Paging combatants

Moderating an open online forum to be a healthy, welcoming, productive, and free place for EVERYONE is an incredibly difficult tightrope to walk. There is no template or format of *any* place that has totally gotten it 100% right. The bigger the community is, the harder that job gets. This forum does the best job that I have found yet.

This presentation talks a lot about why this is difficult. I have qued it up to the segment about "Echo Chambers and Nazi Bars" that explains why it's easy for online communities to devolve: https://youtu.be/leX541Dr2rU?si=or_tkQo2sOmpVlwp&t=2735

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

I can be a real ass at times, but damn if you don't take the cake. You have a knack for sticking a foot in your mouth and then doubling down by trying to stick the other one in there as well. 

This is a privately owned space. You have no freedom of speech. You can be censored any time the owners feel like it. They are the King and Queen of this island. You have no rights. You live or die on here by their whim. It's not just a bar, it's their bar. 

Not only can you be censored, you can be banned from ever posting here again. Frankly, I think they have been extremely lenient with many of us. I would have banned you months ago because at this point your posts add nothing to the conversation and it's getting to the point that you stop the conversation more often than you add to it. That ranks you right up there with frenchyd. Purveyor of rants that no one is interested in reading so everyone abandons the thread except you and the couple of people that are egging you on.  

I would suggest working on your communication skills. I probably agree with a majority of what you post, but you deliver your information in such a caustic way that even I pretty much dismiss what you post. Work toward being reasonable in your speech. Be willing to walk away from the discussion. Be willing to let others disagree with what you think. I try to limit myself to 3-5 responses in a disagreement. At that point, the discussion has stalled and there is no reason to continue it. Thank them for the discussion, move on, and let others have their say. If you do that, people will be more inclined to read what you post and actually consider it rather than dismissing it out of hand and clicking the downvote button. 

This is not a competition. We aren't here to win. We are here to hang out and shoot the breeze. We don't have to belittle each other. We don't even have to agree all the time. If hanging out here is causing you angst, maybe this isn't the right bar for you. There are lots of bars out there. One of them fits. 

Let's break things down to their basics. Grassroots Motorsports, like all media is in the entertainment business. It has done as well as it has because its fun and informative. If something gets in the way of those two factors it hurts GRM, and it hurts all of us who enjoy GRM.  I can think of at least two people who consistently lessen the forum with their attitudes. By that, I mean that they drive people away from this forum and to other sites. As much as I support free discourse, those guys have become liabilities and should be banned, at least temporarily. Someone in the GRM hierarchy needs to make the decision to be the tough guy.

dyintorace said:

pres589 (djronnebaum) said:

Something that often helps me avoid drama on web forums or social media is, when I see a discussion or topic that might get heated, I ask myself what I am on that forum/site/etc for.  If it's not that topic, often I'll slide past it with the knowledge that I've saved my energy for use on better targets.  Not saying I'm doing this 100% right but at least I'm rarely involved in locked threads or angry discussions. 

There's great people using this site.  I like continuing to connect with them and I hope we all have a good time with it.

I follow the same idea - avoid threads where I know it will go (or has gone) downhill. The problem is that the same people keep polluting threads on topics I'm interested in (like what EV would you buy today) and end up derailing them. 

I like to act like I'm above it, but if im being honest, i recheck the E36 M3show threads more often than the good threads. Deep down I just enjoy other people's drama. 

I liked this forum more back when Steve Jones was the problem child. Then he turned out to be pretty darn cool and adhered by the rules.  

I miss ECM...

Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:

 I can think of at least two people who consistently lessen the forum with their attitudes. 

Are you sure it's still two people? 

We're not huge fans of announcing bans publicly. But emails (and bans) have been handed out. 

In reply to gearheadmb :

I have been known to join in the fun. I may have actually egged on certain members that like a particular EV manufacturer. I'll fully admit I can be that guy. 

But, there comes a point where the line is well and truly crossed and when it gets to that point I do my best to step out. 

Scotty Con Queso said:

I liked this forum more back when Steve Jones was the problem child. Then he turned out to be pretty darn cool and adhered by the rules.  

LOL Steve for the win, went from a little salty to top purveyor of wisdom on many issues!

Tom Suddard said:

Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:

 I can think of at least two people who consistently lessen the forum with their attitudes. 

Are you sure it's still two people? 

We're not huge fans of announcing bans publicly. But emails (and bans) have been handed out. 

Runs off to check Email. 

Tom Suddard said:

Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:

 I can think of at least two people who consistently lessen the forum with their attitudes. 

Are you sure it's still two people? 

We're not huge fans of announcing bans publicly. But emails (and bans) have been handed out. 

It's a lot more than two but if that makes e'r'one happy then so be it. 

In reply to Toyman! :

What Anthony doesn't get in his binary world is that most of us would rather be proven wrong than known as a purveyor of BS. I do not mind being proven wrong. That person has done me a favor, because every time that I shed a falsehood and adopt a truth that enhances my legitimacy to people whose opinions I value as well as my sense of self-worth. 

It's a GRM first?   The "Settle down or you're locked" thread gets locked!  

All of us are somewhat wrong. All of us are somewhat right.

No one is 100% right or wrong. Correct and Incorrect are a gradient, not a binary.

What makes for a positive discussion is being able to recognize that every position we hold is imperfect. That we can do better. That people who disagree with us will eventually present ideas that we haven't considered and should change our position, if only *slightly*. Being not-wholly-correct is completely normal and not something to get defensive about.

The things that lead most quickly to a discussion devolving:

1. Failing to recognize that your position is flawed.
2. Telling people what THEY believe (erroneously), instead of listening to and trying to understand them.
3. Repeating old arguments that the other party has heard numerous times, understands, and is still not persuaded by.

Toyman! said:

Tom Suddard said:

Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:

 I can think of at least two people who consistently lessen the forum with their attitudes. 

Are you sure it's still two people? 

We're not huge fans of announcing bans publicly. But emails (and bans) have been handed out. 

Runs off to check Email. 

Help me out, does that mean that you DID get an email?  Or did NOT?

All this E36 M3 makes me not want to come here anymore. I can get just as aggravated at work or on Facebook. 

Please make it stop. 

In reply to 1988RedT2 :

No email so I don't think they kicked me off the island. 

This time. 

Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Toyman! :

What Anthony doesn't get in his binary world is that most of us would rather be proven wrong than known as a purveyor of BS. I do not mind being proven wrong. That person has done me a favor, because every time that I shed a falsehood and adopt a truth that enhances my legitimacy to people whose opinions I value as well as my sense of self-worth. 

I'm sorry but I have to disagree here. Being on the "wrong end" of apparently thinking "wrong" here before and that's not the case. You will get shouted down for asking the wrong questions. There is a slant here, and it has gotten more pronounced over time. It is what it is and I know that this is no longer the place I can come and ask advice on certain topics because I don't think the right way. It's just the way it works. I learned my lesson, so I go elsewhere. Some topics it is an exaggerated echo chamber here, and that is just how it is going to be. 

Scotty Con Queso said:

I liked this forum more back when Steve Jones was the problem child. Then he turned out to be pretty darn cool and adhered by the rules.  

I came in to say I'm just glad I'm not the #1 shiny happy person anymore, but you beat me to it. I'm actually in the same area as our overlords at the moment. Here's to Seneca Lake. 

I blame Satan for the whole mess...

In reply to bobzilla :

In many instances, there are opinions that are more prevalent and supported here. Who cares. Opinions are like shiny happy people, everyone has one and most of them stink. You are welcome to espouse yours as long as you are reasonable in your speech and stay inside the rules of the forum. 

A large portion of this crowd, including the lady who started this thread, is probably center-left. If she wants to write a dissertation on Marx and how he was the smartest person in the world, she is welcome to do so. She owns this space. If she wants to launch Biden's next presidential campaign, she is welcome to do so. She owns this space. She is the Queen of this island. The rules don't have to be fair. They don't have to be equal. That's pretty much the end of that discussion. 

I'm an anarchist at heart but I'm still willing to play by her rules because this is her place and it's a pretty great place to hang out. So, maybe she's onto something. I'm certain I've bent the hell out of the rules over the past 15 years and gotten away with it, so it's not all one way and pretty even-handed. 

Anthony, I think that you and I share a lot of viewpoints. I am a married religious conservative straight white male. Abortion is murder. You can have my guns when you pry them from my cold, dead hands. Liberty or Death. No step on snek... etc..

None of this is why I made a GRM account. I don't discuss this here. I don't think that's why any of us are here. You might find less stress in your life if you stayed out of the off-topic discussion forums.

Don't leave the forum. You're still welcome to interact, as long as you can behave.

In reply to E_NinjA :

I meet half of your self description so we have 50% in common at least.

In reply to Stampie :

This! This is how we should see each other! Things in common. Not things that are different.