

Exactly.

Beer Baron MegaDork
9/6/23 11:22 a.m.

ProDarwin said:
2) What does this button do?

Database Patching Revisited : Take off and nuke the entire site from orbit…

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
9/6/23 10:56 p.m.

This post has received too many downvotes to be displayed.

I missed the deleted thread.

1) This isn't a bar.

2) If you disagree, state why. If you resort to censorship and name calling I'm going to call it what it is. Many of you all disagree but have no actual thoughts on topics that are truly your own, which is why you resort to name calling and censorship. That makes you angry. I guess I'm okay with that. Think about it, form your own ideas. Discuss them. Anytime you insert your "rules" into that process or try to limit the conversation "open and honest" is a lie. I am literally challenging you to have open and honest discussion. I in return expect to be disappointed. I dare you!

3) Conspiracy theory is 100% a term used to silence and stop conversation (censorship). It was first used after the Kennedy assassination which after nearly 60 years is still highly suspicious. Did you know there is a 2nd video, as an example? If you want to state your beliefs, do it. If you use the term conspiracy theory or conspiracy theorist, I know for a fact you have no thoughts on the matter of your own, and you are in fact afraid to discuss the topic. You can insist you aren't afraid, fine. I'm not buying it. You can continue to prove that if you like, but I will never believe that tactic. If you think conspiracy theory / theorist is a valid point, I challenge you to back it up.

If you don't like my point of view, it's America state why. If you can't and resort to ad hominem attacks etc (against the forum rules), why is my response required to be "nice?" Why do the forum rules apply to one side of certain issues and not others? In that case, they aren't valid rules. Zero apologies or actions have ever been taken against posters that have called me names up to telling me to die in a fire (breaking forum rules). Should I respond kindly to that? I'm no saint.

A bartender at a bar? I don't care. I was a sailor, and I already said I'm not a saint. You ever see sailors in a bar? I invite all of you to the Horse and Cow! Try these tactics in a submariner bar. I will bring popcorn!

And to date zero people have offered a counter definition to inflation or censorship. If you can't define something, good luck convincing me I'm not right about it. That's the current tactic in all debates, start the argument in the middle, assume it's too complex to be understood and use a whole lot of words incorrectly. That will not work on me, but you can keep trying if you like. This is the current style of all debates and it is in fact stupid, and also obfuscation of reality, and I think it is done on purpose.

Many of you should read the Federalist papers. Disagreeing is a good thing. A one world view leads to a totalitarian nightmare. If you can't see that, you better start paying attention. History provides plenty of examples and warnings. This forum has a largely one world view. I do not think that is a good thing or leads to a good world for anyone's children. This is largely why I disagree at all. It sure isn't for me. Life for me is easier if I get along with everyone. I do this for my kids and their kids and your kids. Everyone's kids deserve to know the truth. The world isn't being run for their benefit but it should be. The number one goal should be to leave the world a better place like the Boy Scouts do a campsite, only on a way bigger scale. Trust me I'd love to get along nicely, but that's not possible in this world.

Honest discussions about simple things like inflation and high gasoline prices aren't even possible. If you try to broach anything more difficult it rapidly descends into the same crap on talk shows.

Clearly many of you expect better from me. Well I expect better from you in return and rarely get it.

I referred someone to actual legal testimony. They said they wouldn't look at it, and claimed I'd accuse them of witchcraft in reply. That's rubbish. You want me to be nice? It's a two way street. I'm no saint and I'm not ever going to qualify for sainthood. You all might, not me. Give me a silly reply like the above, I can guarantee my response will likely not be what you want or expect.

So do you really expect me to be nice because I disagreed with you? I'd say that very behavior has led to many of societies problems today. Im not going to be nice when people take up bad position they don't have the fortitude to defend. You can call me any array of names you like. You can cry for censorship. You can plead to my sense of niceness. You can scream conspiracy until you lose your voice. If you can't explain it, define the fancy words, and take a position on it, I am not required to accept it.

That said you don't have to accept what I say. I would strongly prefer you look into it yourself and form your own ideas. If you can't do that, I'm not going to spoon feed you all the information. A lot of times it's just a simple question that sets some of you off. I ask questions because I don't have all the answers. If you respond to that with an ad hominem outburst, I'm probably not going to respond in a way you expect or like. If after 300 pages, you ask the same question, I will always wonder why you weren't nice and didn't consider it 300 pages ago. It's a two way street.

I am 100% capable of being nice. I am also 100% honest and analytical.

And for the record, again, since some still don't get it. I think and feel that taking another human life is wrong on moral grounds. I do not care when it's done, how it is done it or why it is done. Taking human life is a bad thing. That said there are individual circumstances and situations specific to certain people that are horrific. Those decisions are left to those people and their families, etc. There are choices and decisions that I hope no one ever has to make, and those cannot be accounted for in broad discussions. I also thing it is wrong to declare what is right for all based on such isolated instances. A lot of things in life are situational and require context. Those instances are not a valid guidepost to decide what is right and wrong for everyone.

pres589 (djronnebaum) UltimaDork
9/6/23 11:01 p.m.

Something that often helps me avoid drama on web forums or social media is, when I see a discussion or topic that might get heated, I ask myself what I am on that forum/site/etc for. If it's not that topic, often I'll slide past it with the knowledge that I've saved my energy for use on better targets. Not saying I'm doing this 100% right but at least I'm rarely involved in locked threads or angry discussions.

There's great people using this site. I like continuing to connect with them and I hope we all have a good time with it.

ddavidv UltimaDork
9/7/23 7:42 a.m.

I don't find the moderation here to be heavy-handed. Y'all get away with a lot of baseless, opinionated commentary before the admins feel they need to step in. I'm frequently surprised some of the topics go as many pages as they do before getting the padlock.

Duke MegaDork
9/7/23 7:45 a.m.

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

Those are mighty rich words coming from someone who acts as if they personally are the sole proprietor of The Truth.

It's easy to think no one has ever effectively countered your declarations when you think everyone else on the planet is wrong.

Duke MegaDork
9/7/23 8:00 a.m.

And, actually, the only reason this forum differs from a bar is that the owners don't sell food or alcohol.

What they DO is provide a gathering space for relaxation, interaction, and entertainment, as a means of making some money.

Functionally, this place serves the same social role as the neighborhood bar does. I think it is a perfect analogy. And there is no reason for the owners to tolerate anyone who threatens to impact their livelihood.

Wally (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
9/7/23 8:07 a.m.

That's a lot of words to say "I think I'm the smartest person I know and believe anyone that disagrees with me is an shiny happy person". Numerous people have countered your arguments over time and you simply dismiss them as idiots each time.

jimbob_racing SuperDork
9/7/23 8:16 a.m.

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:
This post has received too many downvotes to be displayed.

Show/hide post

I come here because I like cars and motorsports.

I do not come here for politics.

Please stop the shenanigans.

NY Nick Dork
9/7/23 8:21 a.m.

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

You are missing the point. The point isn't are you right or wrong. I haven't read any of the bull E36 M3 that have lead to this thread.

The point is your peers and the owners of the forum want you to chill the berkeley out. So if you are a reasonable person just pull the plug on this line of discussion. Talk about cars, talk about towing, talk about track events. If you want to argue the ills of the world go to Facebook, there seems to be high concentration of shiny happy people there that are more than happy to argue with you.

ProDarwin MegaDork
9/7/23 8:24 a.m.

Duke said:
Functionally, this place serves the same social role as the neighborhood bar does. I think it is a perfect analogy.

I'll be honest, the bar analogy doesn't work for me. If this was a single Discord channel, sure. Here it is absolutely possible to go off and discuss other stuff in an area (thread) reserved for that specific conversation, although still public.

IMO the problem isn't that there are a few combative misinformed idiots at the bar arguing with each other or sharing their opinions, the problem is that they keep barging into others conversations and choosing that as their next battleground.

wae PowerDork
9/7/23 8:33 a.m.

jimbob_racing said:
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:
This post has received too many downvotes to be displayed.

Show/hide post

I come here because I like cars and motorsports.

I do not come here for politics.

Please stop the shenanigans.

Dude! Cars rock, don't they? And isn't driving a E36 M3load of fun!?

TJL (Forum Supporter) Dork
9/7/23 8:39 a.m.

At the end of the day, this is a PRIVATELY owned board. In a PRIVATE setting, its a PRIVILEGE to use this space. PRIVILEGE does not guarantee "free speech" and "muh rights".

if anyone does not like the RULES that come with a PRIVILEGE, YOU have the RIGHT to not participate or go elsewhere.

i'll also go further and say that the thing that attracted me to GRM was the lack of fighting, bickering, attacking, flaming and general BULLE36 M3.

Beer Baron MegaDork
9/7/23 9:02 a.m.

ProDarwin said:
I'll be honest, the bar analogy doesn't work for me. If this was a single Discord channel, sure. Here it is absolutely possible to go off and discuss other stuff in an area (thread) reserved for that specific conversation, although still public.

IMO the problem isn't that there are a few combative misinformed idiots at the bar arguing with each other or sharing their opinions, the problem is that they keep barging into others conversations and choosing that as their next battleground.

No analogy is perfect. I was trying to present it concisely.

If you want me to make it more accurate... okay... it's like a German bierhall with a bunch of long public stammtisch tables where people discuss different topics. People regularly get up and move tables.

They're still public discussions that are meant to welcome everyone, and so the patrons are expected to behave appropriately.

Frequently people come in trying to stir up E36 M3. The other people at the table regularly go, "Dude. Stop. This is not the place." When those people don't listen and start yelling louder, or when everyone gets up from the table except for two people yelling back and forth, the proprietors and servers sometimes have to step in and say, "Be quiet, or we're kicking you out."

dyintorace PowerDork
9/7/23 9:06 a.m.

pres589 (djronnebaum) said:
Something that often helps me avoid drama on web forums or social media is, when I see a discussion or topic that might get heated, I ask myself what I am on that forum/site/etc for. If it's not that topic, often I'll slide past it with the knowledge that I've saved my energy for use on better targets. Not saying I'm doing this 100% right but at least I'm rarely involved in locked threads or angry discussions.

There's great people using this site. I like continuing to connect with them and I hope we all have a good time with it.

I follow the same idea - avoid threads where I know it will go (or has gone) downhill. The problem is that the same people keep polluting threads on topics I'm interested in (like what EV would you buy today) and end up derailing them.